Why Cousins' contract hurts the team.

Danchat
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Why Cousins' contract hurts the team. May 18, 2020 16:28:11 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on May 18, 2020 16:28:11 GMT -6

May 18, 2020 12:41:45 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

May 18, 2020 12:01:48 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Recently (past 3-4 years) the Patriots have been rather bad at drafting, that is true. They've relied more on improving other teams' players and UDFAs to bolster their squad.

Foles was a big reason why they won the SB, but let's not forget that he had a great O-line, some quality weapons, and a good but not great defense.

In 2018, the only starting UDFAs were the center and FB. The majority of the team's starters were guys they drafted. So the best team in football in 2018 was made up primarily of players the Pats drafted, but they are not good at drafting? I don't understand that logic.

Foles was drafted by the Eagles...

Here's their 2018 lineup by starts:

While there are a lot of Patriots-drafted players here, most of them where taken in 2016 or earlier. Their 2016 class had Thuney and not much else, 2017 class came out with absolutely nothing, 2018 class looks very shaky, and their 2019 class started on the wrong foot.

The UDFAs I was referring to were not only Develin and Andrews, but also CBs Jonathan Jones & J. C. Jackson, and also DT Adam Butler. They were more of an impact in 2019, though.

To be honest I'm not exactly sure what we're arguing here, I just jumped in when I saw the bit about the Patriots. But I would conclude that their recent poor drafting is starting to bite them in the butt.

vikingpitbull
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Why Cousins' contract hurts the team. May 18, 2020 17:19:22 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on May 18, 2020 17:19:22 GMT -6

May 18, 2020 14:43:04 GMT -6 wivikesfan said:

May 18, 2020 12:41:45 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

In 2018, the only starting UDFAs were the center and FB. The majority of the team's starters were guys they drafted. So the best team in football in 2018 was made up primarily of players the Pats drafted, but they are not good at drafting? I don't understand that logic.

Foles was drafted by the Eagles...

So if it's the players they drafted, then the credit goes there vs the coach? Point is, BB can consistently get more out of his players than any other coach can. His coaching masks the drafting.

Who do you think does the Patriots drafting?

Last Edit: May 18, 2020 17:20:04 GMT -6 by vikingpitbull

wivikesfan
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Why Cousins' contract hurts the team. May 18, 2020 19:25:26 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by wivikesfan on May 18, 2020 19:25:26 GMT -6

May 18, 2020 17:19:22 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

May 18, 2020 14:43:04 GMT -6 wivikesfan said:

So if it's the players they drafted, then the credit goes there vs the coach? Point is, BB can consistently get more out of his players than any other coach can. His coaching masks the drafting.

Who do you think does the Patriots drafting?

Well BB is the de facto GM so...

Danchat
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Why Cousins' contract hurts the team. May 18, 2020 20:00:17 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on May 18, 2020 20:00:17 GMT -6

May 18, 2020 17:19:22 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Who do you think does the Patriots drafting?

May 18, 2020 19:25:26 GMT -6 wivikesfan said:

Well BB is the de facto GM so...

Patriots don't have a GM, and Belichick has had control over the draft and roster for as long as I can remember. Nick Caserio (director of player personnel) is considered to be his right hand man.

I think the Patriots struggling in the draft lately shows how much the draft is a crapshoot and how even the smartest can have bad drafts. But they can also cover up their weaknesses with great coaching... 2020 will be quite the test for Belichick with Brady out of the picture.

mikenessfan
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Why Cousins' contract hurts the team. May 18, 2020 23:34:29 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by mikenessfan on May 18, 2020 23:34:29 GMT -6

May 18, 2020 20:00:17 GMT -6 Danchat said:

May 18, 2020 17:19:22 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Who do you think does the Patriots drafting?

May 18, 2020 19:25:26 GMT -6 wivikesfan said:

Well BB is the de facto GM so...

Patriots don't have a GM, and Belichick has had control over the draft and roster for as long as I can remember. Nick Caserio (director of player personnel) is considered to be his right hand man.

I think the Patriots struggling in the draft lately shows how much the draft is a crapshoot and how even the smartest can have bad drafts. But they can also cover up their weaknesses with great coaching... 2020 will be quite the test for Belichick with Brady out of the picture.

Their still going to win 9 games this year. Watch. I think Buffalo wins their division, but bill belichick is still the cats meow of nfl hc ‘s.

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Why Cousins' contract hurts the team. May 19, 2020 2:25:21 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 2:25:21 GMT -6

May 18, 2020 20:00:17 GMT -6 Danchat said:

May 18, 2020 17:19:22 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Who do you think does the Patriots drafting?

May 18, 2020 19:25:26 GMT -6 wivikesfan said:

Well BB is the de facto GM so...

Patriots don't have a GM, and Belichick has had control over the draft and roster for as long as I can remember. Nick Caserio (director of player personnel) is considered to be his right hand man.

I think the Patriots struggling in the draft lately shows how much the draft is a crapshoot and how even the smartest can have bad drafts. But they can also cover up their weaknesses with great coaching... 2020 will be quite the test for Belichick with Brady out of the picture.

I think it is worth noting.... that they've lost a lot of front office and coaching guys to other teams..... Titans, Lions, etc....... it isn't like us where our GM and asst GM have been in place for close to a decade.......

huthuthike
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Why Cousins' contract hurts the team. May 19, 2020 5:52:01 GMT -6

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Post by huthuthike on May 19, 2020 5:52:01 GMT -6

May 18, 2020 14:50:57 GMT -6 vikingbill said:

May 18, 2020 12:21:36 GMT -6 huthuthike said:

I don't think they will win a SB with this combo. I've been a fan of this team since a superbowl loss. It's been a long, long, time. I've witnessed much better teams than this not do it so why would I think this question mark filled team pull it off?

I think 2009 was our best chance to win the SB

We clearly had the best team and the AFC was weak that year.

I agree with you. If you look at 98 season the Broncos could have been easily beaten also.

vikingbill
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Why Cousins' contract hurts the team. May 19, 2020 6:07:04 GMT -6

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Post by vikingbill on May 19, 2020 6:07:04 GMT -6

May 19, 2020 5:52:01 GMT -6 huthuthike said:

May 18, 2020 14:50:57 GMT -6 vikingbill said:

I think 2009 was our best chance to win the SB

We clearly had the best team and the AFC was weak that year.

I agree with you. If you look at 98 season the Broncos could have been easily beaten also.

I would have loved to see that matchup.

whoskmoon
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Why Cousins' contract hurts the team. May 19, 2020 6:51:42 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on May 19, 2020 6:51:42 GMT -6

May 18, 2020 16:28:11 GMT -6 Danchat said:

May 18, 2020 12:41:45 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

In 2018, the only starting UDFAs were the center and FB. The majority of the team's starters were guys they drafted. So the best team in football in 2018 was made up primarily of players the Pats drafted, but they are not good at drafting? I don't understand that logic.

Foles was drafted by the Eagles...

Here's their 2018 lineup by starts:

While there are a lot of Patriots-drafted players here, most of them where taken in 2016 or earlier. Their 2016 class had Thuney and not much else, 2017 class came out with absolutely nothing, 2018 class looks very shaky, and their 2019 class started on the wrong foot.

The UDFAs I was referring to were not only Develin and Andrews, but also CBs Jonathan Jones & J. C. Jackson, and also DT Adam Butler. They were more of an impact in 2019, though.

To be honest I'm not exactly sure what we're arguing here, I just jumped in when I saw the bit about the Patriots. But I would conclude that their recent poor drafting is starting to bite them in the butt.

Yes, a SB caliber roster is going to made up mostly 3 year or more vets. It is tough to make a roster that talented and it is not surprising that so few rookies and 2nd year guys cracked the starting lineup.

NE struggles to find receivers via the draft, but outside of that, they draft really well. If they didn't, they wouldn't have won 6 SBs over the past 2 decades.

That is what you jumped into btw, a guy saying that the greatest dynasty in the history of the NFL drafts poorly. Not a couple of bad drafts like you are talking about, but overall he thinks they draft poorly.

slapnut19
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Why Cousins' contract hurts the team. May 19, 2020 7:06:34 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by slapnut19 on May 19, 2020 7:06:34 GMT -6

May 19, 2020 6:51:42 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

May 18, 2020 16:28:11 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Here's their 2018 lineup by starts:

While there are a lot of Patriots-drafted players here, most of them where taken in 2016 or earlier. Their 2016 class had Thuney and not much else, 2017 class came out with absolutely nothing, 2018 class looks very shaky, and their 2019 class started on the wrong foot.

The UDFAs I was referring to were not only Develin and Andrews, but also CBs Jonathan Jones & J. C. Jackson, and also DT Adam Butler. They were more of an impact in 2019, though.

To be honest I'm not exactly sure what we're arguing here, I just jumped in when I saw the bit about the Patriots. But I would conclude that their recent poor drafting is starting to bite them in the butt.

Yes, a SB caliber roster is going to made up mostly 3 year or more vets. It is tough to make a roster that talented and it is not surprising that so few rookies and 2nd year guys cracked the starting lineup.

NE struggles to find receivers via the draft, but outside of that, they draft really well. If they didn't, they wouldn't have won 6 SBs over the past 2 decades.

That is what you jumped into btw, a guy saying that the greatest dynasty in the history of the NFL drafts poorly. Not a couple of bad drafts like you are talking about, but overall he thinks they draft poorly.

drafting well is subjective. They have had plenty of misses but they are great at finding guys in the mid rounds who fit their scheme and coaching them up to be pretty good players. Look around at how many of their players get huge 2nd contracts in free agency

vikingpitbull
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Why Cousins' contract hurts the team. May 19, 2020 7:57:19 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on May 19, 2020 7:57:19 GMT -6

My last thought on the Patriots because it's just a silly argument to think we are even close in any way.

Some of our homer fans tell us day in day out how great everyone and everything has been from the GM HC drafts FA signings undrafted rookies yet scoff at the Patriots. They had 13 wins last year and sucked we had 10 and where great.

This is the crap that fans that want the Vikings to be the Patriots can't understand. Much of our fan base has been beaten into paper champions and trophies for all crowd. The others are just whining and b*tching.

I guess when we actually start doing the winning and have important and relevant stats to show then things will reverse course. The people that like to lose and praise it like winners will be the whiners and bitchers and the people that didn't like to lose will be happy and defend winning vs sucking. Kinda odd.

Last Edit: May 19, 2020 10:03:28 GMT -6 by vikingpitbull

vikingpitbull
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Why Cousins' contract hurts the team. May 19, 2020 8:00:56 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on May 19, 2020 8:00:56 GMT -6

May 19, 2020 7:06:34 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

May 19, 2020 6:51:42 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Yes, a SB caliber roster is going to made up mostly 3 year or more vets. It is tough to make a roster that talented and it is not surprising that so few rookies and 2nd year guys cracked the starting lineup.

NE struggles to find receivers via the draft, but outside of that, they draft really well. If they didn't, they wouldn't have won 6 SBs over the past 2 decades.

That is what you jumped into btw, a guy saying that the greatest dynasty in the history of the NFL drafts poorly. Not a couple of bad drafts like you are talking about, but overall he thinks they draft poorly.

drafting well is subjective. They have had plenty of misses but they are great at finding guys in the mid rounds who fit their scheme and coaching them up to be pretty good players. Look around at how many of their players get huge 2nd contracts in free agency

It sure is and 1 way to tell is if you're a team that continues to win. It's much harder for players to stick if you have people that work. When you don't you will keep what you have hoping.

A huge difference is BB moves on Rick holds on.

slapnut19
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Why Cousins' contract hurts the team. May 19, 2020 8:01:48 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by slapnut19 on May 19, 2020 8:01:48 GMT -6

May 19, 2020 7:57:19 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

My last thought on the Patriots because it's just a silly argument to think we are even close in any way.

Some of our homer fans tell us day in day how great everyone and everything has been from the GM HC drafts FA signings undrafted rookies yet scoff at the Patriots. They had 13 wins last year and sucked we had 10 and where great.

This is the crap that fans that want the Vikings to be the Patriots can't understand. Much of our fan base has been beaten into paper champions and trophies for all crowd. The others are just whining and b*tching.

I guess when we actually start doing the winning and have important and relevant stats to show then things will reverse course. The people that like to lose and praise it like winners will be the whiners and bitchers and the people that didn't like to lose will be happy and defend winning vs sucking. Kinda odd.

patriots always have a solid roster but have had the luxury of having a hall of fame qb. Vikings have had a very good roster since 2015 but had different signal callers every year from 2015 to 2018.

slapnut19
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Why Cousins' contract hurts the team. May 19, 2020 8:02:32 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by slapnut19 on May 19, 2020 8:02:32 GMT -6

May 19, 2020 8:00:56 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

May 19, 2020 7:06:34 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

drafting well is subjective. They have had plenty of misses but they are great at finding guys in the mid rounds who fit their scheme and coaching them up to be pretty good players. Look around at how many of their players get huge 2nd contracts in free agency

It sure is and 1 way to tell is if you're a team that continues to win. It's much harder for players to stick if you have people that work. When you don't you will keep what you have hoping.

A huge difference is BB moves on Rick holds on.

Like he held on to waynes and alexander?

vikingpitbull
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Why Cousins' contract hurts the team. May 19, 2020 8:05:57 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on May 19, 2020 8:05:57 GMT -6

May 19, 2020 8:01:48 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

May 19, 2020 7:57:19 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

My last thought on the Patriots because it's just a silly argument to think we are even close in any way.

Some of our homer fans tell us day in day how great everyone and everything has been from the GM HC drafts FA signings undrafted rookies yet scoff at the Patriots. They had 13 wins last year and sucked we had 10 and where great.

This is the crap that fans that want the Vikings to be the Patriots can't understand. Much of our fan base has been beaten into paper champions and trophies for all crowd. The others are just whining and b*tching.

I guess when we actually start doing the winning and have important and relevant stats to show then things will reverse course. The people that like to lose and praise it like winners will be the whiners and bitchers and the people that didn't like to lose will be happy and defend winning vs sucking. Kinda odd.

patriots always have a solid roster but have had the luxury of having a hall of fame qb. Vikings have had a very good roster since 2015 but had different signal callers every year from 2015 to 2018.

And you just went into the proverbial hole. You cant fault a team for getting a draft pick that works out and then make excuses for the other.