Who is QB2?

I would guess it would be Sloter. I think they brought in Mannion to just compete and keep Sloter honest with his work. At least I hope that is the situation!

Thanks.  Looks like we're victims of an unfortunate coincidental sequence of posts.     My bad as well.  

This is incorrect, we have two years of control of Sloter. In 2020, Sloter will be a RFA (Restricted Free Agent). Virtually all RFAs that are tendered return to their teams, so it's hardly considered becoming a free agent. The Vikings will have the option of giving him an original round tender, or a 2nd or 1st round tender. It's possible they lose him on an original round tender (the claiming team owes the Vikings nothing since he was a UDFA) but if they really want him around, they could give him a higher tender.

We'll know soon enough. If he isn't QB2 this season, he'll be gone and it'll be a mutual decision. There's no reason for the Vikings to continue to stash him if he's QB3 in their eyes. Time will tell!

This was before we were besties, so who did you want that draft? What'd you think of Ponder at the beginning? How did that opinion evolve for you?

It's like you don't know me at all xD. I doubt I even followed the draft back then. I'm not an offseason kinda guy if you haven't noticed. I trusted the people who made 7-8 figures a year to figure out who the best players were for their system, and I'm slowly learning they're not much better than people who do it for fun in their free time.

I was actually excited about the Ponder era to begin after McFlop threw for 39 yards in the 2011 season opener at San Diego already. It was good times when he finally got his chance in Chicago week 6, and his first start against Green Bay the following week. His first pass, a 72 yard dime to Jenkins was a thing of beauty, and I was like, finally we found a QB. But the honeymoon didn't last long. I began seeing all the problems, but chalked it up to him being a rookie. I was still excited going into 2012 with him having a whole offseason as "the guy", but that didn't last long either. There are only so many sub 100 games you can stomach before you see the writing on the wall. A decent franchise QB, the ones who do end up being great don't typically get off to such lousy starts. Sure even the greats struggle early sometimes, but they tend to show you glimpses of their potential once in awhile, but Ponder never did. The same is true of Teddy. They never gave you those moments. I don't expect a young QB to be HoF material right out of the gate, but cheese and rice at least show some potential or progress. That's all I ask.

I didn't go looking for Ponders pre draft scouting reports until after I became discouraged. That's when I began scratching my head. There's nothing in that scouting report that justified taking him 12th overall. Not IMO anyway.

I went through the same process with Teddy. I was cautiously excited about the pick, couldn't wait for his era to begin, and I rooted for him from the get go, but once again it didn't take long for me to realize he wasn't the answer. And as I did with Ponder, I went back to look at his pre draft scouting report where I saw red flags all over the place. The most obvious being how he was all wrong for our team and Norvs system. I just couldn't believe these experts could botch something so obvious. This is why they're paid all that money isn't it? Teddy, slow reads, weak arm, inaccurate deep ball, more comfortable from the shotgun. Norv runs the Air Coryell, a more vertical passing attack, and we have a HoF RB who prefers the QB under center. Nothing about the Teddy pick made sense for our team at the time. Meanwhile Derek Carr was still on the board and his skill set seemed to match the Vikings system a little better. Only took me a minute to figure all that out, something our front office spent months on.

Unfortunately I don't have the patience to go through every prospect before the draft, and I don't follow college football at all. I can't stand any of it. I'm a results/evidence based person and the offseason is all guess work lol. It's a nightmare scenario for my OCD and sanity. So the best I can do is wait to see who we pick and then complain about it lol. I give the player his fair chance and if I don't see results, I get out my pitch fork and torch.

I admire all the work Danchat Mondry Minniman NoresemanSam ocampo82 diehardtwinsfan Raptorman @keeniac and others do in the offseason and with the draft however because without the info they post I wouldn't know squat about the offseason or draft until preseason or opening day lol. At least they seem to enjoy it and that makes it more enjoyable for me too. Otherwise I normally disappear around this time of year. I don't have a TV, and I don't go to any of the big sites to see what's going on. These guys are more interesting and they seem to be right just as often as the "experts". Mel Kiper is a fraud and Danchat should have his job, but then I'd be obligated to hate him because he'd be working for my mortal enemy xD.

So what was the question? What QB would I have taken in the 2011 draft? I don't know, I never read any of the scouting reports or watched any film like I'm sure the Vikings FO did. I would have taken someone who fit Musgraves tiny playcard system. A west coast offense if I remember correctly. Man who the eff hired a WCO coordinator for that team? Now you're getting me to go off on this whole other tangent xD. The WCO was all wrong for a back like Peterson. And when I say all wrong, I mean it couldn't have been more wrong. And then we draft a QB like Ponder who was also all wrong for the WCO. Ugh!!! An offense predicated on the RB being productive in the pass game and a QB who can make quick accurate passes. Wrong wrong wrong!!

I think there are a number of reasons why professional NFL scouts that work on NFL teams still have such a hard time predicting who will be good in the NFL.  It's particularly bad at the QB position of course.  As you said it didn't take a genius to see Teddy was a bad fit for Norv's offense or what kind of limitations Peterson put on our offense and yet these factors were obviously ignored.  

Some of it has to do with how the whole system is designed.  There is too much to do in too little time so Spielman delegates work out to what I'll call scout leaders and he tells the scout leaders what he's looking for in a prospect at whatever position.  The scout leaders then tell the guys under them and everyone starts watching film.  The younger scouts report to their superiors what they find and the superiors report to Spielman.  But each guy may see things slightly different or have an unrefined process.  With a QB, I could chart a throw as generally accurate (the WR had to slow down or make an adjustment to the ball) as opposed to pinpoint accurate (the WR caught the ball in stride and maintained full speed).  But my scout leader sees it as pin point accuracy and I'm over ruled or even scarier my scout leader may not even differentiate between general accuracy and pinpoint accuracy.  

The old guard has a lot of sway in the NFL.  Most of these teams are owned by old rich white dudes who may not keep up with the times.  If I don't like Josh Allen but the owner wants him to be the pick, guess who we're taking?

I think as the process goes on, people tend to pay less and less attention to the game film and more and more on the combine numbers, the pro days, and the scripted workouts in shorts.  Ponder was reported to be a god in these types of work outs but we all know how little that translated to the field.   I think GM's also tend to get the idea that this guy -COULD- develop into an elite player and don't fully understand that it's very unlikely.  Yes Patterson COULD suddenly learn how to do all the things required to be a good WR and when you combine that with his physical ability it's obviously exciting but the reality is it was never going to happen.  It's kind of like when you buy that power ball ticket, sure you could win millions and until you lost there was always that possibility but the reality is you had almost zero chance.  

When I watch film and study prospects, I'm looking for as many things as possible that they ALREADY DO WELL that I think are important to NFL success.  If a guy has too many holes in his game he's not going to get a good grade from me.  Could he buck the norm and make me look foolish?  Of course, but that happens so rarely that I can handle being wrong that one time if the other nine times it works in my favor.  

It's easier for me to do that because I don't have to answer to anyone.  Mel Kiper and those guys get a lot of money to hype certain players and tow the company line.  It's good for their ratings because the biggest, fastest, freakiest athletes pull in the most attention.     

I think we're seeing some of the politics that goes on now with Slotter.  Is he the guy or is he not the guy?  Did Spielman decide he doesn't like him but the coordinators do?  etc.