Offensive Problems Stefanski Must Solve As OC In 2019

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Offensive Problems Stefanski Must Solve As OC In 2019 Aug 29, 2019 2:27:04 GMT -6

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Post by Reignman on Aug 29, 2019 2:27:04 GMT -6

Aug 18, 2019 17:15:29 GMT -6 Purple Pain said:

Look, Zim, buddy, we need to talk about the basics of football. You had 4 more losses last year than in 2017. That means your opponent was running more often to grind out the clock on you, because running keeps the clock moving, not like those pesky incompletions. Your defense was on the field for only 37 more plays in 2018 over 2017, which is only about 2 plays per game. Well you can't run 4 minutes off the clock on just 2 plays, so whatever could it be? Oh right, your opponents ran 76 more runs on you than in 2017 because of all the losing. You can solve that easily by having the lead more often in the 4th quarter here in 2019. *thumb_up*

Aug 21, 2019 11:53:03 GMT -6 Purple Pain said:

That's very bad news indeed. Based on all the AIR vs YAC research I'm doing, depth of target is very important when it comes to overall average gain on pass plays. So unless Kubiak plans to have these RB's run 8-10 yard patterns, we could have a very frustrating pass offense. That strategy doesn't make much sense anyway when you have Diggs, Thielen, Rudolph, and now Irv, but it would be the Vikings M.O. ... to go away from their own strengths to do something that has been proven not to work. I swear this franchise is clueless when it comes to what's working in the NFL and always trying to go back in time to find something that worked in another era. But hey, at least we finally shook off that 1970's run first mentality am-I-right?!

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,655 Likes: 31,578 Fan Since: 1998 Member is Online	Offensive Problems Stefanski Must Solve As OC In 2019 Aug 29, 2019 16:55:11 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Aug 29, 2019 16:55:11 GMT -6 Preseason talk:

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,655 Likes: 31,578 Fan Since: 1998 Member is Online	Offensive Problems Stefanski Must Solve As OC In 2019 Aug 30, 2019 9:42:14 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Aug 30, 2019 9:42:14 GMT -6 Interesting tid I found, wasn't sure where to put it:

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Offensive Problems Stefanski Must Solve As OC In 2019 Sept 2, 2019 22:05:56 GMT -6

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Post by Funkytown on Sept 2, 2019 22:05:56 GMT -6

Some gems from Zimmer in here:

On this year’s offensive coaching staff:

Zimmer assured a like-minded offensive staff when he promoted Kevin Stefanski to coordinator and hired Gary Kubiak as assistant head coach/offensive consultant. Longtime Kubiak cohort Rick Dennison was a package deal as line coach and run-game coordinator.

“I understand preseason is preseason but when I’m on the headphones with the offense during the game, and I’m listening to the communication between Kevin and Gary and sometimes Dennison, it’s just like music to my ears. It’s like, ‘Man, the collaboration with these guys is outstanding.’ Kevin might want to run a play and Gary will say, ‘No, I don’t like that one.’ So [Stefanski] calls something else. And Gary might suggest something and Kevin will say, ‘I’m really thinking about doing that later one so I’m calling this.’ The communication between those guys and even when they installed the system and went through every little detail, it’s just been really good. … I’m sure there are going to be some hiccups, but at least we have ways of guys to play fast. Not thinking too much and sitting there at the line of scrimmage and making checks and doing this and doing that. Just get up there and, ‘Let’s go, baby.’ ”

• • •

On what led him to Kubiak:

“I didn’t know Gary really well. I had heard from somebody that he said, ‘I’d really like to coach with Zim.’ [Zimmer wouldn’t say who]. And so that kind of got my ears perking a little bit. … I don’t think I’ve ever beaten him, but I always knew that that scheme was very, very difficult.”

• • •

On what gives the Vikings so much faith in Kirk Cousins, whose career record is 34-38-2, including 0-1 in the playoffs:

“The biggest thing we felt like he was a very talented guy. He can throw the football. Good athlete. Really accurate. We felt like defensively we could help him. I went and saw him right after we signed him. He said, ‘What do you want me to do?’ I said, ‘I want you to be yourself. We have a good team around you. You don’t need to do anything crazy special. All you have to do is be yourself and that will be good enough for us.’ If we can play complementary football, I think that will play to his strengths. … I just feel we got away from [our identity] last year. … At New England [13 runs, 44 passes], we were averaging like 8 yards a carry. And we were throwing the heck out of the ball. And they’re up there in a three-down front with eight guys standing on the line of scrimmage trying to pressure us every snap because they knew we wouldn’t stick to the run.”

Oh, and more about JDF, just for fun:

On what made him think he and John DeFilippo actually could coexist last season:

The run-first coach fired his pass-heavy new coordinator 13 games into a disappointing season.

“I don’t really want to talk about him. I felt like he was a good coach. He is a good coach. I thought that would be a good fit when we decided to do it. But it just didn’t turn out that well. I hope he does good. I really do. I guess I wasn’t good enough in stressing how we win here, I guess is the best way to say it. And, in fairness to John, Tony [Sparano, the line coach who died on the eve of last year’s training camp,] was a good sounding board to me, and he was a good sounding board to John as far as knowing the things I wanted.”

Link: www.startribune.com/vikings-season-preview-week-day-3/558349152/?refresh=true

Last Edit: Sept 2, 2019 22:06:32 GMT -6 by Funkytown

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Offensive Problems Stefanski Must Solve As OC In 2019 Sept 3, 2019 11:55:12 GMT -6 Reignman and Purple Pain like this

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Post by mikegreitzer on Sept 3, 2019 11:55:12 GMT -6

Stefanski had a month to prepare for a Bears team at the end of 2018. At home, Vikings O stunk up the joint.

I want to see him beat the Bears. He's been around this team forever. Show some talent--

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Offensive Problems Stefanski Must Solve As OC In 2019 Sept 3, 2019 22:10:08 GMT -6

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Post by Reignman on Sept 3, 2019 22:10:08 GMT -6

Preseason receiving breakdown. We definitely got all those TE's involved.

    TGT REC  YDS  LG TD
TE   43  32  322  34  1
WR   42  30  319  34  2
RB   12   9   90  45  2
FB   10   8   68  20  2

Not sure if I like it. It reeks of old school, and that generally doesn't work out too well. I would hope Diggs and Thielen were more involved on offense than our TE's in the regular season.

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

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Offensive Problems Stefanski Must Solve As OC In 2019 Sept 10, 2019 20:14:32 GMT -6

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Post by Purple Pain on Sept 10, 2019 20:14:32 GMT -6

FiveThirtyEight: The Vikings Are Running Like It’s 1972 by Michael Salfino

The Minnesota Vikings said this offseason that they were going to get Kirk Cousins, their $84 million quarterback, “to that next level to do the things he does best.” Based on the game plans the team has run since overhauling its offense December — especially in Sunday’s 28-12 victory over the Falcons — the thing he does best is apparently handing the ball off to a running back.

Cousins threw only 10 passes all game, completing eight, good for 98 yards and a touchdown. That’s the fewest passes a Vikings quarterback has attempted in a regular-season win since 1977, in a game at Green Bay where the wind chill made it feel like it was minus 3 degrees. But Sunday’s game was played indoors. Since 2001, according to ESPN’s Stats & Information Group, only one winning team has attempted fewer passes while playing indoors — the visiting Carolina Panthers at the Atlanta Falcons in a 10-3 victory in 2006. The Atlanta Falcons had the next fewest passes in an indoor home win, throwing 13 times in a 34-21 victory in 2008 — Matt Ryan’s first game his rookie season.

Cousins, of course, is no rookie. He’s 31 and in his eighth season. Yet he’s being treated like a game manager by his head coach, Mike Zimmer, who fired pass-happy offensive coordinator John DeFilippo last December after DeFilippo dialed up pass plays at a rate of 67.0 percent overall and 57.3 percent in wins. DeFilippo also reportedly ignored repeated instructions from Zimmer to run more. That message was received by new offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski: 1 In Minnesota’s three wins (in four games) since the firing, the Vikings have looked to throw just 37.6 percent of the time, 2 including just 22.4 percent versus the Falcons this week.

This is a radical departure in today’s game. From the start of the 2018 season through Week 1 of the 2019 season, winning NFL teams pass a majority of the time: 52.6 percent, according to ESPN Stats & Info.

Don’t expect Zimmer’s Vikings to change their approach anytime soon. “I did not foresee us throwing the ball 10 times, but I’m happy we did,” Zimmer said after the game.

Cousins doesn’t seem to mind.

“Throwing 10 times is really unique,” the quarterback said. “Probably haven’t had a game with that few attempts since literally Pop Warner. I probably threw 10 times or more in most high school games, too. It was what the game called for, and I have no problem with being conservative. As long as we win the football game, that’s all that matters to me.”

The Vikings and Stefanski adopted what is ostensibly a Mike Shanahan-inspired offense, bringing in former Shanahan disciple Gary Kubiak as an assistant head coach. But in reality, Zimmer may be looking even further back for inspiration, to the NFL’s last undefeated team 3 — the 1972 Dolphins. Miami that year passed only 32.3 percent of the time. But the NFL then was all about establishing the run, running to win and then running to beat the clock — the Bears that year called pass plays just 17.5 percent of the time in their wins. The leaguewide passing average in 1972 was 37.2 percent, or almost identical to what Zimmer’s squad has averaged since jettisoning DeFilippo.

Link: fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-vikings-are-running-like-its-1972

Last Edit: Sept 10, 2019 20:15:00 GMT -6 by Purple Pain

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Offensive Problems Stefanski Must Solve As OC In 2019 Sept 11, 2019 21:29:59 GMT -6

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Post by PurpleKoolaid on Sept 11, 2019 21:29:59 GMT -6

Anyone else underwhelmed by the Vikings pass protection? I wonder if thats why Cousins only threw 10 times. Because the Oline still sucks in that regard. in fact, it wouldnt surprise me at all if someone replaces Elf very soon. He may be a worse guard than Center.

I know we can run the ball, and thats great to see. It should help with pass protection in the long run.

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Offensive Problems Stefanski Must Solve As OC In 2019 Sept 11, 2019 21:57:58 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

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Post by Oracle Bone Diviner on Sept 11, 2019 21:57:58 GMT -6

Sept 10, 2019 20:14:32 GMT -6 Purple Pain said:

FiveThirtyEight: The Vikings Are Running Like It’s 1972 by Michael Salfino

The Minnesota Vikings said this offseason that they were going to get Kirk Cousins, their $84 million quarterback, “to that next level to do the things he does best.” Based on the game plans the team has run since overhauling its offense December — especially in Sunday’s 28-12 victory over the Falcons — the thing he does best is apparently handing the ball off to a running back.

Cousins threw only 10 passes all game, completing eight, good for 98 yards and a touchdown. That’s the fewest passes a Vikings quarterback has attempted in a regular-season win since 1977, in a game at Green Bay where the wind chill made it feel like it was minus 3 degrees. But Sunday’s game was played indoors. Since 2001, according to ESPN’s Stats & Information Group, only one winning team has attempted fewer passes while playing indoors — the visiting Carolina Panthers at the Atlanta Falcons in a 10-3 victory in 2006. The Atlanta Falcons had the next fewest passes in an indoor home win, throwing 13 times in a 34-21 victory in 2008 — Matt Ryan’s first game his rookie season.

Cousins, of course, is no rookie. He’s 31 and in his eighth season. Yet he’s being treated like a game manager by his head coach, Mike Zimmer, who fired pass-happy offensive coordinator John DeFilippo last December after DeFilippo dialed up pass plays at a rate of 67.0 percent overall and 57.3 percent in wins. DeFilippo also reportedly ignored repeated instructions from Zimmer to run more. That message was received by new offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski: 1 In Minnesota’s three wins (in four games) since the firing, the Vikings have looked to throw just 37.6 percent of the time, 2 including just 22.4 percent versus the Falcons this week.

This is a radical departure in today’s game. From the start of the 2018 season through Week 1 of the 2019 season, winning NFL teams pass a majority of the time: 52.6 percent, according to ESPN Stats & Info.

Don’t expect Zimmer’s Vikings to change their approach anytime soon. “I did not foresee us throwing the ball 10 times, but I’m happy we did,” Zimmer said after the game.

Cousins doesn’t seem to mind.

“Throwing 10 times is really unique,” the quarterback said. “Probably haven’t had a game with that few attempts since literally Pop Warner. I probably threw 10 times or more in most high school games, too. It was what the game called for, and I have no problem with being conservative. As long as we win the football game, that’s all that matters to me.”

The Vikings and Stefanski adopted what is ostensibly a Mike Shanahan-inspired offense, bringing in former Shanahan disciple Gary Kubiak as an assistant head coach. But in reality, Zimmer may be looking even further back for inspiration, to the NFL’s last undefeated team 3 — the 1972 Dolphins. Miami that year passed only 32.3 percent of the time. But the NFL then was all about establishing the run, running to win and then running to beat the clock — the Bears that year called pass plays just 17.5 percent of the time in their wins. The leaguewide passing average in 1972 was 37.2 percent, or almost identical to what Zimmer’s squad has averaged since jettisoning DeFilippo.

Link: fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-vikings-are-running-like-its-1972

Frightening stuff.

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Offensive Problems Stefanski Must Solve As OC In 2019 Sept 12, 2019 5:34:26 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Sept 12, 2019 5:34:26 GMT -6

I don't know if being treated like a game manager is a fair statement at all. The mix was in the normal category until the score hit 28-0. I certainly think they could have thrown it a bit more, but we aren't talking about something that has ever been out of character for Zimmer coached teams.

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Offensive Problems Stefanski Must Solve As OC In 2019 Sept 12, 2019 6:59:14 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Sept 12, 2019 6:59:14 GMT -6

Sept 12, 2019 5:34:26 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

I don't know if being treated like a game manager is a fair statement at all. The mix was in the normal category until the score hit 28-0. I certainly think they could have thrown it a bit more, but we aren't talking about something that has ever been out of character for Zimmer coached teams.

Cousins has been asked to carry an offense his entire career, and I don't think he is suited to be that type of QB. The guy could be a great game manager in the Alex Smith mold, he just has been asked to do too much and his teams have paid for it.

The Vikings will limit his throws, his YPA and completion percentage will go up, he will throw for the fewest yards of his career, but also turn the ball over the fewest times of his career and win the most games.

You won't want him on your fantasy team, but that is how you win with Cousins.

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Offensive Problems Stefanski Must Solve As OC In 2019 Sept 12, 2019 12:19:12 GMT -6

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Post by mansquatch on Sept 12, 2019 12:19:12 GMT -6

That 538 article is obnoxious. They did win three of those 4 games... As the NE/SEA games showed, JDF's pass/run play calling ratio wasn't doing a whole lot in terms of getting us wins. The article also ignores flow of the game. The recent ATL game in particular completely justified the run pass ratio we saw. It was a blow out and in the first half the Falcons were not doing a good job of stopping our runs. Going into the 4Q with a 28-0 lead made it obvious that we should run prevent and rush on offense to chew the clock, which is exactly what we did. Harp on the ratio all you want, we won the game convincingly.

I would argue that the sample size and logic used by the article is quite weak. An obvious flaw in their implied conclusion about the Vikings style in 2019: Kubiak and Dennison were not on the coaching staff for the three games in 2018. Extrapolating a conclusion based on those 4 games is unreasonable since it isn't an Apples to Apples comparison across 75% of the data sample. The article attempts to obfuscate this flaw by making it more about Zimmer since he is a constant. However, if you have paid attention to Zimmer since 2015, one obvious trend is that he delegates a lot (if not all) of the offense to the offensive coaching staff. In order to buy the 538 conclusion you also have to buy that Zimmer is now heavily asserting himself on offense as well as Defense. The tone of Zimmer's comments thus far do not indicate that level of control. (This would be a conversion to a Brad Childress level control freak) Where is the evidence to justify this assumption? 538 never presents it, but moves to it's conclusion as if it is an established fact.

IMO, a better statistical approach would be to extrapolate based on 2019 games only since that would be a more apples to apples comparison given the consistency of the offensive coaching staff and the current management structure. This is where sample size comes into play, one blow out game where the outcome was never in doubt does not equal sufficient evidence to extrapolate any conclusions on how the Purple will call games over the rest of the season. (Emphasis is my own)

538's article feels like a case where they had a conclusion in mind and then tried to find evidence to support it vs. a more deductive approach. The analysis and conclusion are, IMO, superficial and not fully supported by the data given the flaws I identified above. Since stats is 538's thing, I'm guessing they understand sample size. So why miss or ignore the flaws about the coaching situation? IMO it shows a lack of depth and critical thinking about their subject matter and implies that perhaps as readers we should be skeptical of their analysis.

Last Edit: Sept 12, 2019 12:24:44 GMT -6 by mansquatch

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Offensive Problems Stefanski Must Solve As OC In 2019 Sept 12, 2019 12:22:55 GMT -6

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Post by spence on Sept 12, 2019 12:22:55 GMT -6

Sept 12, 2019 12:19:12 GMT -6 mansquatch said:

That 538 article is obnoxious. They did win three of those 4 games... As the NE/SEA games showed, JDF's pass/run play calling ratio wasn't doing a whole lot in terms of getting us wins. The article also ignores flow of the game. The recent ATL game in particular completely justified the run pass ratio we saw. It was a blow out and in the first half the Falcons were not doing a good job of stopping our runs. Going into the 4Q with a 28-0 lead made it obvious that we should run prevent and rush on offense to chew the clock, which is exactly what we did. Harp on the ratio all you want, we won the game convincingly.

I would argue that the sample size and logic used by the article is quite weak. An obvious flaw in their implied conclusion about the Vikings style in 2019: Kubiak and Dennison were not on the coaching staff for the three games last season. Extrapolating a conclusion based on those 4 games is unreasonable since it isn't an Apples to Apples comparison across 75% of the data sample. The article attempts to obfuscate this flaw by making it more about Zimmer since he is a constant. However, if you have paid attention to Zimmer since 2015, one obvious trend is that he delegates a lot of the offense to the offensive coaching staff. In order to buy the 538 conclusion you also have to buy that Zimmer is now heavily asserting himself on offense as well as Defense. The tone of Zimmer's comments thus far do not indicate that level of control. (This would be a conversion to a Brad Childress level control freak) Where is the evidence to justify this assumption? 538 never presents it, but moves to it's conclusion as if it is an accepted fact.

IMO, a better statistical approach would be to extrapolate based on 2019 games only since that would be a more apples to apples comparison given the consistency of the offensive coaching staff and the current management structure. This is where sample size comes into play, one blow out game where the outcome was never in doubt does not equal sufficient evidence to extrapolate any conclusions on how the Purple will call games over the rest of the season. (Emphasis is my own)

538's article feels like a case where they had a conclusion and then tried to find evidence to support it vs. a more deductive approach. The analysis and conclusion are, IMO, superficial and not fully supported by the data given the flaws I identified above. Give that stats is 538's thing, I'm guessing they understand sample size. So why miss or ignore the flaws about the coaching situation? IMO it shows a lack of critical thinking about their subject matter and indicates that as readers maybe we should be skeptical about their supposed expertise.

I agree. I think sometimes 538 overdoes the statistic thing and it leads to some strange conclusions.

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Purple Pain Hall of Fame Nominee Posts: 8,733 Likes: 2,877	Offensive Problems Stefanski Must Solve As OC In 2019 Sept 13, 2019 14:26:55 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Purple Pain on Sept 13, 2019 14:26:55 GMT -6

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Offensive Problems Stefanski Must Solve As OC In 2019 Sept 23, 2019 17:52:36 GMT -6

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Post by Purple Pain on Sept 23, 2019 17:52:36 GMT -6

Kirk Cousins lauded Rick Dennison and Gary Kubiak for creating effective game plans that have allowed the Vikings to establish and consistently maintain a dominant run game, which is a credit to the outside zone scheme those two brought with them to Minnesota: "When you get a really good scheme and you have a really good (running) back, that can be a really good marriage to have an effective run game."

Courtney Cronin, ESPN Staff Writer

The Vikings have averaged 193.7 rush yards per game this season but Sunday was the first time Kirk Cousins was able to take full advantage in the passing game. Cousins went 7-of-9 for 107 yards and a TD of play-action Sunday. He went 8-of-15 for 72 yards and 0 TD on those plays the first 2 games, per ESPN Stats and Info.

Courtney Cronin, ESPN Staff Writer

The Vikings and the Colts were the only two teams in the NFL with more rushing yards than passing yards. The uniqueness of that in today's league predicated on passing isn't lost on Vikings players but rather realized and appreciated based on Mike Zimmer's mentality: "It’s part of our head coaches identity," Dalvin Cook said. "That comes with the old school rules. We know the type of defense we’ve got, if we can keep this thing close and keep this thing manageable for us to go win the football game, that’s part of running the football and taking big shots and making plays and just converting. That’s what Zim likes to do . I like it, if that’s what Zimmer likes to do."

Courtney Cronin, ESPN Staff Writer