Diggs Contract Extended: 5-year, $72 Million

Danchat
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Diggs Contract Extended: 5-year, $72 Million Jul 31, 2018 18:19:54 GMT -6 Reignman, Funkytown, and 1 more like this

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Post by Danchat on Jul 31, 2018 18:19:54 GMT -6

Just gotta say this - I'm surprised the Vikings have been able to lock up so many of their upcoming free agents. I'm impressed with the Vikings' ability to get the players to buy into the team and sign reasonable deals. Spielman and Brzezinski have done a fantastic job balancing the cap and getting great players into this building. Zimmer's defense has proven to be a big hit and the defensive players seem to have no interest in leaving - even adversity (the controversial coverage changes in the Packers 2016 game) hasn't broken this team up. For a comparison, check out how many free agents left the Patriots have lost this season - it includes their starting HB, franchise LT, and lockdown #1 CB!

I think we'll be looking back at this stretch in 8-10 years and wishing we could be here again. There seems to be a level of competence from the coaches to the front office to the owners. It's something a lot of professional sports teams would envy, that's for sure. This team is loaded and the championship window is open - in my opinion the front office has done their job and it's up to the players and coaches to go out there and win it all.

I still have my doubts that the Vikings can win the Super Bowl with this team... but they're giving it their best shot. I wish the season would just start now so we could get to winning some ball games and not have to worry about any guys getting injured...

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Diggs Contract Extended: 5-year, $72 Million Jul 31, 2018 18:25:11 GMT -6

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Post by Reignman on Jul 31, 2018 18:25:11 GMT -6

Jul 31, 2018 18:08:18 GMT -6 Purple Pain said:

Something Tim made a while ago:

Yikes! The problem here however is the same argument with QB's. AC played in an era where it was much more difficult to pass and catch. That was 30 years ago.

Per game passing averages those years:

YEARS   CMP    ATT    PCT   YPG    AVG   TD    PCT   INT   PCT  RATING
85-87  17.72  32.21  55.0  225.3  7.00  1.36  4.20  1.31  4.07   74.1
15-17  22.08  35.21  62.7  251.5  7.14  1.54  4.40  0.83  2.37   88.9

AC and Diggs are also completely different receivers. Diggs is more of a possession guy like Cris Carter and AC was a burner like Moss. Which is why the average per catch is so vastly different.

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

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Diggs Contract Extended: 5-year, $72 Million Jul 31, 2018 18:38:24 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by VikingsBoss on Jul 31, 2018 18:38:24 GMT -6

Jul 31, 2018 10:58:09 GMT -6 Purple Pain said:

Just for VikingsBoss, because he loves these reminders:

Of course he's elite, that's why his extension pays him $4.8 million per career touchdown. $5.8 million per career yard per catch.
Julio Jones AVERAGE SEASON
83 receptions
1293 yards at 15.5 per catch
Granted, just over 6 TDs per year, but one of these seasons he played only 5 games

A.J. Green AVERAGE SEASON
80 receptions
1173 yards at 14.8 per catch
8 TDs

Stefon Diggs AVERAGE SEASON
66.3 receptions
824 yards at 12.4 per catch
5 TDs

The guy in the NFL whose stats look the most like Stefon Diggs to me is Jamison Crowder. You want to pay Jamison Crowder $14.4 million per year the next five years? Crowder at least returns punts too.

The Vikings are banking on Diggs continuing an upward trend...they are not paying him for his production thus far because, quite honestly, he HASN'T EARNED THIS, not this much. I said $10 million, but Rick Speilman didn't ask me. And now Stefon Diggs can't continue to catch 64 passes a year for 800 yards and a handful of scores.

Adam Thielen got paid-significantly less-for producing a season as good or better than Stefon Diggs has had. Adam Thielen then went out and produced an even better season. I don't care what PFF or Nick Olson or Arif Hasan say...Diggs numbers now have to match his pay, or this move will be a mistake.

You could pay two decent receivers what pay Diggs to get what he's produced on a season-by-season basis thus far. That can't continue he has to be a true #1, something I don't think he is. We shall see.

The Cardinals have knocked the Vikings out of the playoffs! NO!-Paul Allen, December 28th, 2003

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Diggs Contract Extended: 5-year, $72 Million Jul 31, 2018 19:06:07 GMT -6

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Post by Reignman on Jul 31, 2018 19:06:07 GMT -6

Jul 31, 2018 18:08:18 GMT -6 Purple Pain said:

Something Tim made a while ago:

Now if Diggs can go on to produce like Carter produced in the following 3 years, then maybe the contract will be justified.

(not adjusted for passing inflation)

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

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Diggs Contract Extended: 5-year, $72 Million Jul 31, 2018 19:21:15 GMT -6

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Post by Purple Pain on Jul 31, 2018 19:21:15 GMT -6

Jul 31, 2018 18:38:24 GMT -6 VikingsBoss said:

The guy in the NFL whose stats look the most like Stefon Diggs to me is Jamison Crowder. You want to pay Jamison Crowder $14.4 million per year the next five years? Crowder at least returns punts too.

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Diggs Contract Extended: 5-year, $72 Million Jul 31, 2018 19:46:26 GMT -6

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Post by Purple Pain on Jul 31, 2018 19:46:26 GMT -6

Flashback to 2015 -

Mike Wallace: "[Stefon Diggs] just has that quick twitch muscle when he gets the ball. He can always do something with it. Great hands. Great route running ...When I first got here he reminded me of Antonio [Brown]. I still stand by that."

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Diggs Contract Extended: 5-year, $72 Million Jul 31, 2018 19:59:11 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

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Post by James on Jul 31, 2018 19:59:11 GMT -6

Jul 31, 2018 19:46:26 GMT -6 Purple Pain said:

Flashback to 2015 -

Mike Wallace: "[Stefon Diggs] just has that quick twitch muscle when he gets the ball. He can always do something with it. Great hands. Great route running ...When I first got here he reminded me of Antonio [Brown]. I still stand by that."

I see some similarities. The only difference is AB shows up every week. Diggs has the tendency to go quiet some games. AB is also faster and has more bulk which allows him to be more physical. But diggs has potential to be up there. They both track the ball well, run good routes and have excellent hands.

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Diggs Contract Extended: 5-year, $72 Million Jul 31, 2018 20:54:59 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

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Post by Danchat on Jul 31, 2018 20:54:59 GMT -6

Jul 31, 2018 19:46:26 GMT -6 Purple Pain said:

Flashback to 2015 -

Mike Wallace: "[Stefon Diggs] just has that quick twitch muscle when he gets the ball. He can always do something with it. Great hands. Great route running ...When I first got here he reminded me of Antonio [Brown]. I still stand by that."

Just to note, it's insane how the Steelers drafted Mike Wallace in the 3rd round, Emmanuel Sanders in the 5th round, and Antonio Brown in the 6th round. It's almost like drafting WRs in later rounds gives you a higher chance to find a guy because so many 1st rounders have been total busts.

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Diggs Contract Extended: 5-year, $72 Million Jul 31, 2018 23:19:44 GMT -6

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Post by Reignman on Jul 31, 2018 23:19:44 GMT -6

Jul 31, 2018 19:46:26 GMT -6 Purple Pain said:

Flashback to 2015 -

Mike Wallace: "[Stefon Diggs] just has that quick twitch muscle when he gets the ball. He can always do something with it. Great hands. Great route running ...When I first got here he reminded me of Antonio [Brown]. I still stand by that."

Was also going to point out how AB produces. Notice how nobody is using obscure stats to justify how good he is? Nope, they can point to his actual production. Hopefully we can begin talking about Diggs actual production going forward too, because yeah, he runs amazing routes, fights for everything, and has the right attitude, so there's no reason why he can't be one of the best WR's in the game.

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

vikecycle Franchise Player Posts: 3,273 Likes: 850	Diggs Contract Extended: 5-year, $72 Million Aug 1, 2018 3:19:46 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by vikecycle on Aug 1, 2018 3:19:46 GMT -6 Diggs is getting payed too much.
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Diggs Contract Extended: 5-year, $72 Million Aug 1, 2018 6:23:21 GMT -6 via mobile Funkytown likes this

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Post by SkolsandBones on Aug 1, 2018 6:23:21 GMT -6

We also have to look at the quarterback situation when talking about Diggs...How many starting quarterbacks have thrown him the ball so far? 4? And so many people want to bad mouth Teddy lately it seems. These points have to be considered as deflating his numbers in a sense.

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Diggs Contract Extended: 5-year, $72 Million Aug 1, 2018 6:37:28 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 6:37:28 GMT -6

Jul 31, 2018 18:38:24 GMT -6 VikingsBoss said:

The Vikings are banking on Diggs continuing an upward trend...they are not paying him for his production thus far because, quite honestly, he HASN'T EARNED THIS....

I gotta say I'm surprised at the number of people that can't wait to rip the guy who is mostly responsible for the greatest play in Vikings history. I'm not saying you pay a guy for one play, but using box score stats to interpret what he brings to the team makes about as much sense. Obviously the biggest issue with Diggs is the games missed due to injury, so just compiling career numbers without context basically says nothing. But think about your point...he's 24 years old and his deal covers 5 more years. Paying him for expected production is exactly what they should be doing. Teams that give out legacy contracts to guys in their late 20s who have great career stats very rarely see a good return on that investment. As far as the $10 million/year idea, well his agent wasn't born yesterday. At that number he walks and we're back to square one next season trying to patch holes with the Greg Jennings and Bobby Wades of the league. Now we have a window of 3-4 years where we can have continuity with a productive QB and 2 WRs that are borderline 1s. Meanwhile the salary cap goes up every year and if he stays healthy this deal looks great in 2020.

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Diggs Contract Extended: 5-year, $72 Million Aug 1, 2018 7:02:52 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 7:02:52 GMT -6

Jul 31, 2018 16:35:25 GMT -6 Reignman said:

This Nick guy sure does like to dig for those obscure stats lol. When someone doesn't use a guys basic production in his defense of him, it feels like he's trying to sell you something....

So yeah, one has to wonder, if a receiver is dominating in all these obscure stat categories, why doesn't his overall production reflect it? Why isn't he dominating in production too? That's why actual season long production matters. A guy just has to dominate for a few games then disappear for the rest of the season to finish high in all these other categories, and does that really help your team if you can rely on a guy for a handful of games?

I see you're not an advanced stats guy. I get that. Personally I don't like them either, mostly because football is not like baseball. There are too many variables in each play to quantify production. But honestly, they are FAR better than box score stats. They offer context...like maybe Diggs is a really good WR, even borderline #1, but a WR is only ever as good as the personnel around him. He's had below average QB play, FAR below average OL play, conservative play calling and a number of other obstacles since he came into the NFL....at age 20! And yes the games missed due to injury have been a problem. All these factors drag down how many catches, yards, TDs etc. Diggs has compiled. But isn't it interesting that as great as Theilen was last year...and he was great...Diggs had twice as many TD catches?

Stats like passer rating when targeted, contested catch rate, and rating in the RZ all have minimums just like batting average or ERA in baseball. If a guy was targeted once a game, he wouldn't be #1 in the metric, he just wouldn't be rated at all because he didn't have the minimum number of opportunities. DVOA is Defense Adjusted Value Over Average. It's similar to a PFF score in that a group of people watch every single snippet of film of the whole season and give weighted/context adjusted grades to each play/game. Of course these are imperfect. There's no way of knowing if a corner played the wrong coverage or what the QB's read progression was supposed to be, but in comparison to just saying Dez Bryant and Stefon Diggs had similar box score stats last year (which they did) they recognize that it's very easy to see that Stefon Diggs is a FAAAR better player than Dez was in 2017. These aren't based on potential, they're based on what a guy actually did to help his team win a game, not what he did to help my fantasy team.

I get that people think Diggs got overpaid, but I don't understand the rush to kill him on a message board. I've watched just about every snap of his career and I see a guy who is explosive, has tremendous body control, continuously reels in catches that 90% of WRs don't and has a knack for picking up first downs and extra yards w/o taking shots. He's humble and seemingly a good teammate, and as we all saw against the Saints he can turn a game on its head in one play. We haven't had a guy with his all around skill set since Moss was traded and now we have two. I'm just happy he's not going anywhere, not to mention we still have cap space and flexibility going forward.

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Diggs Contract Extended: 5-year, $72 Million Aug 1, 2018 14:26:15 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by VikingsBoss on Aug 1, 2018 14:26:15 GMT -6

Aug 1, 2018 6:37:28 GMT -6 @edgerush said:

Jul 31, 2018 18:38:24 GMT -6 VikingsBoss said:

The Vikings are banking on Diggs continuing an upward trend...they are not paying him for his production thus far because, quite honestly, he HASN'T EARNED THIS....

I gotta say I'm surprised at the number of people that can't wait to rip the guy who is mostly responsible for the greatest play in Vikings history. I'm not saying you pay a guy for one play, but using box score stats to interpret what he brings to the team makes about as much sense. Obviously the biggest issue with Diggs is the games missed due to injury, so just compiling career numbers without context basically says nothing. But think about your point...he's 24 years old and his deal covers 5 more years. Paying him for expected production is exactly what they should be doing. Teams that give out legacy contracts to guys in their late 20s who have great career stats very rarely see a good return on that investment. As far as the $10 million/year idea, well his agent wasn't born yesterday. At that number he walks and we're back to square one next season trying to patch holes with the Greg Jennings and Bobby Wades of the league. Now we have a window of 3-4 years where we can have continuity with a productive QB and 2 WRs that are borderline 1s. Meanwhile the salary cap goes up every year and if he stays healthy this deal looks great in 2020.

Bobby Wade's last season in Minnesota:
53-645-12.2-2
Greg Jennings' last season in Minnesota
59-742-12.6-6

So, just a shade under what Diggs has produced in his career? Wade made $1.475 million his last year, Jennings made $4.9, even adjusting for inflation you would be getting similar numbers for considerably less. And that is what I am saying...you could have signed two free agents for $14.4 million dollars and realistically expect more from them than we are apparently expecting from Stefon Diggs.

That is, if Diggs produces like he has thus far. You mentioned paying for future production...okay, but what if Diggs' production stays the same? What if, even with Cousins flinging the ball all over the yard, he still catches 70 passes for 850 yards and 5 scores? Or, in 2019 he goes for 75-900-7? That won't cut it under this contract, will it? Or does he never have to produce like a number one because Marcus Williams forgot to tackle him? For $14.4 million, I want 1000 yard seasons, I want double-digit TDs, and I won't accept the excuse that he has a bad QB, or he has to split targets with Theilen and Rudolph, or we were always up 21 points and didn't have to throw. I don't want 6 games of less than 50 yards. Or how advanced stats proof he is actually 1987 Jerry Rice in disguise. He gets paid like a #1? Produce like a #1.
He does that-for five years? This is a good deal. Otherwise, it isn't. That's how simple this is for me.

The Cardinals have knocked the Vikings out of the playoffs! NO!-Paul Allen, December 28th, 2003

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Diggs Contract Extended: 5-year, $72 Million Aug 1, 2018 15:22:04 GMT -6

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Post by Breeze on Aug 1, 2018 15:22:04 GMT -6

i don't know how anyone not writing the check can truthfully say he is worth it or not....of curse we have opinions. i would have to revisit the question in 2020 to be sure.

the guy or situation i would compare him to in terms of what he is making vs what he ultimately does for the team is mike wallace.

i don't think wallace was worth the money.....and the money is close. probably everyone would say that...regardless of who is to blame for his low production here.

for me,it's a matter of fit and flow for the offense. keeping diggs and theilen together is as important as keeping hunter and griffin together. young guys seeing them, the way they work and how they go about their business on and off the field, is a huge asset for the team.

i have always wanted the vikings to have a tradition type defense....like the ravens had for so many years. where the vets basically coach the rookies and everything has continuity. i think they have done that on defense here in minny.... they are set for several years as long as they continue to draft well.

now it also looks like they are stepping into that possibility on offense to some degree......the o-line is the lynchpin, but i like elfin and easton and what sparano was doing to instill an attitude and work ethic. real shame to lose that guy....but perhaps the co-coaches will keep it right on track.