The chance of hitting a HR at QB in the first round

Raptorman
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The chance of hitting a HR at QB in the first round Mar 20, 2024 14:22:45 GMT -6 VikingsVictorious likes this

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Post by Raptorman on Mar 20, 2024 14:22:45 GMT -6

Feb 25, 2024 12:29:12 GMT -6 terryzinc said:

playoff wins are NOT a QB stat Kirk has played the same as Burrow in the playoffs and better than Lamar in the playoffs Kirk's defenses give up 28 ppg in playoffs while Burrow and Lamar defenses give up 18 ppg Kirk

Don't bring the defense into the question as to why Cousins hasn't won anything. See, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that statistically Cousins is almost stat for stat the same as Mahomes over the last 4 years. The only major difference is 2.0 TDs per game to 2.2 TDs per game. When it comes to QBs and winning, they are supposed to be able to play better and score more than whatever the defense gives up. Cousins isn't a winner because he can't score more than what the defense gives up. Going that route will just piss people off and they will make fun of you. Believe me, I've tried to explain on this forum so many times and been told in so many words I don't know what I'm talking about, that I just stopped trying. It's not worth the energy. Let them believe what they believe. Don't point out that the Vikings defense has given up 25.2 ppg over the last 4 years while the Chiefs defense has given up 20.7 ppg over the same period. See, it doesn't matter to them. Cousins is a loser. Plain and simple...

Do you want to know who the real loser is? Josh Allen. Just think, a team that gives up less ppg than the Chiefs and scored more ppg than the Chiefs in the last 4 years. Allen has 4 losses in the playoffs in the last 4 years. 3 to the Chiefs to knock his team out. He just can't get it done.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

VikingsVictorious
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The chance of hitting a HR at QB in the first round Mar 20, 2024 14:25:31 GMT -6

Quote

Post by VikingsVictorious on Mar 20, 2024 14:25:31 GMT -6

Mar 20, 2024 14:22:45 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Feb 25, 2024 12:29:12 GMT -6 terryzinc said:

playoff wins are NOT a QB stat Kirk has played the same as Burrow in the playoffs and better than Lamar in the playoffs Kirk's defenses give up 28 ppg in playoffs while Burrow and Lamar defenses give up 18 ppg Kirk

Don't bring the defense into the question as to why Cousins hasn't won anything. See, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that statistically Cousins is almost stat for stat the same as Mahomes over the last 4 years. The only major difference is 2.0 TDs per game to 2.2 TDs per game. When it comes to QBs and winning, they are supposed to be able to play better and score more than whatever the defense gives up. Cousins isn't a winner because he can't score more than what the defense gives up. Going that route will just piss people off and they will make fun of you. Believe me, I've tried to explain on this forum so many times and been told in so many words I don't know what I'm talking about, that I just stopped trying. It's not worth the energy. Let them believe what they believe. Don't point out that the Vikings defense has given up 25.2 ppg over the last 4 years while the Chiefs defense has given up 20.7 ppg over the same period. See, it doesn't matter to them. Cousins is a loser. Plain and simple...

Do you want to know who the real loser is? Josh Allen. Just think, a team that gives up less ppg than the Chiefs and scored more ppg than the Chiefs in the last 4 years. Allen has 4 losses in the playoffs in the last 4 years. 3 to the Chiefs to knock his team out. He just can't get it done.

Very good job of showing how wins and losses are not the sole responsibility of the QB.

Raptorman
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The chance of hitting a HR at QB in the first round Mar 20, 2024 14:35:21 GMT -6 VikingsVictorious likes this

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Post by Raptorman on Mar 20, 2024 14:35:21 GMT -6

Mar 20, 2024 14:25:31 GMT -6 VikingsVictorious said:

Mar 20, 2024 14:22:45 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Don't bring the defense into the question as to why Cousins hasn't won anything. See, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that statistically Cousins is almost stat for stat the same as Mahomes over the last 4 years. The only major difference is 2.0 TDs per game to 2.2 TDs per game. When it comes to QBs and winning, they are supposed to be able to play better and score more than whatever the defense gives up. Cousins isn't a winner because he can't score more than what the defense gives up. Going that route will just piss people off and they will make fun of you. Believe me, I've tried to explain on this forum so many times and been told in so many words I don't know what I'm talking about, that I just stopped trying. It's not worth the energy. Let them believe what they believe. Don't point out that the Vikings defense has given up 25.2 ppg over the last 4 years while the Chiefs defense has given up 20.7 ppg over the same period. See, it doesn't matter to them. Cousins is a loser. Plain and simple...

Do you want to know who the real loser is? Josh Allen. Just think, a team that gives up less ppg than the Chiefs and scored more ppg than the Chiefs in the last 4 years. Allen has 4 losses in the playoffs in the last 4 years. 3 to the Chiefs to knock his team out. He just can't get it done.

Very good job of showing how wins and losses are not the sole responsibility of the QB.

Oh, believe me, I stopped trying to do that years ago. Just trying to stop a newbie from going down the path of being blasted every time he brings it up.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

ratsalad
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The chance of hitting a HR at QB in the first round Mar 20, 2024 14:38:05 GMT -6 via mobile VFL likes this

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Post by ratsalad on Mar 20, 2024 14:38:05 GMT -6

Mar 20, 2024 14:22:45 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Feb 25, 2024 12:29:12 GMT -6 terryzinc said:

playoff wins are NOT a QB stat Kirk has played the same as Burrow in the playoffs and better than Lamar in the playoffs Kirk's defenses give up 28 ppg in playoffs while Burrow and Lamar defenses give up 18 ppg Kirk

Don't bring the defense into the question as to why Cousins hasn't won anything. See, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that statistically Cousins is almost stat for stat the same as Mahomes over the last 4 years. The only major difference is 2.0 TDs per game to 2.2 TDs per game. When it comes to QBs and winning, they are supposed to be able to play better and score more than whatever the defense gives up. Cousins isn't a winner because he can't score more than what the defense gives up. Going that route will just piss people off and they will make fun of you. Believe me, I've tried to explain on this forum so many times and been told in so many words I don't know what I'm talking about, that I just stopped trying. It's not worth the energy. Let them believe what they believe. Don't point out that the Vikings defense has given up 25.2 ppg over the last 4 years while the Chiefs defense has given up 20.7 ppg over the same period. See, it doesn't matter to them. Cousins is a loser. Plain and simple...

Do you want to know who the real loser is? Josh Allen. Just think, a team that gives up less ppg than the Chiefs and scored more ppg than the Chiefs in the last 4 years. Allen has 4 losses in the playoffs in the last 4 years. 3 to the Chiefs to knock his team out. He just can't get it done.

They're just stats raptorman. Come on, stop this. Mahomes and Cousins aren't even on the same planet as far as quality

Last Edit: Mar 20, 2024 14:42:01 GMT -6 by ratsalad

maybenextyear
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The chance of hitting a HR at QB in the first round Mar 20, 2024 16:08:07 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by maybenextyear on Mar 20, 2024 16:08:07 GMT -6

Feb 25, 2024 12:58:22 GMT -6 terryzinc said:

1. Facts about Kirk do not care about your feelings about Kirk in every statistical example Kirk is a top 10 QB Primetime Playoffs Career no matter how many times I show Kirk is one of the best no matter what ACTIVE players say some of you posters continue to just say what your feelings are about Kirk not the FACTS which cannot be disputed he is clearly top 6 7 8 9 he was PFF #4 QB 1 year... his non-volume numbers are just behind guys like Brees Manning Rivers Ryan Stafford I cannot explain to people how statistics measure performance and what good performance is.

For the 1 BILLIONTH TIME Wins Losses are not a QB measure of performance. LA traded a young 1st round QB who had a better than 2 to 1 Wins to Losses record and was 3-3 in playoff and went to a SB for an older QB who had a lifetime losing record and was 0-3 in the playoffs.

Kirk has a better winning percentage than Stafford and Murray and Lawrence and Herbert is Kirk better than those QBs?

2. I have watched football for 40 plus years you cannot say QB "X" will never win a SB. Who would have best that Tark Marino Rivers would never win a SB but Foles Hostetler Dilfer and other back up QBs would win SB. Teams win SBs not QBs. Even Brady what if NE had a less clutch FG Kicker? Defense Special-Teams and Offense win SBs and Offense consists not just of the QB but OL Run game Recievers OC HC etc

Tarkenton did not even MAKE the playoffs until he was 33 who would ever say Tark would win a SB when he couldn't even make the playoffs... then once he went to SBs who would say he would never win a SB.

Until a QB wins a SB you can say X will never win a SB it's meaningless Foles won a SB but Rivers Marino Tark never did ... what about Hebert Lawrence etc they might never win a SB What about Stafford if he stayed in DET or Brees if he stayed in SD.

3. I made it clear you should always be looking for QBs like NE did even if you have Kirk as your QB (they did this Hall Mond etc you should always take flyers on QBs) if they develop you can trade them if they don't it's a 1 mid round pick who cares.

Of course you should prepare for life w/o Kirk but you don't need to waste a 1st round pick this year but mid round sure... there are good QBs coming up in other drafts to come Sanders Manning Ewers and others... it's not worth it this year

4. Kirk should be ok given these facts: super fit regime/proper diet/ only 1 fluke injury and injury that can be fixed look at Durant running up and down jumping up and down on a hardware court / QBs in his class generally last to 39ish 40ish / he was having his best year without JJ when he got hurt Build a team around Kirk for 3 years with draft picks go all in like the Rams did and there will be chances to pick up possible future QBs HAVING TO GET A QB this year is very Ponder like

5. The cap argument this is another Kirk Hater Mackey special. If Kirk as I have proven is indeed a top 10 QB and he is according to players and stats which measure performance is clutch greatest clutch year in NFL history, is top 10 in primetime, and plays like Burrow in playoffs his cap is worth it. Kirk was never the highest paid QB and never ate up the most cap we always had money to sign FAs - but just like we drafted wrong we signed the wrong FAs. Most big money FAs by the way do not pan out. What cost us in terms of roster was not Kirk's cap it was 7 years of bad drafts (4 offensive hits) and likely 8 years. One KC draft is worth all 7/8 of our drafts.

QB on rookie contract that was not the GOAT has won 1 sb. No QB on rookie contract drafted since Kirk came here has won a SB. Now most are off their rookie deals or will soon be off they are eating up more cap than Kirk ever did and their teams have not ben rebuilt they have cap issues or bad teams or both. A QB on rookie contract is a myth.

People who cry for more cap and high draft picks don't realize bad teams have this every year rarely does it matter because they are bad at player evaluation it took the Lions 30 years and it turned around when they hired a great evaluator in GM Holmes

Teams like PIT BAL KC SF SEA etc draft well not because of high picks but because they evaluate well it's not where you pick it's who you pick and even if you're tight on cap you can sign quality FAs on cheap deals look at BAL.

BAL took Hamilton his is PFF top safety year 1 and ALL PRO year 2 they traded WR to get another 1st rounder and got Linderbaum Pro Bowl 2nd year - then they signed guys like Clowney and Van Noy on the cheap...

this is the Competetive Rebuild Example these teams compete every year they don't go into decades long suckage

over 10 QBs are no eating up way more cap then Kirk ever did here they aren't dumping their QBs always a double standard with Kirk

Kirk's cap had no impact on 7/8 straight years of bad drafting and signing the wrong FAs KC rebuilt their OL in one offseason KC rebuilt their defense in 1 draft but we cannot do it in 7/8 years that has nothing to do with Kirk's cap Always a doublestandard when it comes to Kirk

Who cares. Follow Kirk, I'll follow the Vikings.

maybenextyear
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The chance of hitting a HR at QB in the first round Mar 20, 2024 16:09:43 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by maybenextyear on Mar 20, 2024 16:09:43 GMT -6

Mar 20, 2024 14:25:31 GMT -6 VikingsVictorious said:

Mar 20, 2024 14:22:45 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Don't bring the defense into the question as to why Cousins hasn't won anything. See, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that statistically Cousins is almost stat for stat the same as Mahomes over the last 4 years. The only major difference is 2.0 TDs per game to 2.2 TDs per game. When it comes to QBs and winning, they are supposed to be able to play better and score more than whatever the defense gives up. Cousins isn't a winner because he can't score more than what the defense gives up. Going that route will just piss people off and they will make fun of you. Believe me, I've tried to explain on this forum so many times and been told in so many words I don't know what I'm talking about, that I just stopped trying. It's not worth the energy. Let them believe what they believe. Don't point out that the Vikings defense has given up 25.2 ppg over the last 4 years while the Chiefs defense has given up 20.7 ppg over the same period. See, it doesn't matter to them. Cousins is a loser. Plain and simple...

Do you want to know who the real loser is? Josh Allen. Just think, a team that gives up less ppg than the Chiefs and scored more ppg than the Chiefs in the last 4 years. Allen has 4 losses in the playoffs in the last 4 years. 3 to the Chiefs to knock his team out. He just can't get it done.

Very good job of showing how wins and losses are not the sole responsibility of the QB.

Or how you can make excuses to fit any narrative spin and spin and spin.

Jor-El
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The chance of hitting a HR at QB in the first round Mar 20, 2024 16:38:06 GMT -6 Danchat likes this

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Post by Jor-El on Mar 20, 2024 16:38:06 GMT -6

Mar 20, 2024 14:01:12 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Mar 20, 2024 10:27:52 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

There is no statistical evidence that sitting a quarterback in year one, or trying to sit a quarterback in year one, positively impacts his career, even after adjusting for initial conditions, in today’s roster-building environment of the 2011/2020 CBA.

While it is a small sample size, I think this is an accurate conclusion that many people don't want to accept. Playing the rookie QB Year 1 isn't going to wreck them, that's a myth.

And if it were true that QB prospects who "weren't given a fair chance" would do so much better elsewhere - I keep seeing this narrative with Sam Darnold, Kenny Pickett, Justin Fields, Mac Jones, Bryce Young to a degree, and others... but then why don't we see more busts turn into gems on other teams more often?

True, and it's almost beyond "infrequent" - it's exceedingly rare. Seriously, Jim Plunkett is the first example that comes to mind, so I had to go back 40+ years. I'm sure I missed a few, but...put aside those few who didn't even get a shot with their original team (Favre in Atlanta), and how many flop somewhere and ever pan out? I'm not sure Baker Mayfield counts as he had success in Cleveland early. Maybe Geno Smith.

So it is either:
A. They were prospects bound to fail anywhere, regardless of the team and organization around them; or
B. Once a QB gets "ruined", there is no way to fix him

No idea which. As FSUVike says, two things can both be true...

VikingsVictorious
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The chance of hitting a HR at QB in the first round Mar 20, 2024 17:06:39 GMT -6

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Post by VikingsVictorious on Mar 20, 2024 17:06:39 GMT -6

Mar 20, 2024 16:08:07 GMT -6 maybenextyear said:

Feb 25, 2024 12:58:22 GMT -6 terryzinc said:

1. Facts about Kirk do not care about your feelings about Kirk in every statistical example Kirk is a top 10 QB Primetime Playoffs Career no matter how many times I show Kirk is one of the best no matter what ACTIVE players say some of you posters continue to just say what your feelings are about Kirk not the FACTS which cannot be disputed he is clearly top 6 7 8 9 he was PFF #4 QB 1 year... his non-volume numbers are just behind guys like Brees Manning Rivers Ryan Stafford I cannot explain to people how statistics measure performance and what good performance is.

For the 1 BILLIONTH TIME Wins Losses are not a QB measure of performance. LA traded a young 1st round QB who had a better than 2 to 1 Wins to Losses record and was 3-3 in playoff and went to a SB for an older QB who had a lifetime losing record and was 0-3 in the playoffs.

Kirk has a better winning percentage than Stafford and Murray and Lawrence and Herbert is Kirk better than those QBs?

2. I have watched football for 40 plus years you cannot say QB "X" will never win a SB. Who would have best that Tark Marino Rivers would never win a SB but Foles Hostetler Dilfer and other back up QBs would win SB. Teams win SBs not QBs. Even Brady what if NE had a less clutch FG Kicker? Defense Special-Teams and Offense win SBs and Offense consists not just of the QB but OL Run game Recievers OC HC etc

Tarkenton did not even MAKE the playoffs until he was 33 who would ever say Tark would win a SB when he couldn't even make the playoffs... then once he went to SBs who would say he would never win a SB.

Until a QB wins a SB you can say X will never win a SB it's meaningless Foles won a SB but Rivers Marino Tark never did ... what about Hebert Lawrence etc they might never win a SB What about Stafford if he stayed in DET or Brees if he stayed in SD.

3. I made it clear you should always be looking for QBs like NE did even if you have Kirk as your QB (they did this Hall Mond etc you should always take flyers on QBs) if they develop you can trade them if they don't it's a 1 mid round pick who cares.

Of course you should prepare for life w/o Kirk but you don't need to waste a 1st round pick this year but mid round sure... there are good QBs coming up in other drafts to come Sanders Manning Ewers and others... it's not worth it this year

4. Kirk should be ok given these facts: super fit regime/proper diet/ only 1 fluke injury and injury that can be fixed look at Durant running up and down jumping up and down on a hardware court / QBs in his class generally last to 39ish 40ish / he was having his best year without JJ when he got hurt Build a team around Kirk for 3 years with draft picks go all in like the Rams did and there will be chances to pick up possible future QBs HAVING TO GET A QB this year is very Ponder like

5. The cap argument this is another Kirk Hater Mackey special. If Kirk as I have proven is indeed a top 10 QB and he is according to players and stats which measure performance is clutch greatest clutch year in NFL history, is top 10 in primetime, and plays like Burrow in playoffs his cap is worth it. Kirk was never the highest paid QB and never ate up the most cap we always had money to sign FAs - but just like we drafted wrong we signed the wrong FAs. Most big money FAs by the way do not pan out. What cost us in terms of roster was not Kirk's cap it was 7 years of bad drafts (4 offensive hits) and likely 8 years. One KC draft is worth all 7/8 of our drafts.

QB on rookie contract that was not the GOAT has won 1 sb. No QB on rookie contract drafted since Kirk came here has won a SB. Now most are off their rookie deals or will soon be off they are eating up more cap than Kirk ever did and their teams have not ben rebuilt they have cap issues or bad teams or both. A QB on rookie contract is a myth.

People who cry for more cap and high draft picks don't realize bad teams have this every year rarely does it matter because they are bad at player evaluation it took the Lions 30 years and it turned around when they hired a great evaluator in GM Holmes

Teams like PIT BAL KC SF SEA etc draft well not because of high picks but because they evaluate well it's not where you pick it's who you pick and even if you're tight on cap you can sign quality FAs on cheap deals look at BAL.

BAL took Hamilton his is PFF top safety year 1 and ALL PRO year 2 they traded WR to get another 1st rounder and got Linderbaum Pro Bowl 2nd year - then they signed guys like Clowney and Van Noy on the cheap...

this is the Competetive Rebuild Example these teams compete every year they don't go into decades long suckage

over 10 QBs are no eating up way more cap then Kirk ever did here they aren't dumping their QBs always a double standard with Kirk

Kirk's cap had no impact on 7/8 straight years of bad drafting and signing the wrong FAs KC rebuilt their OL in one offseason KC rebuilt their defense in 1 draft but we cannot do it in 7/8 years that has nothing to do with Kirk's cap Always a doublestandard when it comes to Kirk

Who cares. Follow Kirk, I'll follow the Vikings.

How about following the Vikings and still keeping an eye on how Kirk does. I'll bet you do that. I think we all will.

ratsalad
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The chance of hitting a HR at QB in the first round Mar 20, 2024 17:09:33 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by ratsalad on Mar 20, 2024 17:09:33 GMT -6

Feb 25, 2024 12:58:22 GMT -6 terryzinc said:

1. Facts about Kirk do not care about your feelings about Kirk in every statistical example Kirk is a top 10 QB Primetime Playoffs Career no matter how many times I show Kirk is one of the best no matter what ACTIVE players say some of you posters continue to just say what your feelings are about Kirk not the FACTS which cannot be disputed he is clearly top 6 7 8 9 he was PFF #4 QB 1 year... his non-volume numbers are just behind guys like Brees Manning Rivers Ryan Stafford I cannot explain to people how statistics measure performance and what good performance is.

For the 1 BILLIONTH TIME Wins Losses are not a QB measure of performance. LA traded a young 1st round QB who had a better than 2 to 1 Wins to Losses record and was 3-3 in playoff and went to a SB for an older QB who had a lifetime losing record and was 0-3 in the playoffs.

Kirk has a better winning percentage than Stafford and Murray and Lawrence and Herbert is Kirk better than those QBs?

2. I have watched football for 40 plus years you cannot say QB "X" will never win a SB. Who would have best that Tark Marino Rivers would never win a SB but Foles Hostetler Dilfer and other back up QBs would win SB. Teams win SBs not QBs. Even Brady what if NE had a less clutch FG Kicker? Defense Special-Teams and Offense win SBs and Offense consists not just of the QB but OL Run game Recievers OC HC etc

Tarkenton did not even MAKE the playoffs until he was 33 who would ever say Tark would win a SB when he couldn't even make the playoffs... then once he went to SBs who would say he would never win a SB.

Until a QB wins a SB you can say X will never win a SB it's meaningless Foles won a SB but Rivers Marino Tark never did ... what about Hebert Lawrence etc they might never win a SB What about Stafford if he stayed in DET or Brees if he stayed in SD.

3. I made it clear you should always be looking for QBs like NE did even if you have Kirk as your QB (they did this Hall Mond etc you should always take flyers on QBs) if they develop you can trade them if they don't it's a 1 mid round pick who cares.

Of course you should prepare for life w/o Kirk but you don't need to waste a 1st round pick this year but mid round sure... there are good QBs coming up in other drafts to come Sanders Manning Ewers and others... it's not worth it this year

4. Kirk should be ok given these facts: super fit regime/proper diet/ only 1 fluke injury and injury that can be fixed look at Durant running up and down jumping up and down on a hardware court / QBs in his class generally last to 39ish 40ish / he was having his best year without JJ when he got hurt Build a team around Kirk for 3 years with draft picks go all in like the Rams did and there will be chances to pick up possible future QBs HAVING TO GET A QB this year is very Ponder like

5. The cap argument this is another Kirk Hater Mackey special. If Kirk as I have proven is indeed a top 10 QB and he is according to players and stats which measure performance is clutch greatest clutch year in NFL history, is top 10 in primetime, and plays like Burrow in playoffs his cap is worth it. Kirk was never the highest paid QB and never ate up the most cap we always had money to sign FAs - but just like we drafted wrong we signed the wrong FAs. Most big money FAs by the way do not pan out. What cost us in terms of roster was not Kirk's cap it was 7 years of bad drafts (4 offensive hits) and likely 8 years. One KC draft is worth all 7/8 of our drafts.

QB on rookie contract that was not the GOAT has won 1 sb. No QB on rookie contract drafted since Kirk came here has won a SB. Now most are off their rookie deals or will soon be off they are eating up more cap than Kirk ever did and their teams have not ben rebuilt they have cap issues or bad teams or both. A QB on rookie contract is a myth.

People who cry for more cap and high draft picks don't realize bad teams have this every year rarely does it matter because they are bad at player evaluation it took the Lions 30 years and it turned around when they hired a great evaluator in GM Holmes

Teams like PIT BAL KC SF SEA etc draft well not because of high picks but because they evaluate well it's not where you pick it's who you pick and even if you're tight on cap you can sign quality FAs on cheap deals look at BAL.

BAL took Hamilton his is PFF top safety year 1 and ALL PRO year 2 they traded WR to get another 1st rounder and got Linderbaum Pro Bowl 2nd year - then they signed guys like Clowney and Van Noy on the cheap...

this is the Competetive Rebuild Example these teams compete every year they don't go into decades long suckage

over 10 QBs are no eating up way more cap then Kirk ever did here they aren't dumping their QBs always a double standard with Kirk

Kirk's cap had no impact on 7/8 straight years of bad drafting and signing the wrong FAs KC rebuilt their OL in one offseason KC rebuilt their defense in 1 draft but we cannot do it in 7/8 years that has nothing to do with Kirk's cap Always a doublestandard when it comes to Kirk

I've never felt so betrayed

maybenextyear
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The chance of hitting a HR at QB in the first round Mar 20, 2024 17:38:04 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by maybenextyear on Mar 20, 2024 17:38:04 GMT -6

Mar 20, 2024 17:06:39 GMT -6 VikingsVictorious said:

Mar 20, 2024 16:08:07 GMT -6 maybenextyear said:

Who cares. Follow Kirk, I'll follow the Vikings.

How about following the Vikings and still keeping an eye on how Kirk does. I'll bet you do that. I think we all will.

Don't care if they don't play for the Vikings.

gophersturf10
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The chance of hitting a HR at QB in the first round Mar 20, 2024 17:42:32 GMT -6 via mobile VikingsVictorious likes this

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Post by gophersturf10 on Mar 20, 2024 17:42:32 GMT -6

Mar 20, 2024 17:38:04 GMT -6 maybenextyear said:

Mar 20, 2024 17:06:39 GMT -6 VikingsVictorious said:

How about following the Vikings and still keeping an eye on how Kirk does. I'll bet you do that. I think we all will.

Don't care if they don't play for the Vikings.

You will want to know what might have been. You’ll check how Kirk does don’t kid yourself.

maybenextyear
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The chance of hitting a HR at QB in the first round Mar 20, 2024 17:45:34 GMT -6 via mobile Brandon likes this

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Post by maybenextyear on Mar 20, 2024 17:45:34 GMT -6

Mar 20, 2024 17:42:32 GMT -6 gophersturf10 said:

Mar 20, 2024 17:38:04 GMT -6 maybenextyear said:

Don't care if they don't play for the Vikings.

You will want to know what might have been. You’ll check how Kirk does don’t kid yourself.

Trust me only game I'll see Kirk is when he's getting his ass handed to him by BFlo and the boys. I already know what it was. The might have been has ended.

Last Edit: Mar 20, 2024 17:47:21 GMT -6 by maybenextyear

Danchat
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The chance of hitting a HR at QB in the first round Mar 20, 2024 17:52:51 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Mar 20, 2024 17:52:51 GMT -6

Mar 20, 2024 16:38:06 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

I'm not sure Baker Mayfield counts as he had success in Cleveland early. Maybe Geno Smith.

I count Geno Smith as he never showed anything in his first stint, while Mayfield had some amount of success - his play in 2018 and 2020 were quite solid for his stage of development, so it wasn't that crazy that he rebounded in Tampa. Of the list of QBs I mentioned, only Mac Jones had a similar start to his career but in a lesser sample size.

Mar 20, 2024 16:38:06 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

So it is either:
A. They were prospects bound to fail anywhere, regardless of the team and organization around them; or
B. Once a QB gets "ruined", there is no way to fix him

I believe it's more A than B, outside of David Carr situations where the player was physically beaten up or injured.

Brandon
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The chance of hitting a HR at QB in the first round Mar 20, 2024 17:55:52 GMT -6 via mobile maybenextyear likes this

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Post by Brandon on Mar 20, 2024 17:55:52 GMT -6

Mar 20, 2024 17:42:32 GMT -6 gophersturf10 said:

Mar 20, 2024 17:38:04 GMT -6 maybenextyear said:

Don't care if they don't play for the Vikings.

You will want to know what might have been. You’ll check how Kirk does don’t kid yourself.

I legitimately don't care because whatever he might do with Atlanta wouldn't have happened here. Different coaches, different players around him, different games. Each game is a game unto itself as is each season. If the Falcons were to win 3 games and stink or 12 games and playoff game it means nothing towards what he would have done in Minnesota because the teams are not in the same place. Minnesota has desperately needed a full rebuild on defense, the middle of oline needs help and they have depth problems across the board. Kirk wouldn't fix any of that. It was time, the fork in the road was reached.

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The chance of hitting a HR at QB in the first round Mar 20, 2024 19:07:57 GMT -6

Quote

Post by VFL on Mar 20, 2024 19:07:57 GMT -6

Mar 20, 2024 14:38:05 GMT -6 ratsalad said:

Mar 20, 2024 14:22:45 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Don't bring the defense into the question as to why Cousins hasn't won anything. See, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that statistically Cousins is almost stat for stat the same as Mahomes over the last 4 years. The only major difference is 2.0 TDs per game to 2.2 TDs per game. When it comes to QBs and winning, they are supposed to be able to play better and score more than whatever the defense gives up. Cousins isn't a winner because he can't score more than what the defense gives up. Going that route will just piss people off and they will make fun of you. Believe me, I've tried to explain on this forum so many times and been told in so many words I don't know what I'm talking about, that I just stopped trying. It's not worth the energy. Let them believe what they believe. Don't point out that the Vikings defense has given up 25.2 ppg over the last 4 years while the Chiefs defense has given up 20.7 ppg over the same period. See, it doesn't matter to them. Cousins is a loser. Plain and simple...

Do you want to know who the real loser is? Josh Allen. Just think, a team that gives up less ppg than the Chiefs and scored more ppg than the Chiefs in the last 4 years. Allen has 4 losses in the playoffs in the last 4 years. 3 to the Chiefs to knock his team out. He just can't get it done.

They're just stats raptorman. Come on, stop this. Mahomes and Cousins aren't even on the same planet as far as quality

Not even close.

Luck = Preparation meeting opportunity