Year 3 with KAM & KO - How we feelin'?

Danchat
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Year 3 with KAM & KO - How we feelin'? Aug 17, 2024 22:38:22 GMT -6 slapnut19 likes this

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Post by Danchat on Aug 17, 2024 22:38:22 GMT -6

Aug 17, 2024 20:23:46 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Can you tell me which head coaches had multiple losing seasons in a row that didn't lose their jobs? Yes, Spielman got way to long of a rope, but at head coach they have been very quick to pull the trigger.

I don't think two losing seasons in a row is enough to get a coach canned the context of how they have taken a step back in Year 3 to build for Years 4-5. If it's two losing seasons when you're expecting to be a Super Bowl contender that is a different story.

As I've said before, it would be one thing if McCarthy played and he was incredibly bad (Josh Rosen-like). But now that scenario is off the table, it basically ensures O'Connell will be back in 2025. Would the Wilfs be rash enough to bring in a new regime just force them upon O'Connell's pet project QB? There is clearly a multi-year plan in place and the front office is in love with KOC, not to mention the Wilfs love the team culture. Maybe if things get toxic like they did with Spielman & Zimmer things could change. But at this point it's pretty easy for O'Connell to use Kirk's and JJ's injuries as excuses for two straight losing seasons, even if you find that to be a weak excuse.

I'll back it up with a PPA prediction - the Vikings have a losing season in 2024 and O'Connell gets an extension by the start of the 2025 season.

ratsalad
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Year 3 with KAM & KO - How we feelin'? Aug 18, 2024 6:13:21 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by ratsalad on Aug 18, 2024 6:13:21 GMT -6

Jul 19, 2024 23:20:42 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Jul 19, 2024 13:12:31 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

• Competent people. Give them a chance to finish the job.

This is their 3rd year. IMHO I think they're right on schedule and are doing a decent job getting this team pointed in the right direction. Slow and steady.

They ought to be fired, honestly. They haven't had any kind of success other than their first season. They did this wishy washy thing with Cousins and wasted 2 years. They didn't have much of a plan at all from where I'm sitting. There's no reason they couldn't have done things differently. You don't draft franchise QB in a contract year.

Tbh for their careers they probably would have been better off keeping Cousins. It wouldn't have been good for the team but it definitely would have kept their seats nice and cool. Everyone assumes KOC and KAM will be back next year but if the team only wins like 3 to 5 games that is definitely not a given. Good management doesn't let what has happened to this team up to this point happen. There was no plan in place for pretty much the entirety of their tenure here.

And don't even get me started on KAM drafting. He's probably the worst in the league, or among the worst.

Of course, all this said, they have like no picks next year. Good luck getting something going with that.

Good luck, that's what this team needs but never has.

Last Edit: Aug 18, 2024 6:20:44 GMT -6 by ratsalad

slapnut19
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Year 3 with KAM & KO - How we feelin'? Aug 18, 2024 6:17:58 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by slapnut19 on Aug 18, 2024 6:17:58 GMT -6

Aug 18, 2024 6:13:21 GMT -6 ratsalad said:

Jul 19, 2024 23:20:42 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

This is their 3rd year. IMHO I think they're right on schedule and are doing a decent job getting this team pointed in the right direction. Slow and steady.

They ought to be fired, honestly. They haven't had any kind of success other than their first season. They did this wishy washy thing with Cousins and wasted 2 years. They didn't have much of a plan at all from where I'm sitting. There's no reason they couldn't have done things differently. You don't draft franchise QB in a contract year.

Tbh for their careers they probably would have been better off keeping Cousins. It wouldn't have been good for the team but it definitely would have kept their seats nice and cool. Everyone assumes KOC and KAM will be back next year but if the team only wins like 3 to 5 games that is definitely not a given. Good management doesn't let what has happened to this team up to this point happen. There was no plan in place for pretty much the entirety of their tenure here.

And don't even get me started on KAM drafting. He's probably the worst in the league, or among the worst.

you mean the plan where they tried to win with the team they had in 2022, tear down the roster in 2023 and draft a qb in 2024? That's the plan you can't see?

dougpaschal Team Captain Posts: 1,880 Likes: 488	Year 3 with KAM & KO - How we feelin'? Aug 18, 2024 7:18:39 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by dougpaschal on Aug 18, 2024 7:18:39 GMT -6

whoskmoon
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Year 3 with KAM & KO - How we feelin'? Aug 18, 2024 7:28:53 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Aug 18, 2024 7:28:53 GMT -6

Aug 17, 2024 22:38:22 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Aug 17, 2024 20:23:46 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Can you tell me which head coaches had multiple losing seasons in a row that didn't lose their jobs? Yes, Spielman got way to long of a rope, but at head coach they have been very quick to pull the trigger.

I don't think two losing seasons in a row is enough to get a coach canned the context of how they have taken a step back in Year 3 to build for Years 4-5. If it's two losing seasons when you're expecting to be a Super Bowl contender that is a different story.

As I've said before, it would be one thing if McCarthy played and he was incredibly bad (Josh Rosen-like). But now that scenario is off the table, it basically ensures O'Connell will be back in 2025. Would the Wilfs be rash enough to bring in a new regime just force them upon O'Connell's pet project QB? There is clearly a multi-year plan in place and the front office is in love with KOC, not to mention the Wilfs love the team culture. Maybe if things get toxic like they did with Spielman & Zimmer things could change. But at this point it's pretty easy for O'Connell to use Kirk's and JJ's injuries as excuses for two straight losing seasons, even if you find that to be a weak excuse.

I'll back it up with a PPA prediction - the Vikings have a losing season in 2024 and O'Connell gets an extension by the start of the 2025 season.

I know it probably has happened, but when has a head coach or GM been given an extension after 3 seasons with 0 playoff wins and having a losing season the last two seasons?

whoskmoon
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Year 3 with KAM & KO - How we feelin'? Aug 18, 2024 7:31:20 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Aug 18, 2024 7:31:20 GMT -6

Aug 18, 2024 6:17:58 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

Aug 18, 2024 6:13:21 GMT -6 ratsalad said:

They ought to be fired, honestly. They haven't had any kind of success other than their first season. They did this wishy washy thing with Cousins and wasted 2 years. They didn't have much of a plan at all from where I'm sitting. There's no reason they couldn't have done things differently. You don't draft franchise QB in a contract year.

Tbh for their careers they probably would have been better off keeping Cousins. It wouldn't have been good for the team but it definitely would have kept their seats nice and cool. Everyone assumes KOC and KAM will be back next year but if the team only wins like 3 to 5 games that is definitely not a given. Good management doesn't let what has happened to this team up to this point happen. There was no plan in place for pretty much the entirety of their tenure here.

And don't even get me started on KAM drafting. He's probably the worst in the league, or among the worst.

you mean the plan where they tried to win with the team they had in 2022, tear down the roster in 2023 and draft a qb in 2024? That's the plan you can't see?

There is a plan, it was just poorly executed. The Vikings should have been able to do everything they did AND picked up a bunch of picks in the process.

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Year 3 with KAM & KO - How we feelin'? Aug 18, 2024 8:49:57 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Aug 18, 2024 8:49:57 GMT -6

Aug 18, 2024 7:31:20 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Aug 18, 2024 6:17:58 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

you mean the plan where they tried to win with the team they had in 2022, tear down the roster in 2023 and draft a qb in 2024? That's the plan you can't see?

There is a plan, it was just poorly executed. The Vikings should have been able to do everything they did AND picked up a bunch of picks in the process.

Exactly.
If Kirk and Hunter were not in the long term plans then they should have absolutely traded them before the season started last year. At that point they at least had some trade value and dumping them would have cleared out their cap hit going into this year so we had more money to build the roster. Keeping them got us nothing and it took sacrificing multiple picks to get in position to take JJ and Turner. Now next year we have limited picks as well and will need to blow money we could have used to extend players just to bring in guys to fill the holes we can’t through the draft.

There is no reason the team couldn’t be competitive in the third year of their tenure if they had executed a better plan

slapnut19
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Year 3 with KAM & KO - How we feelin'? Aug 18, 2024 9:11:18 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by slapnut19 on Aug 18, 2024 9:11:18 GMT -6

Aug 18, 2024 8:49:57 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Aug 18, 2024 7:31:20 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

There is a plan, it was just poorly executed. The Vikings should have been able to do everything they did AND picked up a bunch of picks in the process.

Exactly.
If Kirk and Hunter were not in the long term plans then they should have absolutely traded them before the season started last year. At that point they at least had some trade value and dumping them would have cleared out their cap hit going into this year so we had more money to build the roster. Keeping them got us nothing and it took sacrificing multiple picks to get in position to take JJ and Turner. Now next year we have limited picks as well and will need to blow money we could have used to extend players just to bring in guys to fill the holes we can’t through the draft.

There is no reason the team couldn’t be competitive in the third year of their tenure if they had executed a better plan

who are all these players we have to extend? Bynum? Phillips? We can absolutely extend them and add players via free agency.

PurpleFloyd
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Year 3 with KAM & KO - How we feelin'? Aug 18, 2024 10:02:27 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Aug 18, 2024 10:02:27 GMT -6

Aug 18, 2024 9:11:18 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

Aug 18, 2024 8:49:57 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Exactly.
If Kirk and Hunter were not in the long term plans then they should have absolutely traded them before the season started last year. At that point they at least had some trade value and dumping them would have cleared out their cap hit going into this year so we had more money to build the roster. Keeping them got us nothing and it took sacrificing multiple picks to get in position to take JJ and Turner. Now next year we have limited picks as well and will need to blow money we could have used to extend players just to bring in guys to fill the holes we can’t through the draft.

There is no reason the team couldn’t be competitive in the third year of their tenure if they had executed a better plan

who are all these players we have to extend? Bynum? Phillips? We can absolutely extend them and add players via free agency.

What are the names of the players they are going to add in FA?

Teams that are run well build through the draft and not FA. FAcis to supplement not build. Your argument isn’t as strong as you think either- if we don’t have any elite players to extend that itself is a sign that they aren’t drafting very well

slapnut19
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Year 3 with KAM & KO - How we feelin'? Aug 18, 2024 10:07:25 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by slapnut19 on Aug 18, 2024 10:07:25 GMT -6

Aug 18, 2024 10:02:27 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Aug 18, 2024 9:11:18 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

who are all these players we have to extend? Bynum? Phillips? We can absolutely extend them and add players via free agency.

What are the names of the players they are going to add in FA?

Teams that are run well build through the draft and not FA. FAcis to supplement not build. Your argument isn’t as strong as you think either- if we don’t have any elite players to extend that itself is a sign that they aren’t drafting very well

build through the draft like Jefferson Addison Darrisaw O'Neil McCarthy Turner Metellus Bynum?

PurpleFloyd
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Year 3 with KAM & KO - How we feelin'? Aug 18, 2024 10:16:20 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Aug 18, 2024 10:16:20 GMT -6

Aug 18, 2024 10:07:25 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

Aug 18, 2024 10:02:27 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

What are the names of the players they are going to add in FA?

Teams that are run well build through the draft and not FA. FAcis to supplement not build. Your argument isn’t as strong as you think either- if we don’t have any elite players to extend that itself is a sign that they aren’t drafting very well

build through the draft like Jefferson Addison Darrisaw O'Neil McCarthy Turner Metellus Bynum?

So two people drafted by this regime who haven’t seen a regular season snap, and the rest drafted by Spielman is your response?🤷‍♂️

Last Edit: Aug 18, 2024 10:17:14 GMT -6 by PurpleFloyd

slapnut19
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Year 3 with KAM & KO - How we feelin'? Aug 18, 2024 10:19:35 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by slapnut19 on Aug 18, 2024 10:19:35 GMT -6

Aug 18, 2024 10:16:20 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Aug 18, 2024 10:07:25 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

build through the draft like Jefferson Addison Darrisaw O'Neil McCarthy Turner Metellus Bynum?

So two people drafted by this regime who haven’t seen a regular season snap, and the rest drafted by Spielman is your response?🤷‍♂️

so do they not count? Kwesi extended Jefferson and Darrisaw. They are his guys now.

comet52
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Year 3 with KAM & KO - How we feelin'? Aug 18, 2024 11:06:59 GMT -6 Danchat, slapnut19, and 2 more like this

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Post by comet52 on Aug 18, 2024 11:06:59 GMT -6

Aug 18, 2024 10:19:35 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

Aug 18, 2024 10:16:20 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

So two people drafted by this regime who haven’t seen a regular season snap, and the rest drafted by Spielman is your response?🤷‍♂️

so do they not count? Kwesi extended Jefferson and Darrisaw. They are his guys now.

Well it's easy to make a case for KAM when you decide that he gets credit for drafting Jefferson and Darrisaw lol.

The thing with KOC/KAM and extensions is, I can't think of another franchise that would clean house in the gm/hc positions and then tell the new guys "Oh btw, can you just run back that same sh*t we did last year cuz we really love our aging, overpaid vets and also don't trade any of them for draft capital cuz like we said, we love those guys!"

When your ownership is as soft-headed as the Wilfs, you just do the best you can. They weren't really allowed to start the rebuild until this year. And whether we agree or not on the particulars, I'd wager that based on the Wilfs history of never firing anyone unless that hc or gm does something seriously egregious, these guys will both get extended.

In fact if they just duplicate the previous regime's record of averaging .500 over many years and making the playoffs once every three years with a one-and-done, KAM/KOC will probably still be here 10 years from now while we argue over their relative value.

I'm here for entertainment purposes only

vikingpwr
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Year 3 with KAM & KO - How we feelin'? Aug 18, 2024 11:30:33 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on Aug 18, 2024 11:30:33 GMT -6

Aug 18, 2024 6:13:21 GMT -6 ratsalad said:

They ought to be fired, honestly.

Would you like Kwesi and O'Connell to be fired before the 2024 season or after it? I'm guessing you're one of these fans who have already written off this 2024 season so I'm guessing the best time would be now.

Aug 18, 2024 6:13:21 GMT -6 ratsalad said:

They haven't had any kind of success other than their first season.

What exactly is your definition of success? Were you expecting a deep playoff run in their first year (2022) in charge and an SB win last season?

comet52
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Year 3 with KAM & KO - How we feelin'? Aug 18, 2024 11:54:46 GMT -6 ratsalad likes this

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Post by comet52 on Aug 18, 2024 11:54:46 GMT -6

Aug 18, 2024 11:30:33 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Aug 18, 2024 6:13:21 GMT -6 ratsalad said:

They ought to be fired, honestly.

Would you like Kwesi and O'Connell to be fired before the 2024 season or after it? I'm guessing you're one of these fans who have already written off this 2024 season so I'm guessing the best time would be now.

I will tell you the real problem with the fire the hc/gm hot take stuff: the same owners will hire their replacements.

This is their 20th year owning the team. They lucked into one contending team because their hc and oc at the time had relationships with Favre and convinced him to come here, fulfilling his desire for revenge on Green Bay who he thought had done him wrong. When they mistakenly doubled down on Favre in 2010, something Favre himself said wasn't going to work (but he couldn't resist the huge dough), Zygmunt announced publicly in August that this would be their best team yet. The disaster that was 2010 is one of many examples of how out of touch with reality the Wilfs really are.

Their track record of hiring is not good. Foley, Chili, Les. Rickey as g.m. for life. Zimmer for 8 freakin' years, about 5 years too long. So hoping they'll fire these guys and hire new ones is like hoping we'll look up the lottery numbers and discover we have the winning ticket. It's a longshot at best. KAM/KOC are probably as good as they've managed to hire, despite the flaws. And the Wilfs don't fire guys unless things get really bad so, sit back and enjoy the ride whether you like it or not lol.

I'm here for entertainment purposes only