Is JJ really going to make a difference when back?

If that’s true why would you purposely cherry pick years outside of the discussion and accuse me of cherry picking for using relevant context to the discussion (especially when I was not just using 18 as the example which would make him look worse)?

Allen’s offenses have been top 5 in ppg all of the last 4 years. Allen has gone head to head with Mahomes in the playoffs and lost because his defense couldn’t hold a lead for like 13 seconds. He also still has 4 times the amount of playoff wins than cousins entire career. That along with his basic abilities and eye test tell almost everyone he is better than cousins.

I never said most of what you are going off about here (per usual). It’s typical deflection because there really is no disputing the disappointing results from signing cousins. That’s not knocking him for the bad years of defense, it’s knocking him for that lack of a jump from the offense overall. For all of the missed throws in key spots I have seen for years along with the eye test showing a big reason why is decision making/awareness/mobility issues and an inability to creat off script to make plays. All of it combined is what makes this pretty clear, the statistics that have been shared just help reinforce it. The point was never that keenum elevated this offense due to being amazing, it’s that neither did cousins after him from what he was doing. That’s an issue when one of them is paid near top of the league money, for obvious reasons. Cousins is an above average starter and Keenum is a backup for a reason, as I have said many many many times before cousins is better. He’s just not an elite which is how he has been paid and that’s an obvious issue. Again would you want the Vikings to pay up 25+ mil for an above average wr? Same idea.

I didn't cherry-pick. I used the previous 5 years. But apparently comparing him to the team over the same time span is cherry-picking.
You mean Allen isn't elevating his defense? And isn't winning on the QB? Funny how it's an excuse for Allen but ignored for Cousins the last 3 effing years.
How much jump in offense did you think they would get? 30 ppg? Only one team is doing that. ONE. No other QB is doing it. 25 ppg on offense is actually quite good. Unless your defense gives up 25 ppg. I don't think there is a single HOF QB that averaged over 25 ppg during more than 1 season.

Yeah, no one ever puts an exact number down. No one ever has and no one ever answers the question. And those SB odds also took into consideration that the defense would maintain its level of play, which didn't happen. Funny how people always talk about the offense going from 10 to 19 but never about the Defense going from 1 to 9 in 2018
Allen has had a top 5 defense and offense the past two years and can't make it past the division game. He's had a top-10 defense for 4 of his 6 years so far. But, he's so much better than Cousins. Yeah, right. I wonder what Cousins's record would be if his defense averaged 19 ppg in the last 5 years.

As has been explained to you by multiple people including myself before now, that's because it lacks a lot of context. I did answer the question in terms of general expectations that the offense would go from 8th in ppd (10th ppg) into the top 5. I think that is a pretty fair answer even if it isn't a specific number to a useless question. The defense went from 2nd to 3rd in terms of ppd and 2 to 3 in terms of ypd. The reason the team dropped off wasn't that the defense got 1 spot worse compared to the rest of the league in points allowed per drive, it's that the offense went from 8th to 24th in ppd and 9th to 25th in ypd lol. The drop of 16 was much more significant than the drop of 1 on why this team fell off, that's why people always talk about the offense as the issue. It was obvious to everyone watching (except certain fans apparently) and the stats back it up.



Well, again, one of those two years you are talking about he put up 36 points and had the lead with 13 seconds left but the defense gave it up. It's hilarious you keep ignoring it when people point it out but can you imagine the outrage you would have if people kept blaming Cousins for losing a game like that in the same way you are? Seriously think about how hard you defend him despite playing bad individually in the playoff game often discussed and now you are blaming allen for 36 points and a lead with 13 seconds left in a shootout with one of the greatest QB's of all time it seems.

The hypocrisy is astounding but it just goes to show what I was saying about how low the standards truly are for many with Cousins. He can take over a team playing incredible football and who most see as talented enough for top 4 odds to win it all and when the offense falls off huge one year you want to focus on the defenses 1 spot drop instead. You want to blame Allen for not winning while doing that against Mahomes while constantly defending Cousins putting up one drive of more than 10 yards until very late in the 49ers game. The standards are drastically different for you when it isn't Cousins involved.

It was 2018 the year you were asking about why people talk about the offensive drop and not defensive drop. That doesn’t make it all cousins fault either just was responding to your question because it’s obvious why.

I agree it has been bad recently but I don’t think anyone has said we have had a top defense the last few years. In fact basically everyone has bashed them repeatedly and even now is talking about how impressive Flores is with little talent. It’s those early years with that nfcchampipnship team largely together when the defense was still great.

Given the offensive numbers covered it seems pretty clear there wasn’t the positive jump in the offense expected despite paying a massive amount for it. Having that type of team and salary is much different than what Dobbs on 2 mil short notice should be expected to do for obvious reasons and is why expectations are lower. It’s time we start being a bit smarter in how we build up this roster and allocate assets. 2020 when the defense fell off was the time we should have realized the issues in paying up for Cousins but here we are hoping by 2025 we have a cleared out cap instead. If you held cousins to even half the standards you try and hold Allen to you would clearly agree given what you were calling out before.

(Plus the real initial point was finding free ppd stats again and I got them now lol. It’s been fun though!)

mngopher35 Raptorman Is this even a thread about JJ making a impact when he returns anymore? I mean he is a player returning this year and not one maybe next year as you guys have chosen to take this.