Enemy Fan Forums: Denver Broncos

OK, here we are on a 3-game win streak once again on national TV vs the Joshua Dobbs Experience, with Dobbs mania sweeping the nation. Can your Denver Broncos get back to .500 in an up-for-grabs AFC?

Yes, the Vikes to are on a 2 game winning streak with Dobbs. However, as a resident of the Valley of the Sun Burn, I realize that the Cards were just 1-7 with him as the starter during the previous 8 weeks.

Another primetime game for the Broncos, this time back at home. 4-5 on the season after two massive wins against KC and Buffalo certainly has a lot of optimism flowing through Broncos Country. Vikings should be an interesting challenge. Josh Dobbs is a ton of fun and they've continued to win despite injuries to key players. Will be interesting to see if Jefferson comes back this week and what that does to their offense.

Minnesota can't really run the ball well outside of the QB position. Hockenson has been shredding teams so I expect him to continue to be a focal point. Our secondary is playing well but adding Jefferson to their offense should be interesting and I'm not sure we'll be able to adequately deal with it.

I expect Denver to come back to earth a bit in this game. I'd love to see us continue to roll, but wouldn't shock me if this game is a speed bump.

MIN 23 DEN 20

Josh Dobbs is a great story, but he's got 3 major flaws from his ARI tape, and it's carried through to his MIN debut:

1. He's actually not that accurate. Part of it is because his footwork & mechanics are not consistent...at all.

2. He's an absolute running threat, but he does bounce from the pocket before pressure is there.

3. He's very prone to making TO-worthy plays. He was in the top 5 in his ARI days (and they have a decent OL). Part of being a gunslinger.

Now, the 3 things he does really well:

1. He's smart and makes better reads than most backup / journeyman QB's - part of that NASA aerospace engineer background.

2. He's unbelievably elusive and a total threat as a runner. He makes magic happen with his feet in the open field.

3. He's not afraid to throw it downfield - so the entire playbook of routes is available to Kevin O'Connell.

So how our D fares against Dobbs is going to be telling. Besides Justin Jefferson, he has 2 other main weapons and 1 complementary player in TJ Hockenson, Jordan Addison (Chargers really screwed up by going Quentin Johnston over Addison & Brandon Flowers), and Brandon Powell (complementary guy). Obv whether or not Jefferson plays is huge, but the pass game has a lot of weapons, even before Jefferson returns. The run game is nonexistent (really) lol.

As long as they're healthy, MIN has a top 5 OL in pass protection as well, it's a big reason why Josh Dobbs has been able to adjust so seamlessly. Since they use a zone scheme, it's no surprise that Dalton Risner has started playing well again. And their 2 T's (Darrisaw & O'Neill) are just anchors in pass pro. And yeah, they have an absolutely ineffective run game, and I suspect Alexander Mattison is out. So it's Ty Chandler & Myles Gaskin as their top 2 if Mattison can't clear protocol (and only 2 skill guys have cleared in <1 week all year).

The main reason why MIN has been able to continue winning after Kirk Cousins has left, though - the D is playing great. They're a legit top 10 unit, Brian Flores has done incredible work (whether or not he's a good HC is debatable, but he's a top 5 DC hands-down). Naked aggression with blitzes are his calling card, but he disguises coverage so well and sends blitzes from different areas and different times, it's absolutely stymied teams in their 5-game winning streak. And their run D has really shored up. They don't have a great pass rush with the front 4 except for Danielle Hunter, which is why Flores blitzes so much. So that's an area that will be key with our pass pro issues (and Russ' limitations).

It's funny, because Kirk Cousins was playing at career-best levels both last year and this year (the SF MNF game was his crowning peak). If he was healthy, MIN likely would have a real shot at taking on the NFC big boys. Dobbs is a great story, and NFC is so thin at the top (SEA is the #6 seed, and very flawed, and MIN holds the #7 seed with no team within less than 1.5 games back). But he's someone if you can limit his mobility and disguise coverages, he'll make TO-worthy plays. We'll need this, because the MIN D is playing so well, and their OL pass protects so well.

2 weeks ago when Kirk Cousins went down and JJ went on IR - it looked like MIN's season was done. Turns out they were still resurgent. Unlike our win streak, though, their basis for continuing is far more sustainable (great OL play, stout D, and a QB while flawed, can make magic happen with his feet and can throw it downfield), save for the total lack of run game (which matters, but IMO that's fixable long-term far more than our OL/QB issues and D still growing).

As we saw last night, TO's can swing games to either side, and given Dobb's TO-worthy plays, it's definitely a winnable game. But unless we get those TO's, I'd probably something like 24-17 MIN.

PS - MIN's win streak started when Kirk Cousins started playing Creed before each game. It's hard not to like Josh Dobbs when you see clips like this post-game this Sunday:

Even though we'll be at home, I'm less confident in this game than I was going into last night. Part of it is because Minnesota has been playing so well both defensively and with Dobbs, and therein lies the problem. Last night we knew we could run against Buffalo, that might not be the case the way the Vikings' defense has been playing. And Dobbs, being new the system, also makes them hard to game plan against as there just simply isn't enough tape to learn tendencies and identify strengths and weaknesses and scheme against him. Getting Jefferson back, if they do, will only enhance their big-play potential.

For whatever reason, northern Colorado is laden with Midwestern transplants - my family, not me personally, but my family, included - and my local sports bar is basically an NFC North watch bar during the non-Broncos windows. As such, I've seen a lot of Vikings games this year. I was saying during their early season struggles that their fans shouldn't worry. Looks like I was right as they're coming in here red-hot.

Last night we won the time of possession battle 37:21-22:39, but Buffalo still outgained us 369 yards to 300, and had only one fewer first down (19 to 18 in our favor). We still needed win the T/O battle +4 and get a lucky break on the final play to win with a walk-off FG. The win against the Chiefs showed similar numbers in us with a large TOP advantage but both teams with much closer yardage outputs and first downs while we won the T/O battle by a huge margin.

This tells me two things - One, Sean knows our margin for error is very, very slim and as such he is doing everything he can to limit opposing possessions. Two, we've played two teams that might have been looking past us or not taking us as seriously as they should have. I don't think we catch the same break with Minnesota this week.

In their last two wins, Minnesota faced teams that were far more pass-happy than we will be; NO had 46 pass play calls to just 14 called runs, against Atlanta it was 39 passes to 25 called runs (Heinicke ran 3 times, I don't know if those were scrambles or designed QB runs) and that's with Arthur Smith calling plays. In our three game win streak, our run:pass ratio is 85:77 (Russ has run 18 times himself in the three games), indicating much more balance. Flores won't be able to get the effectiveness out of the blitz against us the way he has the last two unless Minnesota gets up big early and we have to pass, in which case we're screwed anyway as we're not a team that is equipped to play from behind.

Right now I think we're in for a good game. I see the matchup favoring Minnesota; they are pound for pound a more talented team than us but so are KC and Buffalo. I think we will see as good of a homefield environment at Mile High as we've seen in years. I'll hold off on making a score prediction but I think it will be a close, one-score game.

Dalton was really hurt that he wasn't resigned here. I don't blame him, he grew up here and playing for his favorite team was a dream of his.

If he was making a slight, I don't blame him, not because of sour grapes but because he played under the likes of Vic Fangio and Nate Hackett and the entire organization has been listless since about 2017. Minnesota has been much more stable and KOC, by everything I've heard and read, is a real HC, something he hasn't had during this entire NFL career.

I mean ANYONE who played under Hackett as a HC should question the culture. Let's also not forget that the OL coach Butch Barry would leave post-it notes instead of actually talking to players on the OL. There's no way Risner shouldn't be criticizing what happened at the end of his time here. Given we went to a heavier-gap scheme, it wasn't a fit, but he's a total natural for the zone scheme, so MIN was a match made in heaven. Glad to see he's really found a resurgence to his career. He should get paid this offseason (but would be wise to consider staying in MIN, he's a pure ZBS guy, sometimes you make more in the long run working in a place you know you'll succeed).

Back to the game - SteelKing728 if you looked at the #'s, you'd think Wilson has found his game. He hasn't. He's the most limited version of himself you can imagine right now. Unless you guys get no pressure, or blow coverage, your type of D is exactly the kind that gives Russell Wilson fits. The key will be if you guys can keep us to 2nd/3rd and long....the run game has really come on for our OL, while pass pro in 3rd and long and finding chunk plays is a mega challenge for us.

I never wish injury on anyone, but IMO MIN is better off with more Powell and less KJ Osborn. JJ / Addison / Powell fits the roles better IMO (obv Hock is the alpha TE).

And yes, I think Chandler is a more effective runner than Mattison, Mattison probably more effective inside (but man, Mattison's complete lack of vision, it's hard to call him good at anything lol). Chandler's a superior pass catcher IMO, so that helps them.

The DEN D is definitely over its MIA-WAS-CHI woes, basically since we literally upgraded 7 positions from those days (missing Baron Browning at EDGE and playing Frank Clark / Randy Gregory <who gave zero effort this year, why he's better in SF now>, both our ILB's & both our safeties were out, and replacing our CB2-3 with Moreau/McMillan). We will likely be missing PJ Locke at safety (and already lost one of our most dynamic young players in Caden Sterns there), so that's an area I expect KOC will look to exploit.

I've been very vocal in my doubts on Vance Joseph as DC, but I can't deny he's called a much better game vs. BUF (KC too, but it was easier because KC's weapons are fewer, and easier to account for). MIN's variety of weapons, their excellent OL, and Dobb's elusiveness will provide a similar test that BUF did - except the QB isn't obviously as talented, but the OL is better and the supporting cast is just as diverse. And yes, KOC is shining in his ability to adjust the O to Dobbs - what he did vs. ATL when Dobbs hadn't even taken a single practice snap (walking through each play and explaining it Dobbs with each play call, and still getting plays off before the play clock expired) was legendary (I had the MIN ML too, so I will always have a soft spot for KOC & Dobbs on that one lol).

No, even after the 12 men on the field penalty I had no confidence. That game is an asterisk, an outlier from the norm, a series of lucky bounces that don't happen with any regularity. We were clearly not the better team, but somehow, we prevailed. The Vikings have the better team so baring multiple unfortunate events (for them) I don't see us winning. Best case scenario we play our butts off and keep it very close. Reality check is the score remains close, but we were clearly outmatched.

We got nine turnovers over the past 2 games we've played and could've easily lost one of them. Is that going to continue? I'm not drinking the koolaid.....yet.

I would bet even but the most blind Minnesota fans would argue they've been punching a little above their weight class recently as well. They're five wins have come against at Bears, vs 49ers, at Packers, at Falcons and vs Saints. Other than SF, none of those teams are really world beaters. I'm not saying the Vikings are a fraud, five wins are five wins.

I would agree with this. If this were a 82 game season I think both the broncos and Vikings would be picking in the 10-20 range. But that’s the beauty of the NFL. Any given Sunday.

I don't put much into past performances in the NFL. The Vikings aren't the team that started out 1-4 nor are we the team that started out 1-5.

This should be a good test for both teams. No one will be looking past the other, no surprises. I'm curious to see what our defense does to follow up our last 2 outings. Kind of tough acts to follow. Not looking for much to change on offense. You'll have to respect our mid-deep routes but Russ rarely sees or connects on them. Quite a draw back for the "Gilman" system. If/when he starts connecting our running game will go wild.

Anyway, should be fun, looking forward to it.

People keep on saying that the Broncos don’t defend the run well, but they forget what we did to the Raiders in game one when we were missing so many of our starters. It all depends on the focus of our defense. If we’re facing Patrick Mahomes it’s crazy to really work on stopping the run. That’s not the big threat. Same thing with Josh Allen. With Minnesota we’ll just have to see the flow of the game. If The Vikings take the position that they’re going to switch their whole offense and focus on running the ball, we can do that and we need to do that and we’re certainly capable of doing that.

Broncos 30
Vikings 10

Run the ball, run it again, throw in the play action game, play fundamentally sound defense and let the chips fall where they may.

27-22 Broncos

Go BRONCOS!!

So what are Denver's X-factors? I'd say, on offense, Jerry Jeudy will have a big game this week. And on defense, we'll see Zac Allen put a lot of pressure on Dobbs up the middle, but expect Barron Browning to get home and sack the Pass-tronaut, maybe twice. We may not have as many takeaways this game, but look for more pressures and sacks.

I am a little surprised the broncos are favorites in this one (I would have expected a even). Vikes are not 6-4 for nothing (yeah they played some lousy and mediocre teams but they also beat the niners). Team as a whole is no slouch. They have a good D with talented pass rushers. On the O, Dobbs is very elusive coupled with Broncos LBs are not that fast. If Dobbs isn't contained, gonna be a long night. Hoping SP makes sure there is a spy on him. I don't feel as confident as everyone else on this one. I hope I'm wrong.

The Broncos aren’t actually favored. There’s the three points that go to the home team. And we’re only in the plus side by two. So that really means that they see us as one point less than the Vikings. I know it doesn’t work that way and gambling, but that’s exactly what the pundits are saying: We’re not as good as the Vikings. Look at most score prediction shows this week and my guess is the majority are taking the Vikings.

I don’t think it’s very sustainable, Dobbs single handily cost Arizona multiple games they should have otherwise won thanks to his bad decisions and inaccuracy. I think O’Connell was able to use Dobbs mobility to surprise defenses those first two weeks with a new QB running the show throwing out wrinkles they hadn’t put on tape before but I think DCs will be much more prepared for Dobbs in the coming weeks n game plan to exploit his weakness talking advantage of his penchant for bad decisions under pressure, inaccuracy and poor ball placement. People acting like Dobbs is the next big thing are utterly delusional laughable characters with the memory of a goldfish. Dobbs is not that guy.

Should be a good game !! Both teams have rebounded from their rough starts early in the season. Controlling the LOS will be crucial. I see a nailbiter & turnovers for either team could doom their chances.

What’s interesting is that Minnesota had a rough start to their season and there’s no reason for it other than the other teams they played were better. The Broncos had changes all over the place but especially head coach and offenses and defense and people were injured. There was a reason the Broncos started slow. So I I think that’s an indicator that the Broncos actually are in a better place now because we’re improving and Minnesota is just playing teams that are not as good as they are. On the contrary our winning streak is against or includes the bills and the Chiefs.

POUND THAT ROCK, SEAN. EVEN IF IT BORES US TO TEARS!!!

[...] things will likely come down to a key turnover by one team that the other side capitalizes on to give them an advantage.

If it all comes down to that, my money is with Denver. Russ is erring on the safest-of-safe cares of the ball and Sean has switched to ultra-conservative run-first O, whereas the D (as I predicted early in the season) is turning into an aggressive takeaway machine. It doesn't make for great-looking football (particularly on the offensive side), and the D will probably be a coin-toss in every play, but it has given us a few recent pleasant surprises, so I don't mind sticking to the same plan this weekend.

It will be a fun, tight game, and I wouldn't dare to predict a winner. But my orange-and-blue heart does.

Not overlooking the challenge for Denver, playing another team with a great winning streak. That stated, Dobbs is overrated, and still fairly inexperienced IMO. Seven wins in his eight year career, and multiple teams have let him go. I like Denver’s chances.

Denver isn't overlooking anyone right now and they shouldn't. Dobbs looked a little sloopy early against the Saints and got away with being undisciplined. The Vikings were able to get an early lead and let their defense be aggressive. It's a very similar look to what happens with teams deploying great defense. Once that pressure campaign begins the opponent's offense has to dial up big plays to reign in the dogs. Dobbs plays proficiently when leading.

Denver needs to stick to the run script. Make the Vikings Defense tired down the stretch. Control the clock and win the game. The most disciplined team wins Sunday night.

Dobbs threw a couple passes in both games that should of been picked and was lucky they weren’t picked.
I don’t have any faith in Vance Joseph but with the talent he has he should be able to exploit Dobbs weaknesses and confuse him with coverages frustrating him with pressure. O’Connell was able to use Dobbs mobility to surprise defenses those first two weeks with a new QB running the show throwing out wrinkles they hadn’t put on tape before but I think DCs will be much more prepared for Dobbs in the coming weeks n game plan to exploit his weakness talking advantage of his penchant for bad decisions under pressure, inaccuracy and poor ball placement. Whether this week or next in the coming weeks I think he hits the same wall he did in AZ once DCs caught on.

Should be a good game. I like our chances. The only impressive team the Vikings beat in their streak was the 49ers. We beat the Bears and Packers too. The Falcons and Saints are on the same level as the Packers.

Vikings have a very good defense, but so do we.

If brains were the single most important aspect of playing football, then Brett Favre would've washed out before he even got done with his rookie season as a backup whatever third stringer or so for Atlanta - his wonderlic score, like his maturity as an adult was in the teens not even approaching the 26 on average score for an NFL QB. Yet being a moron never hurt Favre on the field obviously as he's got a SB and a gold jacket. Being somewhat subjective here as a disclaimer - was born in Cambridge to a Haaavaad man that had to pay the sum of $26 at the now Brigham Womens Hospital in Cambridge, and asked he for a refund as informed me often I will defend the IQ of the QB in the NFL in one particular manner as follows:

FitzMagic and of course now FitzMagic II aka Dobbs, are ideally suited for one particular purpose with their oversized IQ's - being able to come in on short notice.

Dobbs couldn't ever get off the bench but for think a couple of starts with Pittsburgh or maybe mop up duty - with the Titans he languished on the bench until both Tannehill was injured and Willis showed a total inability to grasp the playbook.

Dobbs like FitzMagic has limitations that are easily preyed upon by the NFL DC - in FitzMagic's case a big man, with a big gun, he really was a gun slinger and not a guy that wanted to throw behind the chains - that works for only so long before the eventual INTs start coming into play.

Both Dobbs and FitzMagic are the ideal "mercenaries" or hired guns that NFL coaches and front offices love - as when there's a significant injury to a starter and either the QB2 isn't ready, or you know you don't have a QB2 that can win a handful of games until the season ends - who you gonna call - these guys!!!

Neither will ever be a starter long-term - the best seasons FitzMagic ever had as a starter was with the Bills and think he got two full or almost full seasons in & of course Dobbs every time he starts and gets past however many started for with the Cardinals then that's a new record. I really like and respect both players - but they both have limitations and are best suited for the Hired Gun role - or for FitzMagic now making commercials with his NFL brethren!

...his main weakness is his throwing motion; he lacks accuracy and is apt to lock onto a receiver regardless of it being a "bad look". Those two issues have caused him to not be able to be consistent and inaccurate - he's not a natural thrower - somewhat of an outstanding athlete playing QB - for example was a four-star recruit coming out of HS. Imagine that life at TN in college, what's your day like - well I'm the QB for the university and I'm studying aerospace engineering - oh, really - what do you do for fun - origami?

He's a smart guy, a heckuva an athlete who has a 4.64 on a 40 time so always a threat to run, and he's a guy that plays with those limitations effectively for the most part. Dobbs is somewhat robotic in his motion, not able to get the ball out accurately too often and just doesn't seem to be able to find his feet when in the middle of the throw, and not able to get a full turn as well, too often throws off an unbalanced platform. Dobbs is kind of like Josh Allen was at Wyoming before Daboll fixed his motion - obviously not the arm strength that Allen has, really who does have that - but he's got a 6'3" and 215lb build so should be able to whip it better if had better mechanics - of course only in my opinion as Dobbs would probably just say thanks but which one of us is a QB in the NFL.