Goal #1: Fix. The. Trenches. - OL & DL Discussion

slapnut19
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Goal #1: Fix. The. Trenches. - OL & DL Discussion May 3, 2024 12:25:51 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by slapnut19 on May 3, 2024 12:25:51 GMT -6

May 3, 2024 12:23:50 GMT -6 Uncle said:

May 3, 2024 9:55:25 GMT -6 Purple Pain said:

According to The Athletic’s Alec Lewis, money is evidently the sticking point for Minnesota’s front office and Risner’s free agency. Lewis wrote this week, “Until free agent Dalton Risner lowers his monetary ask (he recently switched agents to Drew Rosenhaus, with whom the Vikings have a great relationship), it’s difficult to see a path toward his return.”

Risner’s price demands are unclear, but they must be significantly higher than his September addition last year to Minnesota’s roster.

Honestly, I can't see how Risner, or his new agent (Drew Rosenhaus), can demand a "significantly" higher contract than the one he received last September form Minnnesota. For one, Risner's PFF grades in 2023 were actually slighty "below" what his PFF grades were the previous 4 years in Denver and the worst of his entire 5-yr career:

And yes, I'm well aware that PFF grades aren't the "be-all / end-all" of a player's performance, but it's not unreasonable to suggest that Risner didn't perform "significantly" better in 2024 than he did in Denver.

Second, to my knowledge, Riser hasn't even received a phone call from any team out there to bring him in for a visit - it's not just "crickets" for him in Minnesota - it's "crickets" for him around the entire NFL. I could see a future scenario where a few teams show interest and maybe Rosenhaus can start pitting teams against each other and maybe drive his price up a bit, but you've had the likes of Dan Feeney sign before Risner and no one has shown any interest at this point.

Just like last season, Risner is going to have to face the truth that if he wants to continue playing in the NFL, he's going to have to accept backup-level IOL money and probably on a short, 1-yr deal for anyone to be interested. I will admit that it's a little odd because IOL players who can pass-block like he can - regardless of the run-blocking - often get a few phone calls when free agency opens, so I have no idea why no one is showing him any interest whatsoever.

Lastly, speaking of Drew Rosenhaus, he's also the agent for Connor Williams, who's still recovering from a torn ACL he suffered during Week 14. If Williams' recovery goes smoothly and he's exepcted to play NFL football at any point during the 2024 season, Rosenhaus might be getting more calls for Williams than he will for Risner.

if Williams is healthy enough to play I'd rather roll the dice with him instead of Risner

Brandon
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Goal #1: Fix. The. Trenches. - OL & DL Discussion May 3, 2024 12:26:47 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Brandon on May 3, 2024 12:26:47 GMT -6

May 3, 2024 12:23:50 GMT -6 Uncle said:

May 3, 2024 9:55:25 GMT -6 Purple Pain said:

According to The Athletic’s Alec Lewis, money is evidently the sticking point for Minnesota’s front office and Risner’s free agency. Lewis wrote this week, “Until free agent Dalton Risner lowers his monetary ask (he recently switched agents to Drew Rosenhaus, with whom the Vikings have a great relationship), it’s difficult to see a path toward his return.”

Risner’s price demands are unclear, but they must be significantly higher than his September addition last year to Minnesota’s roster.

Honestly, I can't see how Risner, or his new agent (Drew Rosenhaus), can demand a "significantly" higher contract than the one he received last September form Minnnesota. For one, Risner's PFF grades in 2023 were actually slighty "below" what his PFF grades were the previous 4 years in Denver and the worst of his entire 5-yr career:

And yes, I'm well aware that PFF grades aren't the "be-all / end-all" of a player's performance, but it's not unreasonable to suggest that Risner didn't perform "significantly" better in 2024 than he did in Denver.

Second, to my knowledge, Riser hasn't even received a phone call from any team out there to bring him in for a visit - it's not just "crickets" for him in Minnesota - it's "crickets" for him around the entire NFL. I could see a future scenario where a few teams show interest and maybe Rosenhaus can start pitting teams against each other and maybe drive his price up a bit, but you've had the likes of Dan Feeney sign before Risner and no one has shown any interest at this point.

Just like last season, Risner is going to have to face the truth that if he wants to continue playing in the NFL, he's going to have to accept backup-level IOL money and probably on a short, 1-yr deal for anyone to be interested. I will admit that it's a little odd because IOL players who can pass-block like he can - regardless of the run-blocking - often get a few phone calls when free agency opens, so I have no idea why no one is showing him any interest whatsoever.

Lastly, speaking of Drew Rosenhaus, he's also the agent for Connor Williams, who's still recovering from a torn ACL he suffered during Week 14. If Williams' recovery goes smoothly and he's exepcted to play NFL football at any point during the 2024 season, Rosenhaus might be getting more calls for Williams than he will for Risner.

Frankly, I'm more interested in Williams than Risner. Even if he's going to miss a good chunk of the coming season.

Drank
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Goal #1: Fix. The. Trenches. - OL & DL Discussion May 3, 2024 12:47:42 GMT -6 via mobile mgb8 likes this

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Post by Drank on May 3, 2024 12:47:42 GMT -6

This are the two areas we wasn’t able to address the needs to my satisfaction.

Both lines are piss poor overall which will weigh us down against the big boys.

The DL lacks talent. Phillips the best yet just solid. We need Jaquelin Roy to take a huge leap.

OL OT looks fine but the interior look suspect. Are we really just gonna hand Brandel the job? All 3 IOL are below average players right now.

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Goal #1: Fix. The. Trenches. - OL & DL Discussion May 3, 2024 12:50:22 GMT -6 via mobile Danchat likes this

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Post by Drank on May 3, 2024 12:50:22 GMT -6

May 3, 2024 12:26:47 GMT -6 Brandon said:

May 3, 2024 12:23:50 GMT -6 Uncle said:

Honestly, I can't see how Risner, or his new agent (Drew Rosenhaus), can demand a "significantly" higher contract than the one he received last September form Minnnesota. For one, Risner's PFF grades in 2023 were actually slighty "below" what his PFF grades were the previous 4 years in Denver and the worst of his entire 5-yr career:

And yes, I'm well aware that PFF grades aren't the "be-all / end-all" of a player's performance, but it's not unreasonable to suggest that Risner didn't perform "significantly" better in 2024 than he did in Denver.

Second, to my knowledge, Riser hasn't even received a phone call from any team out there to bring him in for a visit - it's not just "crickets" for him in Minnesota - it's "crickets" for him around the entire NFL. I could see a future scenario where a few teams show interest and maybe Rosenhaus can start pitting teams against each other and maybe drive his price up a bit, but you've had the likes of Dan Feeney sign before Risner and no one has shown any interest at this point.

Just like last season, Risner is going to have to face the truth that if he wants to continue playing in the NFL, he's going to have to accept backup-level IOL money and probably on a short, 1-yr deal for anyone to be interested. I will admit that it's a little odd because IOL players who can pass-block like he can - regardless of the run-blocking - often get a few phone calls when free agency opens, so I have no idea why no one is showing him any interest whatsoever.

Lastly, speaking of Drew Rosenhaus, he's also the agent for Connor Williams, who's still recovering from a torn ACL he suffered during Week 14. If Williams' recovery goes smoothly and he's exepcted to play NFL football at any point during the 2024 season, Rosenhaus might be getting more calls for Williams than he will for Risner.

Frankly, I'm more interested in Williams than Risner. Even if he's going to miss a good chunk of the coming season.

From my understanding Williams injury is significant. So I’m not sure we can wait for him to maybe or maybe not be able to play. Get Risner or Van whatever his name is,something. The IOL piss poor on paper.

Last Edit: May 3, 2024 12:51:13 GMT -6 by Drank

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Goal #1: Fix. The. Trenches. - OL & DL Discussion May 3, 2024 14:06:11 GMT -6 ukvikings likes this

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Post by VikingsVictorious on May 3, 2024 14:06:11 GMT -6

Dallas Turner was one very big step forward in fixing the Trenches. Hopefully lightning strikes with one or more of our late Draft Picks and UDFAs. We have some money left to spend on FAs this year. Let's do it. Next year I recommend really focusing on trench players in the draft and in free agency.

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Goal #1: Fix. The. Trenches. - OL & DL Discussion May 3, 2024 14:33:32 GMT -6

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Post by snotbubbles on May 3, 2024 14:33:32 GMT -6

Apr 5, 2024 16:04:45 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Apr 5, 2024 9:48:51 GMT -6 Purple Pain said:

Now the best plan of action is to have Brandel compete with Dan Feeney and likely another free agent who they grab a little later in the offseason. Maybe they pick somebody in the fourth round too and just have an open competition. It’s not ideal.

Suddenly I yearn for the days when we had Jesse Davis vs Chris Reed at guard over Brandel vs Feeney... might as well wheel Dakota Dozier out for yet another competition. And it's not as if we plugged in a quality player at RG.

Apr 5, 2024 9:48:51 GMT -6 Purple Pain said:

I get the impression from his tweets that Risner thinks he’s worth top dollar among guards and nobody in the NFL thinks so.

Wasn't Risner's tweet saying "I just want to be paid like a starter"? I don't think he ever implied he's worth top dollar. He only got 1/$4M last year and base staring guard pay (see John Simpson, Nick Allegretti, Patrick Mekari) is about $5-6M. That's probably what he wants but teams aren't offering that much.

As a fan, I honestly cant remember a time when we didnt need one, if not both guard spots upgraded. Same with the center position. We reek on the interior oline.

dougpaschal Team Captain Posts: 1,880 Likes: 488	Goal #1: Fix. The. Trenches. - OL & DL Discussion May 5, 2024 14:08:34 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by dougpaschal on May 5, 2024 14:08:34 GMT -6 So this doesn't need to be fixed. Cross that of the list 9 min of Harrison Phillips He gets to the 🏈
	Last Edit: May 6, 2024 9:39:23 GMT -6 by dougpaschal

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Goal #1: Fix. The. Trenches. - OL & DL Discussion May 5, 2024 16:38:12 GMT -6 via mobile kmillard and snotbubbles like this

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Post by PurpleFloyd on May 5, 2024 16:38:12 GMT -6

May 3, 2024 14:33:32 GMT -6 snotbubbles said:

Apr 5, 2024 16:04:45 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Suddenly I yearn for the days when we had Jesse Davis vs Chris Reed at guard over Brandel vs Feeney... might as well wheel Dakota Dozier out for yet another competition. And it's not as if we plugged in a quality player at RG.

Wasn't Risner's tweet saying "I just want to be paid like a starter"? I don't think he ever implied he's worth top dollar. He only got 1/$4M last year and base staring guard pay (see John Simpson, Nick Allegretti, Patrick Mekari) is about $5-6M. That's probably what he wants but teams aren't offering that much.

As a fan, I honestly cant remember a time when we didnt need one, if not both guard spots upgraded. Same with the center position. We reek on the interior oline.

It’s pretty much been a curse since Wilf fired Tice.

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Goal #1: Fix. The. Trenches. - OL & DL Discussion May 6, 2024 7:30:26 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by mgb8 on May 6, 2024 7:30:26 GMT -6

One thing to consider, at least short term, is that Flores seems to have specific likes/wants for DLinemen. So while I, like many, was all about Jordan Davis 3 drafts ago rather than the failed RAS draft that we got, not sure that he fits what Flores wants (though I’m sure that Flores would make good use).

It looks like Flores likes longer guys for one of the spots, and then mobile “do it all / big 3T, shorter 5T, smaller NT” guys for the other two. Tillery, Ward and Williams fit the “longer guy” mold and Phillips, Roy, Bullard, Rodriguez fit the other. The UDFA don’t exactly bring a lot of confidence (though this is before seeing them play, just on reports), so would love to see the Vikes add another vet in the “big 3T+” mold. The guy out there that I think could outperform is Marlon Davidson, a former 2nd round pick who has flashed and gotten PT on decent DL, but for whatever reason hasn’t quite stuck. IMO, Davidson likely has more natural talent than any of our current players - his issues are probably personality / maturity / coachability and maybe character (but obvi don’t have insight into that).

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Goal #1: Fix. The. Trenches. - OL & DL Discussion May 6, 2024 8:30:12 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on May 6, 2024 8:30:12 GMT -6

May 6, 2024 7:30:26 GMT -6 mgb8 said:

One thing to consider, at least short term, is that Flores seems to have specific likes/wants for DLinemen. So while I, like many, was all about Jordan Davis 3 drafts ago rather than the failed RAS draft that we got, not sure that he fits what Flores wants (though I’m sure that Flores would make good use).

It looks like Flores likes longer guys for one of the spots, and then mobile “do it all / big 3T, shorter 5T, smaller NT” guys for the other two. Tillery, Ward and Williams fit the “longer guy” mold and Phillips, Roy, Bullard, Rodriguez fit the other. The UDFA don’t exactly bring a lot of confidence (though this is before seeing them play, just on reports), so would love to see the Vikes add another vet in the “big 3T+” mold. The guy out there that I think could outperform is Marlon Davidson, a former 2nd round pick who has flashed and gotten PT on decent DL, but for whatever reason hasn’t quite stuck. IMO, Davidson likely has more natural talent than any of our current players - his issues are probably personality / maturity / coachability and maybe character (but obvi don’t have insight into that).

That's a fair point, though Flores wasn't here when we skipped on Davis/Hamilton/whatever and traded back to draft Cine. I would have been curious who he would have drafted. I believe that was the year the Steelers to Pickett, so we don't have much to go by unfortunately.

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Goal #1: Fix. The. Trenches. - OL & DL Discussion May 8, 2024 9:35:06 GMT -6 Brandon likes this

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Post by Purple Pain on May 8, 2024 9:35:06 GMT -6

Warren Ludford: A deep dive into the Vikings new offensive line man

Dane Brugler, The Athletic

STRENGTHS: Looks the part with his frame and body length … displays functional athleticism and footwork … gains proper depth and smartly uses angles to cut off rush lanes before they develop … plays long and punctual in pass protection and stays locked on once latched … sinks his hips to anchor and slow down the charge of bull rushers … runs his feet and clears out defensive linemen on angle-drive blocks once connected … made key improvements with his technical approach and recoveries on the 2023 tape … very intelligent on and off the field with an impressive personal resume … proven toughness and played through most of the 2022 season with a torn labrum … there is no substitute for experience, and he has 52 collegiate starts under his belt.

WEAKNESSES: Moves with tightness in his hips, hindering his redirects and recoveries … often undersets and is tardy when attempting to re fit … doesn’t have ideal lateral range by NFL standards … eagerness to make contact can disrupt timing and leave him bending at the waist … play strength is only average, which shows when attempting to sustain his blocks … gets away with holds (also flagged for four holding calls in 2023) … suffered a torn labrum in his shoulder (September 2022) and missed two games, but played through the injury and waited to have surgery until after the season (December 2022), which sidelined him for 2023 spring practices at Oklahoma … a left tackle only in college and lacks functional experience at other positions.

SUMMARY: A one-year starter at Oklahoma, Rouse replaced Anton Harrison at left tackle in former offensive coordinator Jeff Lebby’s up-tempo, RPO-based scheme. Considered a likelyundrafted NFL prospect after four seasons at Stanford, he transferred to Norman for his final college season and made noticeable improvements, which turned him into a draftable option. In pass protection, Rouse works hard to maximize his length and has learned to trust his spatial awareness, although NFL rushers will be able to expose his stiffness when attempting to redirect. It might not always look pretty, but he has enough drive to flush out defenders in the run game. Overall, Rouse might not have a distinguishing trait to hang his hat on, but he has NFL size and smarts with passable athleti cism and strength to compete for an NFL roster spot. He is a potential swing tackle at the next level.

Rest at the link above. ^^^

Brandon
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Goal #1: Fix. The. Trenches. - OL & DL Discussion May 8, 2024 11:45:12 GMT -6 via mobile Danchat likes this

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Post by Brandon on May 8, 2024 11:45:12 GMT -6

May 8, 2024 9:35:06 GMT -6 Purple Pain said:

Warren Ludford: A deep dive into the Vikings new offensive line man

Dane Brugler, The Athletic

STRENGTHS: Looks the part with his frame and body length … displays functional athleticism and footwork … gains proper depth and smartly uses angles to cut off rush lanes before they develop … plays long and punctual in pass protection and stays locked on once latched … sinks his hips to anchor and slow down the charge of bull rushers … runs his feet and clears out defensive linemen on angle-drive blocks once connected … made key improvements with his technical approach and recoveries on the 2023 tape … very intelligent on and off the field with an impressive personal resume … proven toughness and played through most of the 2022 season with a torn labrum … there is no substitute for experience, and he has 52 collegiate starts under his belt.

WEAKNESSES: Moves with tightness in his hips, hindering his redirects and recoveries … often undersets and is tardy when attempting to re fit … doesn’t have ideal lateral range by NFL standards … eagerness to make contact can disrupt timing and leave him bending at the waist … play strength is only average, which shows when attempting to sustain his blocks … gets away with holds (also flagged for four holding calls in 2023) … suffered a torn labrum in his shoulder (September 2022) and missed two games, but played through the injury and waited to have surgery until after the season (December 2022), which sidelined him for 2023 spring practices at Oklahoma … a left tackle only in college and lacks functional experience at other positions.

SUMMARY: A one-year starter at Oklahoma, Rouse replaced Anton Harrison at left tackle in former offensive coordinator Jeff Lebby’s up-tempo, RPO-based scheme. Considered a likelyundrafted NFL prospect after four seasons at Stanford, he transferred to Norman for his final college season and made noticeable improvements, which turned him into a draftable option. In pass protection, Rouse works hard to maximize his length and has learned to trust his spatial awareness, although NFL rushers will be able to expose his stiffness when attempting to redirect. It might not always look pretty, but he has enough drive to flush out defenders in the run game. Overall, Rouse might not have a distinguishing trait to hang his hat on, but he has NFL size and smarts with passable athleti cism and strength to compete for an NFL roster spot. He is a potential swing tackle at the next level.

Rest at the link above. ^^^

I still wonder what the chances are he ends up at OG? They mentioned it being a possibility after drafting him. I think he's going to start as a swing tackle and they'll let him pass or fail there first.

Last Edit: May 8, 2024 12:03:18 GMT -6 by Danchat

dougpaschal Team Captain Posts: 1,880 Likes: 488	Goal #1: Fix. The. Trenches. - OL & DL Discussion May 9, 2024 8:34:07 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by dougpaschal on May 9, 2024 8:34:07 GMT -6 LAS VEGAS, NEVADA - APRIL 27: Garrett Bradbury attends the Baller Dream celebrity poker tournament at Circa Resort & Casino on April 27, 2024 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

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Goal #1: Fix. The. Trenches. - OL & DL Discussion May 9, 2024 11:36:12 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on May 9, 2024 11:36:12 GMT -6

May 9, 2024 11:21:58 GMT -6 dougpaschal said:

Is this the man who stepped on Kirk Cousins foot, not once but three times?

Kwesi and O'Connell told Ed to step on Kirk's foot so they'd have more reasons not to sign him. Duh!! The achilles finally gave up and here we are........two new QBs. *whistle*

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Goal #1: Fix. The. Trenches. - OL & DL Discussion May 9, 2024 12:37:07 GMT -6

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Post by dougpaschal on May 9, 2024 12:37:07 GMT -6

May 9, 2024 11:36:12 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

May 9, 2024 11:21:58 GMT -6 dougpaschal said:

Is this the man who stepped on Kirk Cousins foot, not once but three times?

Kwesi and O'Connell told Ed to step on Kirk's foot so they'd have more reasons not to sign him. Duh!! The achilles finally gave up and here we are........two new QBs. *whistle*

When was the last Ingram foot stepping on incident? Hopefully he grows out of that