Potential Trade Idea - Cam Akers

diehardtwinsfan
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Potential Trade Idea - Cam Akers Sept 19, 2023 8:51:19 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Sept 19, 2023 8:51:19 GMT -6

Sept 18, 2023 11:49:32 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Sept 18, 2023 11:11:02 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

Back on the RB topic (if it's OK to stray from Cousins)... in 2022, the current Vikings staff gave Mattison every indication they were done with him when his contract expired, less playing time than he ever had under Zimmer. He cleaned out his locker and said his goodbyes...and then, surprise, they gave him a contract offer after he did a bit of free agent touring (and found out no one else was going to give him a starting job or contract). So, this staff knew they were letting a starting-caliber (maybe top 10) RB and replacing him with a backup, someone who can be most effective if he's a change-of-pace from a starting RB. They either decided to let the running game suck this year or they thought Chandler or McBride would become starting-level RBs. If the latter, they might be pathetic talent evaluators.

Now, if you want to get back to Cousins...if I was him, and realized team management has given him ZERO threat at RB, I would be pissed. Bad enough that his OL protection is terrible, now opponents don't even have to respect the threat of Dalvin Cook or some competent RB. Every DL will have their ears pinned back to go after Kirk because the past two games have proven we can only win with a monster passing game. Cousins better be tough...

Don't forget, they actually tried to sign my top FA budget RB, Montgomery, before they settled on Mattison. So they KNEW they needed better and still didn't bother even attempting upgrading the position once their plan A fell through.

One thing is for sure, RB will be a position fans will be clamoring for in the draft after claiming all off season the position has little value and RBBC is fine.

This is probably closer to the truth. They had a budget as to what they would pay. To be fair this is a position they don't have to draft in early rounds (though good run blocking and appropriate scheme fit come into play here, as these guys aren't all plug and play), but it's something they have clearly decided to not allocate much capital to... and yeah, it means everyone knows they are going to pass. I'd argue though you can counter this quite a bit with quick passes to WRs running slants. Cousins can hit them in stride, and that will force defenders to slow down a bit...

Breeze
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Potential Trade Idea - Cam Akers Sept 19, 2023 9:07:55 GMT -6

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Post by Breeze on Sept 19, 2023 9:07:55 GMT -6

I didn't see this thread before I began berating the RB position on the Risner thread.

The o-line needs some help/work/fixing, but it's impossible to fairly evaluate the run game without plugging in a legit starter at RB.

Mattison has no shake and his SITH number is well below league average. I wouldn't put money on Akkers being a big upgrade, but something needs change in the way the RB position is being (mis)handled.

Last Edit: Sept 19, 2023 9:08:20 GMT -6 by Breeze

Jor-El
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Potential Trade Idea - Cam Akers Sept 19, 2023 13:51:51 GMT -6

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Post by Jor-El on Sept 19, 2023 13:51:51 GMT -6

Sept 19, 2023 9:07:55 GMT -6 Breeze said:

Mattison has no shake and his SITH number is well below league average. I wouldn't put money on Akkers being a big upgrade, but something needs change in the way the RB position is being (mis)handled.

I thought Chandler would be playing more and better by now. A lot of people did, maybe the coaches included, and he still may.

But the attitude that RBs, especially those used in an RBBC, can be acquired easily in the late rounds, is misleading. For every Austin Ekeler, there are dozens of late RBs that are NFL washouts. Vikings need to either draft a RB earlier or draft a LOT of late RBs.

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Potential Trade Idea - Cam Akers Sept 19, 2023 14:38:22 GMT -6

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Post by Breeze on Sept 19, 2023 14:38:22 GMT -6

Sept 19, 2023 13:51:51 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

Sept 19, 2023 9:07:55 GMT -6 Breeze said:

Mattison has no shake and his SITH number is well below league average. I wouldn't put money on Akkers being a big upgrade, but something needs change in the way the RB position is being (mis)handled.

I thought Chandler would be playing more and better by now. A lot of people did, maybe the coaches included, and he still may.

But the attitude that RBs, especially those used in an RBBC, can be acquired easily in the late rounds, is misleading. For every Austin Ekeler, there are dozens of late RBs that are NFL washouts. Vikings need to either draft a RB earlier or draft a LOT of late RBs.

I honestly think they got caught in between regimes and Cook's bloated contract when it comes to RB....similar to where they could be at QB.

I was a huge Mattison fan when he was at Boise and thought Spielman picking in the 3rd was a good move. I don't understand why they never used him in tandem with Cook vs just as a replacement and to spell him. It may have prolonged Cook's peak if he and Mattison had been sharing the load more.

Watching Mattison now, it looks like he doesn't have the same physical ability in the quickness department....and maybe not the downfield route skills I was hoping for. But he was drafted by a different system, so I can't fault Kwesi if he doesn't fit now.

I would think Chandler or even Kene would make more sense for this offense in terms of versatility and top end speed/shiftiness...I could only speculate as to why neither of them has gotten more burn. Kene is injured obviously, but he would seem like the perfect skillset in this offense to pair with `another guy.

It remains to be seen what this staff can do in developing a RB or run game. It's been some time since the Vikes had a RB that was a project or had to learn much other than blitz pick-up and the basics of the offense. Chester Taylor, AP and Dalvin Cook...all of those guys had exceptional talent for the position, with Taylor probably having the best all around skillset.

But I agree, it's worth a day 2 pick for a RB if the right guy is there. The trick is to move on from him before that second contract...or it was. Now the market is crashing for them and it might be more like TE used to be.

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Potential Trade Idea - Cam Akers Sept 19, 2023 14:43:46 GMT -6 via mobile diehardtwinsfan, kmillard, and 3 more like this

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Post by FSUVike on Sept 19, 2023 14:43:46 GMT -6

Sept 18, 2023 13:38:20 GMT -6 lostdonkey said:

Week 1:
Mattison vs Tampa: 11car/34yds, 3rec/10yds, 1 rec TD
Cook vs Buffalo: 13car/33yds, 3rec/26yds

Week 2:
Mattison vs Philly: 8car/28yds, 3rec/11yds, 1 fumble
Cook vs Dallas: 4car/7yds, 1rec/5yds, 1fumble

Was it really a mistake to get rid of Cook and his salary? A least our crummy rb is relatively cheap now.

Mattison's pass drops and fumble are concerning, no argument there. As far as the running game, as others have said, I'm more concerned about the Oline and mismatched scheme. The play after Quessenberry came in, Mattison had a nice gain running behind him on the outside. On his touchdown, he caught a swing pass and made a guy miss in space to score. I wasn't ever expecting him to be a home run threat, just to be able to take what was given to him, maybe dodge a one-on-one tackle once in a while, fall forward, and not be a liability. Something like the Latavious Murray year. He's fallen short of that, but the new "physical" scheme is a total disaster. I honestly don't think Adrian in his prime would be doing that much better in this run game, let alone Akers. At this point I've accepted that this team won't have a run game until the line is fixed, and either they aren't interested in fixing it, or they don't know how.

Y'all are missing what donkey pointed out: wrong scheme used incorrectly. Cleveland and Bradbury were plus run blockers before O'Connell came to town. Plus run blockers in an Outside Zone Blocking Scheme. They are not Inside Zone or Gap run blockers. They're not beefy enough.

And he simply won't run the ball anywhere but up the middle.

This isn't a talent issue, be it on the Interior or at RB. It's a stubborn playcaller issue. Pure and simple.

Until KOC puts his ego on the shelf and goes back to the scheme that maximizes the athleticism of the Interior Offensive Line and dials up more Student Body Left and Student Body Right calls it isn't going to matter a fig who's carrying the ball.

Last Edit: Sept 19, 2023 14:44:21 GMT -6 by FSUVike

Breeze
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Potential Trade Idea - Cam Akers Sept 19, 2023 14:53:02 GMT -6 FSUVike likes this

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Post by Breeze on Sept 19, 2023 14:53:02 GMT -6

Sept 19, 2023 14:43:46 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

Sept 18, 2023 13:38:20 GMT -6 lostdonkey said:

Week 1:
Mattison vs Tampa: 11car/34yds, 3rec/10yds, 1 rec TD
Cook vs Buffalo: 13car/33yds, 3rec/26yds

Week 2:
Mattison vs Philly: 8car/28yds, 3rec/11yds, 1 fumble
Cook vs Dallas: 4car/7yds, 1rec/5yds, 1fumble

Was it really a mistake to get rid of Cook and his salary? A least our crummy rb is relatively cheap now.

Mattison's pass drops and fumble are concerning, no argument there. As far as the running game, as others have said, I'm more concerned about the Oline and mismatched scheme. The play after Quessenberry came in, Mattison had a nice gain running behind him on the outside. On his touchdown, he caught a swing pass and made a guy miss in space to score. I wasn't ever expecting him to be a home run threat, just to be able to take what was given to him, maybe dodge a one-on-one tackle once in a while, fall forward, and not be a liability. Something like the Latavious Murray year. He's fallen short of that, but the new "physical" scheme is a total disaster. I honestly don't think Adrian in his prime would be doing that much better in this run game, let alone Akers. At this point I've accepted that this team won't have a run game until the line is fixed, and either they aren't interested in fixing it, or they don't know how.

Y'all are missing what donkey pointed out: wrong scheme used incorrectly. Cleveland and Bradbury were plus run blockers before O'Connell came to town. Plus run blockers in an Outside Zone Blocking Scheme. They are not Inside Zone or Gap run blockers. They're not beefy enough.

And he simply won't run the ball anywhere but up the middle.

This isn't a talent issue, be it on the Interior or at RB. It's a stubborn playcaller issue. Pure and simple.

Until KOC puts his ego on the shelf and goes back to the scheme that maximizes the athleticism of the Interior Offensive Line and dials up more Student Body Left and Student Body Right calls it isn't going to matter a fig who's carrying the ball.

I think there is a lot of merit to this.

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Potential Trade Idea - Cam Akers Sept 20, 2023 16:29:53 GMT -6

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Post by Jor-El on Sept 20, 2023 16:29:53 GMT -6

Sept 19, 2023 14:43:46 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

Y'all are missing what donkey pointed out: wrong scheme used incorrectly. Cleveland and Bradbury were plus run blockers before O'Connell came to town. Plus run blockers in an Outside Zone Blocking Scheme. They are not Inside Zone or Gap run blockers. They're not beefy enough.

And he simply won't run the ball anywhere but up the middle.

This isn't a talent issue, be it on the Interior or at RB. It's a stubborn playcaller issue. Pure and simple.

Until KOC puts his ego on the shelf and goes back to the scheme that maximizes the athleticism of the Interior Offensive Line and dials up more Student Body Left and Student Body Right calls it isn't going to matter a fig who's carrying the ball.

You're not wrong, but it might not just be ego stopping KOC from changing his playcalling. It may be they can't switch lanes so easily...does he have OZB in his playbook, and have the coaches and players been practicing? I really doubt it's in our OL coaches' philosophy, and we just brought in one of their former players, so that's like doubling down. Now he's lost a couple players that were running that OZB and he's saddled with Ingram, who definitely does not seem suited for OZB (or any scheme in the NFL for that matter, but that's another issue).

Bigger issue is that IMO KOC was explicitly hired to PASS the ball, not run it! Wilfs kept hearing how Zimmer was a boring old-school coach who made Stefon Diggs unhappy, and they wanted to change that (before Jefferson became unhappy). So Bradbury and Cleveland were above-average run blockers in that OZB scheme - but were they above-average pass blockers? Nope. So if the owner wanted a dynamic passing attack, he didn't worry much about whether his coaching hire could get a running game going, even enough to compliment and open up that passing game.

Anyway, who says there's a problem? Us and some fans? KOC went 13-4 last year and probably has a very long leash. The 0-2 start probably hasn't panicked the Wilfs, they have sat through worse. TV announcers and pundits are assuring them that the passing offense they always wanted has looked terrific and we would be 2-0 if not for a few weird bounces.

It's going to take more than this to change KOC's playcalling philosophy.

dauntessmallhands Veteran Posts: 1,494 Likes: 1,418	Potential Trade Idea - Cam Akers Sept 20, 2023 16:38:12 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by dauntessmallhands on Sept 20, 2023 16:38:12 GMT -6 Akers to the Vikes per twitter

ksuvike Starter Posts: 730 Likes: 483 Fan Since: 76	Potential Trade Idea - Cam Akers Sept 20, 2023 16:42:46 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by ksuvike on Sept 20, 2023 16:42:46 GMT -6 Yep Akers to Vikings for late draft picks next year…

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Potential Trade Idea - Cam Akers Sept 20, 2023 16:45:11 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Funkytown on Sept 20, 2023 16:45:11 GMT -6

Sept 20, 2023 16:42:46 GMT -6 ksuvike said:

Yep Akers to Vikings for late draft picks next year…

2026. I like KAM's style. ...spending picks for when he'll no longer even be here.

...just being spicy, of course. lol.

Last Edit: Sept 20, 2023 16:46:05 GMT -6 by Funkytown

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,492 Likes: 31,423 Fan Since: 1998	Potential Trade Idea - Cam Akers Sept 20, 2023 16:47:36 GMT -6 via mobile Danchat likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Sept 20, 2023 16:47:36 GMT -6 Oh, and also, Danchat for GM!

ksuvike Starter Posts: 730 Likes: 483 Fan Since: 76	Potential Trade Idea - Cam Akers Sept 20, 2023 16:49:55 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by ksuvike on Sept 20, 2023 16:49:55 GMT -6 Lol funky yes I got the year wrong, I thought it said late next year . But whatever at this rate who know a late pick might be a first rounder by then… lol

Dynalee10 Franchise Player Posts: 3,363 Likes: 1,971	Potential Trade Idea - Cam Akers Sept 20, 2023 16:58:09 GMT -6 TAFKASP likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Dynalee10 on Sept 20, 2023 16:58:09 GMT -6 Hope he can create his own holes because the Vikings O line sure cant

Drank
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Potential Trade Idea - Cam Akers Sept 20, 2023 16:59:56 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Drank on Sept 20, 2023 16:59:56 GMT -6

At least it not for a pick no time soon. By 2026 we can get late picks back. I can do this flier and it is a Reagor/ Blackock flier at this cost. Not my favorite type back but I not mad at the compensation.

lostdonkey Rookie Posts: 204 Likes: 255	Potential Trade Idea - Cam Akers Sept 20, 2023 17:00:34 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by lostdonkey on Sept 20, 2023 17:00:34 GMT -6 I wonder how the contract works out. I'm seeing one year left on his contract, at just shy of 2 million. Credit where it's due, they're trying to do something about the run game.