What truly looks better on the 2023 roster?
Sept 7, 2023 13:46:38 GMT -6
Reignman, Funkytown, and 3 more like this
Post by Jor-El on Sept 7, 2023 13:46:38 GMT -6
I just walked through the 2023 depth chart, unit by unit, thinking about the talent on the roster, and I have a question: does anyone seriously think this team will be better in 2023 than it was in 2022, or nearly as good? Maybe there’s some secret chemistry or ability to generate the same number of lucky breaks they enjoyed in 2022, and the coaching staff has figured out how to bottle that supernatural quality, but if not…the talent level is the same or worse in almost every unit of the team.
This exercise did help me figure out what a “competitive rebuild” really is: it’s the same as every other rebuild, with some hopeful-sounding words attached to convince fans they aren’t in rebuild mode. But it’s happening, nonetheless.
Quarterback: 2023 Same as 2022
2022: Kirk Cousins
2023: Kirk Cousins
I don’t think Cousins will suddenly decline, but is he going to improve much? The reason people might give is, “He’s got the same system and offensive coordinator for two years straight.” Sure, but I think Kirk is smart and has dealt with new OCs so many times in his career and he just handles it. Will he play better because he’s aiming for a new deal in free agency? Maybe, but that may mean better stats, not wins.
Running Backs: 2023 will be Worse than 2022
2022: Dalvin Cook, Alexander Mattison, Ty Chandler
2023: Alexander Mattison, Ty Chandler, Myles Gaskin
I’m really surprised when I hear people expect our running game to improve this year. Unless you believe RBs are all the same and their talent is unimportant, what is that based on? Dalvin Cook started all 17 games and generated almost 1500 combined yards. Now, I don’t disagree with the decision to let him leave, for the long-term development of the team, but there is no way Alexander Mattison brings even half the ability Cook had last year. Mattison is a reliable backup. So the Vikings must be counting on Ty Chandler to emerge as a better player than he was last year (20 yards for the season). It’s a leap of faith to believe Chandler will be a better #2 back than Mattison was last year, so there’s a good chance we have diminished talent at both RB1 and RB2. If you think we’re going to have a running game that actually concerns our opponents and makes them take some attention away from our receivers, you must believe that Chandler is going to emerge as a star RB – that he will become RB1 and better than Dalvin Cook in 2022. But RBs who had little or no productions as rookies in the NFL rarely, if ever, become stars. We are worse at RB in 2023 than we were in 2022.
WRs: 2023 will Probably be about the same as 2022
2022: Justin Jefferson, Adam Thielen, KJ Osborn, Jalen Nailor, Jalen Reagor
2023: Justin Jefferson, KJ Osborn, Jordan Addison, Jalen Nailor, Brandon Powell
Justin Jefferson should be as good as he was last year. But there’s a lot of assumption that we now have a great WR corps. So, is our WR2 better? Adam Thielen was losing speed last year…and was still a great route runner and technician with great hands and leadership. Is KJ Osborn going to replace even Thielen’s 2022 production? Because he has only done well when he was in the WR3 role. Right now, Osborn is supposed to be WR2. So where is the improvement? Rookie Jordan Addison is listed as WR3. He's probably going to be better than Osborn was last year, but if he’s really WR3, his impact will be limited. It seems more likely Addison will in fact be WR2 and Osborn back at WR3. Even so, will Addison be better than Thielen? (And can his 173 pound frame stay intact?) We’ll see.
TE: 2023 will be Better than 2022
2022: Irv Smith, Johnny Mundt, TJ Hockensen (part of year)
2023: TJ Hockensen, Josh Oliver, Johnny Mundt
The Vikings better have a good TE unit this season: they have 2 starting TEs earning $24M between them. TJ Hockensen – assuming his Training Camp absence wasn’t actually about a chronic injury that will limit his production – should be at least as much of a contributor to this offense. The role of Josh Oliver remains to be seen, but if both these guys play at the same time, there won’t be 3 WRs too often.
OL: 2023 should be About the Same as 2022
2022: Christian Darrisaw, Ezra Cleveland, Garret Bradbury, Ed Ingram, Brian O’Neill, scrubs
2023: Christian Darrisaw, Ezra Cleveland, Garret Bradbury, Ed Ingram, Brian O’Neill, scrubs
Where is the source for any idea this unit will be better? Aside from some backups (none of which look ready to unseat any starters), no personnel have changed. Will Bradbury continue his turnaround? Maybe, but his 2022 improvement was modest, and I’m not sure if it wasn’t just because he got motivated in the face of his contract ending. I guess Ingram might improve, but I really didn’t see or hear any indication of that during TC.
DL: 2023 Worse than 2022
2022: Dalvin Tomlinson, Harrison Phillips, Khyiris Tonga
2023: Dean Lowry, Harrison Phillips, Khyiris Tonga
Dean Lowry is no Dalvin Tomlinson. The three starters are league average, at best. Unless Jaquelin Roy emerges as a steal on the level of Danielle Hunter, there isn’t much to be excited about on this line.
OLB: 2023 Worse than 2022
2022: Danielle Hunter, Zadarius Smith, DJ Wonnum, Patrick Jones
2023: Danielle Hunter, Marcus Davenport, DJ Wonnum, Patrick Jones
Hmm, another unit, like the DL, which is the same as a generally subpar 2022 unit aside from dropping one of our best players and replacing him with another team’s scrub. Yes, it was the right decision to let Zadarius Smith leave, as it was with Dalvin Cook. But…who here expects Marcus Davenport will fill his shoes (especially Smith’s first half of last season)?? Davenport is yet another instance of Kwesi believing that if a player was once a high draft pick, they’re bound to make it in the NFL.
ILB: 2023 probably Worse than 2022
2022: Eric Kendricks, Jordan Hicks, Brian Asamoah, Troy Dye
2023: Jordan Hicks, Brian Asamoah, Ivan Pace, Troy Dye
There has been a lot of Eric Kendricks disrespect on this board. Good thing he was around to scoop up that fumble in Buffalo. I know, he was declining. But do you feel sure that Brian Asamoah will be better than him? I don’t, and I’m even more certain Jordan Hicks isn’t better this year than his unexciting 2022. So all the talent enthusiasm for this unit – actually, for the entire defense – rests on Ivan Pace, Jr. I like him too, but I’m not sure he’s the surefire DROY some are expecting. If he spends most of the season on the bench (just like Asamoah did after an apparently great rookie TC), this looks like a poor unit.
CB: 2023 Worse than 2022
2022: Patrick Peterson, Cam Dantzler, Chandon Sullivan, Andrew Booth, Akayleb Evans, Duke Shelley
2023: Byron Murphy, Akayleb Evans, Mekhi Blackmon, Andrew Booth
Byron Murphy is a good NFL CB – but he looks like a great one compared to the rest of the Vikings. Is he better than Pat Peterson? Be real. The rest of our current CBs are inexperienced and have durability issues.
S: 2023 about the Same as 2022
2022: Harrison Smith, Cam Bynum, Lewis Cine, Josh Metellus
2023: Harrison Smith, Cam Bynum, Lewis Cine, Josh Metellus, Jay Ward
There’s an old adage about QBs: “If you say you have 2 starting quarterbacks, you don’t have one.” The Vikings have been talking about playing 3 or even 4 safeties at the same time, so… OK, that’s enough cynicism. IDK if Josh Metellus is truly about to become a key player, but S does look like this one of the better areas of this defense. Just one more note of caution: at some point, Harrison Smith is going to fall off the same age cliff that has claimed most of his friends from the Zimmer-era Vikings. If that happens in 2023, this defense will be utter garbage.
So we should expect a dreadful defense and an offense that can throw the ball well but is below averate at runnning it. Now, though I am really evaluating player talent, I know there is a huge source of excitement for Vikings fans that will be raised if I do not:
Bonus category – DC: 2023 Better than 2022
2022: Ed Donatell
2023: Brian Flores
Sure, Flores gets the edge. But some people are acting like he can multiply the loaves and fishes. Given the talent on his side of the ball, he better be able to do so. Ed Donatell was coaching a defensive unit with a great deficit of talent, and he didn’t do that very well. But remember, last year, players and fans were really high on his style and schemes, just as they now are about Flores. I expect Flores to run a risk-taking defense that will be fun – but will also get torched a lot.
This exercise did help me figure out what a “competitive rebuild” really is: it’s the same as every other rebuild, with some hopeful-sounding words attached to convince fans they aren’t in rebuild mode. But it’s happening, nonetheless.
Quarterback: 2023 Same as 2022
2022: Kirk Cousins
2023: Kirk Cousins
I don’t think Cousins will suddenly decline, but is he going to improve much? The reason people might give is, “He’s got the same system and offensive coordinator for two years straight.” Sure, but I think Kirk is smart and has dealt with new OCs so many times in his career and he just handles it. Will he play better because he’s aiming for a new deal in free agency? Maybe, but that may mean better stats, not wins.
Running Backs: 2023 will be Worse than 2022
2022: Dalvin Cook, Alexander Mattison, Ty Chandler
2023: Alexander Mattison, Ty Chandler, Myles Gaskin
I’m really surprised when I hear people expect our running game to improve this year. Unless you believe RBs are all the same and their talent is unimportant, what is that based on? Dalvin Cook started all 17 games and generated almost 1500 combined yards. Now, I don’t disagree with the decision to let him leave, for the long-term development of the team, but there is no way Alexander Mattison brings even half the ability Cook had last year. Mattison is a reliable backup. So the Vikings must be counting on Ty Chandler to emerge as a better player than he was last year (20 yards for the season). It’s a leap of faith to believe Chandler will be a better #2 back than Mattison was last year, so there’s a good chance we have diminished talent at both RB1 and RB2. If you think we’re going to have a running game that actually concerns our opponents and makes them take some attention away from our receivers, you must believe that Chandler is going to emerge as a star RB – that he will become RB1 and better than Dalvin Cook in 2022. But RBs who had little or no productions as rookies in the NFL rarely, if ever, become stars. We are worse at RB in 2023 than we were in 2022.
WRs: 2023 will Probably be about the same as 2022
2022: Justin Jefferson, Adam Thielen, KJ Osborn, Jalen Nailor, Jalen Reagor
2023: Justin Jefferson, KJ Osborn, Jordan Addison, Jalen Nailor, Brandon Powell
Justin Jefferson should be as good as he was last year. But there’s a lot of assumption that we now have a great WR corps. So, is our WR2 better? Adam Thielen was losing speed last year…and was still a great route runner and technician with great hands and leadership. Is KJ Osborn going to replace even Thielen’s 2022 production? Because he has only done well when he was in the WR3 role. Right now, Osborn is supposed to be WR2. So where is the improvement? Rookie Jordan Addison is listed as WR3. He's probably going to be better than Osborn was last year, but if he’s really WR3, his impact will be limited. It seems more likely Addison will in fact be WR2 and Osborn back at WR3. Even so, will Addison be better than Thielen? (And can his 173 pound frame stay intact?) We’ll see.
TE: 2023 will be Better than 2022
2022: Irv Smith, Johnny Mundt, TJ Hockensen (part of year)
2023: TJ Hockensen, Josh Oliver, Johnny Mundt
The Vikings better have a good TE unit this season: they have 2 starting TEs earning $24M between them. TJ Hockensen – assuming his Training Camp absence wasn’t actually about a chronic injury that will limit his production – should be at least as much of a contributor to this offense. The role of Josh Oliver remains to be seen, but if both these guys play at the same time, there won’t be 3 WRs too often.
OL: 2023 should be About the Same as 2022
2022: Christian Darrisaw, Ezra Cleveland, Garret Bradbury, Ed Ingram, Brian O’Neill, scrubs
2023: Christian Darrisaw, Ezra Cleveland, Garret Bradbury, Ed Ingram, Brian O’Neill, scrubs
Where is the source for any idea this unit will be better? Aside from some backups (none of which look ready to unseat any starters), no personnel have changed. Will Bradbury continue his turnaround? Maybe, but his 2022 improvement was modest, and I’m not sure if it wasn’t just because he got motivated in the face of his contract ending. I guess Ingram might improve, but I really didn’t see or hear any indication of that during TC.
DL: 2023 Worse than 2022
2022: Dalvin Tomlinson, Harrison Phillips, Khyiris Tonga
2023: Dean Lowry, Harrison Phillips, Khyiris Tonga
Dean Lowry is no Dalvin Tomlinson. The three starters are league average, at best. Unless Jaquelin Roy emerges as a steal on the level of Danielle Hunter, there isn’t much to be excited about on this line.
OLB: 2023 Worse than 2022
2022: Danielle Hunter, Zadarius Smith, DJ Wonnum, Patrick Jones
2023: Danielle Hunter, Marcus Davenport, DJ Wonnum, Patrick Jones
Hmm, another unit, like the DL, which is the same as a generally subpar 2022 unit aside from dropping one of our best players and replacing him with another team’s scrub. Yes, it was the right decision to let Zadarius Smith leave, as it was with Dalvin Cook. But…who here expects Marcus Davenport will fill his shoes (especially Smith’s first half of last season)?? Davenport is yet another instance of Kwesi believing that if a player was once a high draft pick, they’re bound to make it in the NFL.
ILB: 2023 probably Worse than 2022
2022: Eric Kendricks, Jordan Hicks, Brian Asamoah, Troy Dye
2023: Jordan Hicks, Brian Asamoah, Ivan Pace, Troy Dye
There has been a lot of Eric Kendricks disrespect on this board. Good thing he was around to scoop up that fumble in Buffalo. I know, he was declining. But do you feel sure that Brian Asamoah will be better than him? I don’t, and I’m even more certain Jordan Hicks isn’t better this year than his unexciting 2022. So all the talent enthusiasm for this unit – actually, for the entire defense – rests on Ivan Pace, Jr. I like him too, but I’m not sure he’s the surefire DROY some are expecting. If he spends most of the season on the bench (just like Asamoah did after an apparently great rookie TC), this looks like a poor unit.
CB: 2023 Worse than 2022
2022: Patrick Peterson, Cam Dantzler, Chandon Sullivan, Andrew Booth, Akayleb Evans, Duke Shelley
2023: Byron Murphy, Akayleb Evans, Mekhi Blackmon, Andrew Booth
Byron Murphy is a good NFL CB – but he looks like a great one compared to the rest of the Vikings. Is he better than Pat Peterson? Be real. The rest of our current CBs are inexperienced and have durability issues.
S: 2023 about the Same as 2022
2022: Harrison Smith, Cam Bynum, Lewis Cine, Josh Metellus
2023: Harrison Smith, Cam Bynum, Lewis Cine, Josh Metellus, Jay Ward
There’s an old adage about QBs: “If you say you have 2 starting quarterbacks, you don’t have one.” The Vikings have been talking about playing 3 or even 4 safeties at the same time, so… OK, that’s enough cynicism. IDK if Josh Metellus is truly about to become a key player, but S does look like this one of the better areas of this defense. Just one more note of caution: at some point, Harrison Smith is going to fall off the same age cliff that has claimed most of his friends from the Zimmer-era Vikings. If that happens in 2023, this defense will be utter garbage.
So we should expect a dreadful defense and an offense that can throw the ball well but is below averate at runnning it. Now, though I am really evaluating player talent, I know there is a huge source of excitement for Vikings fans that will be raised if I do not:
Bonus category – DC: 2023 Better than 2022
2022: Ed Donatell
2023: Brian Flores
Sure, Flores gets the edge. But some people are acting like he can multiply the loaves and fishes. Given the talent on his side of the ball, he better be able to do so. Ed Donatell was coaching a defensive unit with a great deficit of talent, and he didn’t do that very well. But remember, last year, players and fans were really high on his style and schemes, just as they now are about Flores. I expect Flores to run a risk-taking defense that will be fun – but will also get torched a lot.
