Ed Ingram

So every team has two below average starters at least where we know where they rated until improved starting. Then a primary backup a guy who has no recorded experience at OG. Then Canadian league talent behind that? Lol I will check I doubt many good teams playing Russian roulette like that.

Well then I misunderstood you, because I took it as a well everyone else is doing it so why not us? I was talking about our situation and how I was worried about it.  Not every team starting two below average starters and the primary backup at both OGs spot a guy they just converted to OG a few months ago and  no other legit option to be found anywhere, unless Reed could come back. 

Moving Brandel to OG is fine, but very risky to not only try and upgrade a starting spot, but to then have no other OGs on the team who can play and moving a guy who has never played the position and saying Let's go with two below league average starters and a flier OT convert and no other NFL blocking talent huh lol, What didn't I read clear?  Our situation is risky, but Brandel did okay in the last game. That's not the real deal though. Who knows it might work.

Brandel better be good at OG as the back up, otherwise we have no back up at OG or C I think can play and no Schlottman doesn't bring comfort for me.

The last time this team had a really strong OL - and I mean strong for multiple seasons, not for a game or part of a season - was during Denny Green's time. That's getting to be long ago but I think there are some good lessons that can still apply:

1. We had strong OTs. Denny never fooled around with trying to turn some UDFA into a LT. Korey Stringer was kind of a luxury RT, as they sometimes had mid-round picks succeed there.
2. They moved OTs to the IOL. Matt Birk was a college OT before they moved him to C. Everett Lindsay and Chris Liewinski were college OTs but both played G and OT for the Vikings.
3. They had good OL coaching. Maybe Mike Tice wasn't a good HC (would have been easier to evaluate that if he had played for a better owner), but he could mold linemen. Did he have a hand in picking them, too? Possibly.

No surprise that #3 is probably the key. Mike Zimmer went through OL coaches as fast as OCs. Poor coaching and/or poor drafting sabotaged the ability to field a good line, not a strategy about moving players between positions or not. Maybe teams that successfully move college OTs to OG actually look for traits that make them suitable as such when drafting. I don't think that was done well by Spielman and scouts, and I'm kind of skeptical that tall and relatively lean college OTs like Cleveland and Brandel would be seen as OGs, but that might be a dated attitude.

One other thing to consider about the Green-era OLs: they all included Randall McDaniel. How much difference does one player make on that unit? McDaniel was so exceptional that there might be no comparable situation. He played LG in college and the NFL, but I'm sure he could have played LT with his athleticism. Hell, he could have been a great TE...or maybe even a WR.

To further expand on the OL Coach having a factor, here are the Vikings OL PFF grades (for the 5 starters that year) & overall season-ending PFF OL rankings for each season since 2015 (along with the OL Coach noted for each year):



Jeff Davidson was the Patriots Asst OL Coach in the early 2000's when they won 3 Super Bowls and was the Vikings OL Coach from 2011-2015 and was generally considered a solid OL coach - the 2015 season reflected that with a decent 14th overall ranking...

...a ranking the Vikings haven't sniffed until the 2022 season under OL Coach Chris Kuper. Not only did Bradbury have his best year under Kuper in 2022, but Cleveland, O'Neill and Darrisaw all had career PFF grades under him, with rookie Ed Ingram the sole below-average grade among the unit. 

It's way to early to be crowning Chris Kuper the next Mike Tice in terms of solid OL coaching, but if 2022 is any indication, the arrow is actually pointing "up" for the Vikings OL performance for the first time since possibly the Jeff Davidson era.

You truly are the master of finding evidence to backup a hypothesis.

It's great to see the uptick with Kuper, even if it was just one year so far. I'm especially eager to see if Bradbury can continue to be competent. 

Interesting to see all those "ghosts of OLs past". Dakota Dozier made Ingram look OK. And it's surprising to remember how badly Pat Elflein fell apart in 2018. I wonder if he'll stick with the Cardinals?

Mike Harris jumps out for a couple of reasons. First, sad how he had to retire; I was glad to look him up and see he is apparently well. Also, he's another example of an OT successfully moving inside to play OG.

You're not going to like this.. but I'm letting everyone know in advance so no one can say that weren't warned

Ed Ingram is the most talented guard the Vikings have drafted since McDaniel. Not that they've drafted many good ones since then but he is talented. I'd would say buy in now

Cleveland is a close second. He's very talented as well. Who do you think #3 was? I'll let you know if you get it right