Extend Cousins or ... ?

Reignman
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Apr 29, 2023 18:26:07 GMT -6

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Post by Reignman on Apr 29, 2023 18:26:07 GMT -6

Apr 29, 2023 16:44:16 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Makes perfect sense. The Vikings know that Kirk is a superior option to anyone they could have gotten in the draft realistically. The odds of Hooker or Levis being better than him are not very good

That's assuming the priority is to try and win in 2023, as opposed to trying to set yourself up to win in 2024 and beyond. If winning in 2023 is more of a priority, then fire everyone now. The Vikings aren't even close to beating any of the top teams so they should be transitioning to the rebuild phase of their competitive rebuild plan.

Apr 29, 2023 17:38:06 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

The draft changed nothing for how they feel about extending Kirk.

I certainly hope so. They lost a lot of leverage now that the draft is over. And unless there's an 11th hour trade being worked on, this probably means we're not going to get any value for Kirk when he leaves, and that's just another knock on Kwesi, who everyone likes to claim is some sort of value savant. How many vets has he lost already for nothing? I just don't want them to extend Kirk another year simply because they buy into this 1990's mentality that a young QB needs to sit behind a veteran and learn. That's Kevins job, not Kirks. Rookie QB's are more than capable of starting day 1 and succeeding with the right coach. Or they extend him because they want to squeeze an extra 4 meaningless wins out of the schedule.

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

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Extend Cousins or ... ? Apr 29, 2023 18:28:22 GMT -6 Reignman and Danchat like this

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Post by whoskmoon on Apr 29, 2023 18:28:22 GMT -6

Apr 29, 2023 17:47:41 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Apr 29, 2023 17:38:06 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

We now know the Vikings didn't like anyone they could realistically draft enough to spend a 1st on them, and still were okay with not having Kirk under contract next season.

The draft changed nothing for how they feel about extending Kirk.

Of course it doesn’t change anything because they have always planned on extending him. And they will. 😉

The Vikings were going to extend him all along, they just didn't because...?

But let me get this straight. They rejected an offer for multiple years from Kirk for less than Jones and Carr, restructured his deal to add void years versus adding real years to his contract prior to the draft, and now they are going to go back to the negotiating table with Kirk without the leverage of drafting his replacement to work with? Kwesi sure is stupid if that is the case.

PurpleFloyd
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Apr 29, 2023 18:30:39 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Apr 29, 2023 18:30:39 GMT -6

Apr 29, 2023 18:28:22 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Apr 29, 2023 17:47:41 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Of course it doesn’t change anything because they have always planned on extending him. And they will. 😉

The Vikings were going to extend him all along, they just didn't because...?

But let me get this straight. They rejected an offer for multiple years from Kirk for less than Jones and Carr, restructured his deal to add void years versus adding real years to his contract prior to the draft, and now they are going to go back to the negotiating table with Kirk without the leverage of drafting his replacement to work with? Kwesi sure is stupid if that is the case.

How is Kirks value any higher today or in a month than it was a month ago?

whoskmoon
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Apr 29, 2023 18:31:07 GMT -6 Reignman and PurpleKoolaid like this

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Post by whoskmoon on Apr 29, 2023 18:31:07 GMT -6

Apr 29, 2023 18:26:07 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Apr 29, 2023 16:44:16 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Makes perfect sense. The Vikings know that Kirk is a superior option to anyone they could have gotten in the draft realistically. The odds of Hooker or Levis being better than him are not very good

That's assuming the priority is to try and win in 2023, as opposed to trying to set yourself up to win in 2024 and beyond. If winning in 2023 is more of a priority, then fire everyone now. The Vikings aren't even close to beating any of the top teams so they should be transitioning to the rebuild phase of their competitive rebuild plan.

Apr 29, 2023 17:38:06 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

The draft changed nothing for how they feel about extending Kirk.

I certainly hope so. They lost a lot of leverage now that the draft is over. And unless there's an 11th hour trade being worked on, this probably means we're not going to get any value for Kirk when he leaves, and that's just another knock on Kwesi, who everyone likes to claim is some sort of value savant. How many vets has he lost already for nothing? I just don't want them to extend Kirk another year simply because they buy into this 1990's mentality that a young QB needs to sit behind a veteran and learn. That's Kevins job, not Kirks. Rookie QB's are more than capable of starting day 1 and succeeding with the right coach. Or they extend him because they want to squeeze an extra 4 meaningless wins out of the schedule.

To be fair to Kwesi, I don't know if there was ever any significant value to be had in trading Kirk. Probably a 3rd round pick like the Saints offered for Carr, but all Kwesi would do with that is trade back to the end of the 3rd for a bunch of special teamers.

whoskmoon
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Apr 29, 2023 18:31:47 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Apr 29, 2023 18:31:47 GMT -6

Apr 29, 2023 18:30:39 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Apr 29, 2023 18:28:22 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

The Vikings were going to extend him all along, they just didn't because...?

But let me get this straight. They rejected an offer for multiple years from Kirk for less than Jones and Carr, restructured his deal to add void years versus adding real years to his contract prior to the draft, and now they are going to go back to the negotiating table with Kirk without the leverage of drafting his replacement to work with? Kwesi sure is stupid if that is the case.

How is Kirks value any higher today or in a month than it was a month ago?

It isn't any higher, so why would they extend him now versus then? Good point.

PurpleFloyd
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Apr 29, 2023 18:38:45 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Apr 29, 2023 18:38:45 GMT -6

Apr 29, 2023 18:26:07 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Apr 29, 2023 16:44:16 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Makes perfect sense. The Vikings know that Kirk is a superior option to anyone they could have gotten in the draft realistically. The odds of Hooker or Levis being better than him are not very good

That's assuming the priority is to try and win in 2023, as opposed to trying to set yourself up to win in 2024 and beyond. If winning in 2023 is more of a priority, then fire everyone now. The Vikings aren't even close to beating any of the top teams so they should be transitioning to the rebuild phase of their competitive rebuild plan.

Apr 29, 2023 17:38:06 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

The draft changed nothing for how they feel about extending Kirk.

I certainly hope so. They lost a lot of leverage now that the draft is over. And unless there's an 11th hour trade being worked on, this probably means we're not going to get any value for Kirk when he leaves, and that's just another knock on Kwesi, who everyone likes to claim is some sort of value savant. How many vets has he lost already for nothing? I just don't want them to extend Kirk another year simply because they buy into this 1990's mentality that a young QB needs to sit behind a veteran and learn. That's Kevins job, not Kirks. Rookie QB's are more than capable of starting day 1 and succeeding with the right coach. Or they extend him because they want to squeeze an extra 4 meaningless wins out of the schedule.

I agree with that. I personally would have preferred that the FO would have been aggressive in trading assets that weren’t going to be a key part of a young foundation in the next 3-4 years and built a younger core right off the bat. I don’t know if they thought they had a window where they could click one off while the Packers lost Rodgers and the other two teams were still assembling a roster but if that’s the case they probably missed it. I do think maintaining the old roster as they did puts them at greater risk in years 3-4 than if they had just nuked the team and started over. But they also had these salaries with money pushed into the future on vets that made them harder to move. I guess we will see how it plays out

PurpleFloyd
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Apr 29, 2023 18:41:36 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Apr 29, 2023 18:41:36 GMT -6

Apr 29, 2023 18:31:47 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Apr 29, 2023 18:30:39 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

How is Kirks value any higher today or in a month than it was a month ago?

It isn't any higher, so why would they extend him now versus then? Good point.

I guess we will just have to wait and see. If they find a trading partner in the coming months at least we can have a break from all the irrational hate and if they give him another contract I’ll just wait to hear your explanation. Until then we got a QBOTF to develop and he didn’t cost much.

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Extend Cousins or ... ? Apr 29, 2023 18:47:16 GMT -6 ATXVike likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Apr 29, 2023 18:47:16 GMT -6

Apr 29, 2023 18:41:36 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Apr 29, 2023 18:31:47 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

It isn't any higher, so why would they extend him now versus then? Good point.

I guess we will just have to wait and see. If they find a trading partner in the coming months at least we can have a break from all the irrational hate and if they give him another contract I’ll just wait to hear your explanation. Until then we got a QBOTF to develop and he didn’t cost much.

I haven't seen a lot of irrational hate, but I have seen someone claim throwing a checkdown on 4th and season was a good decision. *thumb_up*

Raptorman
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Apr 29, 2023 19:21:12 GMT -6 vikadam likes this

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Post by Raptorman on Apr 29, 2023 19:21:12 GMT -6

I would love to see Cousins win the Super Bowl this year and then retire, just to annoy everyone who has been down on him the last 5 years and made the claim that he couldn't do it. And the best would be to do it with a check-down pass on 4th and the season that goes for a TD to win the game.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

PurpleFloyd
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Apr 29, 2023 19:35:26 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Apr 29, 2023 19:35:26 GMT -6

Apr 29, 2023 18:47:16 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Apr 29, 2023 18:41:36 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

I guess we will just have to wait and see. If they find a trading partner in the coming months at least we can have a break from all the irrational hate and if they give him another contract I’ll just wait to hear your explanation. Until then we got a QBOTF to develop and he didn’t cost much.

I haven't seen a lot of irrational hate, but I have seen someone claim throwing a checkdown on 4th and season was a good decision. *thumb_up*

Oh sick burn. I guess when you list the argument that’s your only option 😁

PurpleKoolaid Hall of Fame Candidate Posts: 6,229 Likes: 2,848	Extend Cousins or ... ? Apr 29, 2023 20:16:21 GMT -6 Danchat and vikadam like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by PurpleKoolaid on Apr 29, 2023 20:16:21 GMT -6 Apr 29, 2023 19:21:12 GMT -6 Raptorman said: I would love to see Cousins win the Super Bowl this year You and every Viking's fan in the world.

vikadam Practice Squad Posts: 141 Likes: 104	Extend Cousins or ... ? Apr 29, 2023 20:17:18 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by vikadam on Apr 29, 2023 20:17:18 GMT -6 Apr 29, 2023 20:16:21 GMT -6 PurpleKoolaid said: Apr 29, 2023 19:21:12 GMT -6 Raptorman said: I would love to see Cousins win the Super Bowl this year You and every Viking's fan in the world. Skol brotha

Brandon
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Apr 29, 2023 20:32:15 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Brandon on Apr 29, 2023 20:32:15 GMT -6

Apr 29, 2023 18:26:07 GMT -6 Reignman said:

I certainly hope so. They lost a lot of leverage now that the draft is over. And unless there's an 11th hour trade being worked on, this probably means we're not going to get any value for Kirk when he leaves, and that's just another knock on Kwesi, who everyone likes to claim is some sort of value savant. How many vets has he lost already for nothing?

If you want to be irritated by that, join the club. But let's point the finger and place the blame where it belongs. The Wilf's. They're the ones behind that, they're the ones pushing the always be "super competitive" angle. It's rumored to be one of the reasons Ryan Poles dropped out and took the Chicago job. He wanted to show up day one with a bulldozer and tear stuff down. Chicago said go for it and got out of the way. Given what we've seen in Minnesota I fully believe that rumor. I also think Zimmer and Rick played major parts in that as well in terms of hanging onto guys too long.

When Kwesi was given the job I think it's fair to assume that ownership wanted them to give it one more shot with the old band to see if it worked. I don't think it's a coincidence that after one year suddenly Theilen and Kendricks are gone, Cook likely following, Harrison Smith was given an ultimatum to take a pay cut or go and Kirk is put on notice that they're looking elsewhere.

It sucks they're not getting anything for them, but the time to trade them was last year. It just wasn't an option as dictated by ownership.

Last Edit: Apr 29, 2023 20:39:28 GMT -6 by Brandon

mngopher35
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Apr 29, 2023 23:09:55 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by mngopher35 on Apr 29, 2023 23:09:55 GMT -6

Apr 29, 2023 18:28:22 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Apr 29, 2023 17:47:41 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Of course it doesn’t change anything because they have always planned on extending him. And they will. 😉

The Vikings were going to extend him all along, they just didn't because...?

But let me get this straight. They rejected an offer for multiple years from Kirk for less than Jones and Carr, restructured his deal to add void years versus adding real years to his contract prior to the draft, and now they are going to go back to the negotiating table with Kirk without the leverage of drafting his replacement to work with? Kwesi sure is stupid if that is the case.

Exactly, there is simply no logical reason to extend cousins at this point. It’s been obvious for years it wasn’t going to work with him but the wilfs seemingly pushed the issue last season/when hiring a gm. If you want to actually compete with cousins you basically need the perfect team around him and we just don’t have that. He’s not worth the contracts he has been receiving. If kwesi were to extend him at this point it would be very telling about how competent he is and not in a good way.

We gave it a shot with him and despite a very talented team it just didn’t work. We already started to move on from overpaid aging vets and he should be next after this season. There is no reason to handle his contract the way we did if we plan to keep him. There is little reason to believe this team with him leading the way at qb will accomplish much.

This draft did nothing to change whether or not we should keep cousins. We seemingly chose earlier this off-season not to extend and there is no reason to change route now.

Last Edit: Apr 30, 2023 5:37:56 GMT -6 by mngopher35

Raptorman
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Apr 29, 2023 23:15:07 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Apr 29, 2023 23:15:07 GMT -6

Apr 29, 2023 20:16:21 GMT -6 PurpleKoolaid said:

Apr 29, 2023 19:21:12 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

I would love to see Cousins win the Super Bowl this year

You and every Viking's fan in the world.

I guess responding to the entire thing was too much. Talk about missing the point of a post.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.