Extend Cousins or ... ?

Danchat
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 27, 2023 20:33:45 GMT -6 Funkytown, PurpleKoolaid, and 1 more like this

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Post by Danchat on Mar 27, 2023 20:33:45 GMT -6

Mar 27, 2023 19:58:10 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

What does a younger “mobile” Qb mean anyway?

Here's some examples! Not necessarily of the young variety.

Cole: Scrambling ability and sack avoidance are the most overlooked traits in quarterback prospect evaluation

A mobile QB is one who can make throws on the run and be enough of a threat to lure in defenders to tackle him, drawing off their coverage. A mobile QB should also be good at avoiding sacks and juking defenders out of their way. They don't need to scramble all of the time like a few QBs do, but they just need to be threat. And perhaps be able to get out of the pocket when it collapses on a 4th and 8 when the season is on the line.

The traditional pocket passer QB is dying because there are few prospects left who fit the bill. We haven't had a true pocket passer pan out since... well, maybe Jared Goff. Jameis Winston, Paxton Lynch, Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield (somewhat fits), Dwayne Haskins all flopped. It feels like virtually all of the mid-round guys since Kirk have flopped, from Drew Lock to Kyle Trask, Davis Mills, Christian Hackenburg, Bryce Petty, Cardale Jones, Mason Rudolph, Garrett Grayson... while the mobile QBs have at least had Russell Wilson, Jalen Hurts, Dak Prescott to balance out the Kellen Mond, DeShone Kizer, Will Grier types.

And here's one for the road, I know you will like this one:

PurpleFloyd
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 27, 2023 21:51:54 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Mar 27, 2023 21:51:54 GMT -6

Mar 27, 2023 20:33:45 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Mar 27, 2023 19:58:10 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

What does a younger “mobile” Qb mean anyway?

Here's some examples! Not necessarily of the young variety.

Cole: Scrambling ability and sack avoidance are the most overlooked traits in quarterback prospect evaluation

A mobile QB is one who can make throws on the run and be enough of a threat to lure in defenders to tackle him, drawing off their coverage. A mobile QB should also be good at avoiding sacks and juking defenders out of their way. They don't need to scramble all of the time like a few QBs do, but they just need to be threat. And perhaps be able to get out of the pocket when it collapses on a 4th and 8 when the season is on the line.

The traditional pocket passer QB is dying because there are few prospects left who fit the bill. We haven't had a true pocket passer pan out since... well, maybe Jared Goff. Jameis Winston, Paxton Lynch, Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield (somewhat fits), Dwayne Haskins all flopped. It feels like virtually all of the mid-round guys since Kirk have flopped, from Drew Lock to Kyle Trask, Davis Mills, Christian Hackenburg, Bryce Petty, Cardale Jones, Mason Rudolph, Garrett Grayson... while the mobile QBs have at least had Russell Wilson, Jalen Hurts, Dak Prescott to balance out the Kellen Mond, DeShone Kizer, Will Grier types.

And here's one for the road, I know you will like this one:

Kirk is regarded as the best or one of the best play action QBs in the league. The team didn’t use him as much last year in that regard but him being in the pocket more isn’t because of who he is or because his abilities limit him to standing in the pocket.

Maybe if they built him a solid OL.

I can’t believe so many so called fans buy into these stupid narratives.

vikingpwr Living Legend Posts: 21,388 Likes: 4,601	Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 27, 2023 21:57:25 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by vikingpwr on Mar 27, 2023 21:57:25 GMT -6 Good post Danchat! Tony Romo was one of my favorites. Watson reminds me of Mike Vick the most. The speed and running style is similar IMO.

Danchat
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 27, 2023 22:23:12 GMT -6 Funkytown, PurpleKoolaid, and 3 more like this

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Post by Danchat on Mar 27, 2023 22:23:12 GMT -6

Mar 27, 2023 21:51:54 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Maybe if they built him a solid OL.

That'd be nice, but it's too bad they've been unable/unwilling to spend the money in free agency to sign one. As I've said before, problem #1 with this team is that our bad drafting has put us in a big hole... but we also have a QB that appears to need a top tier OL, else we're only putting up 24 points on a bad defense in the playoffs at home.

Mar 27, 2023 21:51:54 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

I can’t believe so many so called fans buy into these stupid narratives.

What's the danger in wanting a mobile QB? How many pocket passer QBs are left in today's NFL that would be a legitimate alternative to drafting a young QB? The Colts just tried out 4 pocket passer QBs in a row and are now looking real stupid. The Cardinals moved off a statue in Josh Rosen and found an actual starting QB, albeit he has his own problems.

If the narrative is "draft mobile QB, guaranteed SB win" then yeah, that's stupid because there are a ton of mobile QBs now. But where is the downside? Should the Chiefs stuck with Smith over Mahomes, the Eagles stay the ship with Wentz over Hurts, the Chargers try to go for it one more time with Rivers over Herbert? The only recent example I can think of was not enough teams putting a bid down on Tom Brady when he hit the market in 2020.

PurpleFloyd
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 28, 2023 5:36:08 GMT -6 via mobile vikadam likes this

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Mar 28, 2023 5:36:08 GMT -6

Mar 27, 2023 22:23:12 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Mar 27, 2023 21:51:54 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Maybe if they built him a solid OL.

That'd be nice, but it's too bad they've been unable/unwilling to spend the money in free agency to sign one. As I've said before, problem #1 with this team is that our bad drafting has put us in a big hole... but we also have a QB that appears to need a top tier OL, else we're only putting up 24 points on a bad defense in the playoffs at home.

Mar 27, 2023 21:51:54 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

I can’t believe so many so called fans buy into these stupid narratives.

What's the danger in wanting a mobile QB? How many pocket passer QBs are left in today's NFL that would be a legitimate alternative to drafting a young QB? The Colts just tried out 4 pocket passer QBs in a row and are now looking real stupid. The Cardinals moved off a statue in Josh Rosen and found an actual starting QB, albeit he has his own problems.

If the narrative is "draft mobile QB, guaranteed SB win" then yeah, that's stupid because there are a ton of mobile QBs now. But where is the downside? Should the Chiefs stuck with Smith over Mahomes, the Eagles stay the ship with Wentz over Hurts, the Chargers try to go for it one more time with Rivers over Herbert? The only recent example I can think of was not enough teams putting a bid down on Tom Brady when he hit the market in 2020.

1- I have no problem drafting a young QB to replace the current one once they prove they are better. What his haters are wanting to do is dump him before a young QB proves he can do the job as good as or better the current hated QB. The teams you mentioned got the replacement first and the replacement showed that they had some capability first.

What’s wrong with mobility? Nothing as long as it’s understood that it’s a secondary and not the primary skill needed at the position. And too many teams take a QB who can run fast but can’t pass or can’t process what’s happening and make a quick decision when needed.

The other issue is durability and longevity. When you are a QB who is “mobile” in the sense of what fans are clamoring for you take a lot of hits and those hits take a roll. Take Can Newton for example. Extremely talented when he entered the league. Great passer even from the pocket. But he either chose to or was asked to use his “mobility” and it shortened his career drastically because he took a huge beating game after game. And now nobody wants him because he is “washed up”. In fact he just took too many hits and we are seeing the consequences.

RG3. Great arm. Should have kept him in the pocket where he could have had a longer career utilizing his passing ability but the team created plays where he showcased his Mobility or didn’t give him a decent OL and he got pummeled within 3 years or so and Kirk took over and is still playing at a high level while RG3 is on Twitter.

Josh Allen is taking a beating as well and his arm was not the same after the injury to it last season.

If you like watching young men take a beating, have shorter careers, be injured more often and have long term health issues because of the beating they take then definitely cheer for that type of play.

PurpleFloyd
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 28, 2023 5:38:31 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Mar 28, 2023 5:38:31 GMT -6

Mar 27, 2023 20:08:46 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Mar 27, 2023 19:58:10 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

It’s not really an opinion. It’s a fact that Kirk has played the position better than anyone we have had for that length of time in 4 decades. And yet a vocal contingent is demanding we move on from him because he isn’t good enough. Insert a plethora of reasons.

What does a younger “mobile” Qb mean anyway? We have running backs. We need someone who can pass the football to playmakers. This whole fascination with “mobile” QBs is kind of silly.

Perhaps switch the "mobile" QB label with a young QB that can "improvise" when the pocket collapses.

Define “improvise”.

Do you mean move left or right to find a WR or improvise by becoming a RB?

andhesloose28
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 28, 2023 5:43:51 GMT -6

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Post by andhesloose28 on Mar 28, 2023 5:43:51 GMT -6

Mar 27, 2023 20:08:46 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Mar 27, 2023 19:58:10 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

It’s not really an opinion. It’s a fact that Kirk has played the position better than anyone we have had for that length of time in 4 decades. And yet a vocal contingent is demanding we move on from him because he isn’t good enough. Insert a plethora of reasons.

What does a younger “mobile” Qb mean anyway? We have running backs. We need someone who can pass the football to playmakers. This whole fascination with “mobile” QBs is kind of silly.

Perhaps switch the "mobile" QB label with a young QB that can "improvise" when the pocket collapses.

Aka 4th and 8 play lol

andhesloose28
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 28, 2023 5:59:35 GMT -6

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Post by andhesloose28 on Mar 28, 2023 5:59:35 GMT -6

Mar 28, 2023 5:36:08 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Josh Allen is taking a beating as well and his arm was not the same after the injury to it last season.

If you like watching young men take a beating, have shorter careers, be injured more often and have long term health issues because of the beating they take then definitely cheer for that type of play.

Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Lawrence, Herbert. That is what I mean by "mobile". Those guys dont need to use there legs but they have the threat and can. The funny thing is Kirk is sneaky athletic but he rarely uses that ability. Its a new game and heading towards that, there really is no pure pocket passers left with Brady and Brees now gone. Kirk is 34 and the last of dying breed who never even came close to the success of those two. It would be more comical to think that Kwesi and Kevin are going to tie there careers to a 34 year old Kirk without drafting there own guy. Kevin was brought here to find and develop that next QB.

SiteWolf Team Captain Posts: 1,983 Likes: 1,419 Fan Since: virtually the beginning	Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 28, 2023 6:20:20 GMT -6 Danchat likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by SiteWolf on Mar 28, 2023 6:20:20 GMT -6 Mar 27, 2023 18:56:15 GMT -6 @aussie61 said: Mar 27, 2023 10:34:31 GMT -6 beckmt said: No one is paying $50M+ for a bridge QB. Mar 27, 2023 10:34:31 GMT -6 beckmt said: except the Jets

PurpleFloyd
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 28, 2023 6:25:28 GMT -6 via mobile vikadam likes this

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Mar 28, 2023 6:25:28 GMT -6

Mar 28, 2023 5:59:35 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Mar 28, 2023 5:36:08 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Josh Allen is taking a beating as well and his arm was not the same after the injury to it last season.

If you like watching young men take a beating, have shorter careers, be injured more often and have long term health issues because of the beating they take then definitely cheer for that type of play.

Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Lawrence, Herbert. That is what I mean by "mobile". Those guys dont need to use there legs but they have the threat and can. The funny thing is Kirk is sneaky athletic but he rarely uses that ability. Its a new game and heading towards that, there really is no pure pocket passers left with Brady and Brees now gone. Kirk is 34 and the last of dying breed who never even came close to the success of those two. It would be more comical to think that Kwesi and Kevin are going to tie there careers to a 34 year old Kirk without drafting there own guy. Kevin was brought here to find and develop that next QB.

I don’t think anyone is against finding a replacement for Kirk. And the QBs you chose to list are not ones that any replacements that are mentioned resemble.

You are correct that Kirk has as much mobility as any of them so why isn’t KOC designing plays around that? (He certainly didn’t have that type of offense in LA with Stafford yet they won a SB.) Kirk is great rolling out in play action yet KOC did very little of it last year.

So was that on the coach for not using Kirk outside of the pocket or is the allegation that Kirk chose to stay in the pocket against the wishes of the coach?

PurpleFloyd
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 28, 2023 6:26:43 GMT -6 via mobile vikadam likes this

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Mar 28, 2023 6:26:43 GMT -6

Mar 28, 2023 5:43:51 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Mar 27, 2023 20:08:46 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Perhaps switch the "mobile" QB label with a young QB that can "improvise" when the pocket collapses.

Aka 4th and 8 play lol

Another example of a poor play call by the coach that had a near zero chance of working

whoskmoon
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 28, 2023 6:30:40 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Mar 28, 2023 6:30:40 GMT -6

Mar 28, 2023 5:36:08 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Mar 27, 2023 22:23:12 GMT -6 Danchat said:

That'd be nice, but it's too bad they've been unable/unwilling to spend the money in free agency to sign one. As I've said before, problem #1 with this team is that our bad drafting has put us in a big hole... but we also have a QB that appears to need a top tier OL, else we're only putting up 24 points on a bad defense in the playoffs at home.

What's the danger in wanting a mobile QB? How many pocket passer QBs are left in today's NFL that would be a legitimate alternative to drafting a young QB? The Colts just tried out 4 pocket passer QBs in a row and are now looking real stupid. The Cardinals moved off a statue in Josh Rosen and found an actual starting QB, albeit he has his own problems.

If the narrative is "draft mobile QB, guaranteed SB win" then yeah, that's stupid because there are a ton of mobile QBs now. But where is the downside? Should the Chiefs stuck with Smith over Mahomes, the Eagles stay the ship with Wentz over Hurts, the Chargers try to go for it one more time with Rivers over Herbert? The only recent example I can think of was not enough teams putting a bid down on Tom Brady when he hit the market in 2020.

1- I have no problem drafting a young QB to replace the current one once they prove they are better. What his haters are wanting to do is dump him before a young QB proves he can do the job as good as or better the current hated QB. The teams you mentioned got the replacement first and the replacement showed that they had some capability first.

The Chargers got Herbert before they moved on from Rivers?

The Chiefs spent two firsts on Mahomes, and he would have had to have been Josh Rosen bad for them to not move on in 2018. You don't invest that much in a replacement and then just stick with the same guy.

Wentz was actually significantly better statistically for Indy in 2021 than Hurts was for Philly that season. Hurts developed into a better QB in year 3, 2 seasons after the Eagles moved on from Wentz, not before.

Looking around the NFL at the other top 10 QBs (according to NFL.com), the Bills moved on from Taylor and had nothing before they drafted Allen. The Bengals had nothing before drafting Burrow, Miami had nothing before drafting Tua, Jacksonville had nothing prior to drafting Lawrence, Detroit sold high on Stafford and took on Goff in order to get 2 1sts, Smith was the Seahawks backup and had proven nothing, the Bucs moved on from Winston before making a move for Brady.

I personally would put Jackson ahead of Brady, Smith and Tua, at this point. He fits the bill better of what you are talking about, a team drafting a QB late in the first and letting him earn his starting spot. That is very rare though, and again with him, the Ravens drafted him to replace Flacco and he would have had to have been horrible to not get the start.

The Packers strategy of drafting a QB in the first and letting them sit for years until they prove they are ready has really only worked for the Packers and is the exception. It isn't a path easily emulated, unless you have an aging, HOF, disgruntled QB.

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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 28, 2023 6:32:19 GMT -6 PurpleKoolaid and mngopher35 like this

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Post by whoskmoon on Mar 28, 2023 6:32:19 GMT -6

Mar 28, 2023 6:26:43 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Mar 28, 2023 5:43:51 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Aka 4th and 8 play lol

Another example of a poor play call by the coach that had a near zero chance of working

Another example of someone defending Kirk at the expense of blaming everyone around him for his failures.

Deleted Ghosted Member Posts: 0 Likes:	Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 28, 2023 6:51:02 GMT -6 NoresemanSam likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 6:51:02 GMT -6 Mar 28, 2023 6:20:20 GMT -6 SiteWolf said: Mar 27, 2023 18:56:15 GMT -6 @aussie61 said: No one is paying $50M+ for a bridge QB. except the Jets Really? Maybe you could elaborate

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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 28, 2023 7:03:31 GMT -6 andhesloose28 likes this

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Mar 28, 2023 7:03:31 GMT -6

Mar 27, 2023 8:19:57 GMT -6 MidwinterViking said:

Hendon Hooker - this guy is getting more and more interesting to me. I'll make a generalized statement: a starting QB is a 1st round pick. Backup QBs and development lottery tickets are 2nd or later round picks depending on the odds. If the Kwesi is going to plant his flag on Hooker as the heir to Cousins, I think it makes sense to take him in the 1st round. If Hooker is a starter, there is no way he makes it to the 3rd.

Definitely not a draft expert, but this seems like a reach at 23... Perhaps they trade down and still get him and pick up a 2nd or 3rd in that scenario if they're really sold on Hooker.

I'm not as sold as you are obviously, but if drafting a 25 year old QB is not really the hold up, and there's no real plan to extend other than maybe a short term deal through the tag years, I guess it's not the worst thing in the world.