Extend Cousins or ... ?

CAMartin
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 6, 2023 14:22:24 GMT -6

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Post by CAMartin on Mar 6, 2023 14:22:24 GMT -6

Mar 6, 2023 13:55:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Mar 6, 2023 13:04:33 GMT -6 CAMartin said:

Damn, you are absolutely glued to your agenda, and really believe that's it's somehow universal truth or something. The "majority" of Vikings fans did seem optimistic after the Ponder/Teddy/Bradford/Freeman/Keenum debacles...even if you weren't.

That is because the Vikings had just as much success or more with those "debacles". *loling*

Mar 6, 2023 13:04:33 GMT -6 CAMartin said:

You talk about assumptions regarding other QBs, conveniently forgetting that the Vikings were also dealing with an increasingly toxic culture, a defense about to fall apart, and a coach that was seemingly in a cold war with his GM, his starting QB, and modern football.

Yes, we know, it none of Kirk's failures ever have anything to do with Kirk. It is always someone else's fault.

The fact that you claim Keenum "led" the team is basically...well, proof enough. The fact that that you include Freeman in the list of "as much success", well, you're just plain...odd.

Kirk makes mistakes, so does the team...but, when he would be setting records with Diggs/JJ despite a line rated 27th and a defense rated in the 30s, and the haters would spew their chewed-crayon babble in which he was the single problem...

...well, thankfully, haters don't run anything that matters. Just their mouths and keyboards.

OK, KOC...time to earn that money and acclaim...!

whoskmoon
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 6, 2023 14:26:03 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Mar 6, 2023 14:26:03 GMT -6

Mar 6, 2023 14:22:24 GMT -6 CAMartin said:

Mar 6, 2023 13:55:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

That is because the Vikings had just as much success or more with those "debacles". *loling*

Yes, we know, it none of Kirk's failures ever have anything to do with Kirk. It is always someone else's fault.

The fact that you claim Keenum "led" the team is basically...well, proof enough. The fact that that you include Freeman in the list of "as much success", well, you're just plain...odd.

Kirk makes mistakes, so does the team...but, when he would be setting records with Diggs/JJ despite a line rated 27th and a defense rated in the 30s, and the haters would spew their chewed-crayon babble in which he was the single problem...

...well, thankfully, haters don't run anything that matters. Just their mouths and keyboards.

Yeah, or we would have missed out on all of this success the team has had over the past 5 seasons...

Last Edit: Mar 6, 2023 14:27:01 GMT -6 by whoskmoon

diehardtwinsfan
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 6, 2023 14:27:04 GMT -6 MidwinterViking likes this

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Mar 6, 2023 14:27:04 GMT -6

Mar 6, 2023 13:24:20 GMT -6 Uncle said:

The Derek Carr contract details just came through: 4 yrs, $150m total, $60m guaranteed at signing and up-to $100m total guaranteed, so $37.5m avg per season...

While we don't know the exact structure (ie, how much is base salary in Yr 1, 2, etc), the $37.5m is sorta key when it comes to figuring out what a possible Kirk extension might look like...

I was sorta holding out hope that Carr's per-season avg would be $35m or less because while Kirk is a better QB, I tend to think he's in the same "ballpark" as Carr, so if you add a 10% increase to Carr's per-season avg, you're looking at a $40m+ per-season avg for a Cousins extension, and since I'm in the camp that Cousins isn't worth that much, I'm probably not going to like the #'s of any possible Kirk extension when it's finalized/announced - if there is an extension, anyway....

yeah, you'll be happy.

It's really a 2/60 deal with a 10M gift if he's cut at the end of 24.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/03/06/inside-the-derek-carr-deal-2/

His last year in 26 is 50M non guaranteed for no reason than to pump up the numbers. He's not going to play that out unless by chance he does really well there, at which point they extend him.

CAMartin
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 6, 2023 14:41:41 GMT -6

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Post by CAMartin on Mar 6, 2023 14:41:41 GMT -6

Mar 6, 2023 14:26:03 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Mar 6, 2023 14:22:24 GMT -6 CAMartin said:

The fact that you claim Keenum "led" the team is basically...well, proof enough. The fact that that you include Freeman in the list of "as much success", well, you're just plain...odd.

Kirk makes mistakes, so does the team...but, when he would be setting records with Diggs/JJ despite a line rated 27th and a defense rated in the 30s, and the haters would spew their chewed-crayon babble in which he was the single problem...

...well, thankfully, haters don't run anything that matters. Just their mouths and keyboards.

Yeah, or we would have missed out on all of this success the team has had over the past 5 seasons...

Well, gollykins, as we know, the Vikings won it all every year before 2018! Yessir, it was all clear sailing 'til then!

Oh...wait...

OK, KOC...time to earn that money and acclaim...!

whoskmoon
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 6, 2023 14:45:07 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Mar 6, 2023 14:45:07 GMT -6

Mar 6, 2023 14:41:41 GMT -6 CAMartin said:

Mar 6, 2023 14:26:03 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Yeah, or we would have missed out on all of this success the team has had over the past 5 seasons...

Well, gollykins, as we know, the Vikings won it all every year before 2018! Yessir, it was all clear sailing 'til then!

Oh...wait...

Nope just went the NFCCG the year before 2018 with a career backup. Who would ever want to go back to that when we can enjoy not making the playoffs most seasons and never getting close to getting out of the divisional round?

CAMartin
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 6, 2023 14:54:15 GMT -6

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Post by CAMartin on Mar 6, 2023 14:54:15 GMT -6

Mar 6, 2023 14:45:07 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Mar 6, 2023 14:41:41 GMT -6 CAMartin said:

Well, gollykins, as we know, the Vikings won it all every year before 2018! Yessir, it was all clear sailing 'til then!

Oh...wait...

Nope just went the NFCCG the year before 2018 with a career backup. Who would ever want to go back to that when we can enjoy not making the playoffs most seasons and never getting close to getting out of the divisional round?

Well, we've had 3 consecutive years with bottom tier defenses and almost a solid decade with bottom-quarter o-lines.

Cousins produces more consistently than any QB we've had in a very long time, and that's with s**t protection. Yet, strangely, the team's other IMMENSE weaknesses aren't mentioned by the babbleboxes in the hater gallery. It's beyond bizarre.

OK, KOC...time to earn that money and acclaim...!

andhesloose28
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 6, 2023 15:06:20 GMT -6 coltrane likes this

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Post by andhesloose28 on Mar 6, 2023 15:06:20 GMT -6

Mar 6, 2023 14:54:15 GMT -6 CAMartin said:

Mar 6, 2023 14:45:07 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Nope just went the NFCCG the year before 2018 with a career backup. Who would ever want to go back to that when we can enjoy not making the playoffs most seasons and never getting close to getting out of the divisional round?

Well, we've had 3 consecutive years with bottom tier defenses and almost a solid decade with bottom-quarter o-lines.

Cousins produces more consistently than any QB we've had in a very long time, and that's with s**t protection. Yet, strangely, the team's other IMMENSE weaknesses aren't mentioned by the babbleboxes in the hater gallery. It's beyond bizarre.

So 2018 and 2019 defenses just get thrown out? Or thats just the culture and old man Zim excuse years?

So its:

          2018 - Oline/Old man Zim
         2019- Oline/Old man Zim
         2020 - Covid/Hunter Out
         2021 - Defense blew leads/unlucky
      2022 - Defense


Kirk the .500 career QB must be the most unlucky player in NFL history!! Sure wasnt paid that way

Last Edit: Mar 6, 2023 15:10:03 GMT -6 by andhesloose28

coltrane
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 6, 2023 15:31:19 GMT -6 andhesloose28 likes this

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Post by coltrane on Mar 6, 2023 15:31:19 GMT -6

Mar 6, 2023 15:06:20 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

So 2018 and 2019 defenses just get thrown out?

Yep, oddly enough none of the Kirk Excusers seem to have an answer for why there's absolutely no correlation whatsoever between defensive ranking and W/L record during his career. Never let facts get in the way of a good story though, right?

Last Edit: Mar 6, 2023 15:31:58 GMT -6 by coltrane

whoskmoon
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 6, 2023 15:35:34 GMT -6 coltrane likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Mar 6, 2023 15:35:34 GMT -6

Mar 6, 2023 15:31:19 GMT -6 coltrane said:

Mar 6, 2023 15:06:20 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

So 2018 and 2019 defenses just get thrown out?

Yep, oddly enough none of the Kirk Excusers seem to have an answer for why there's absolutely no correlation whatsoever between defensive ranking and W/L record during his career. Never let facts get in the way of a good story though, right?

Yeah, but his head coach was a big meanie though. You forgot about that part didn't part didn't you?

andhesloose28
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 6, 2023 15:48:41 GMT -6 ATXVike likes this

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Post by andhesloose28 on Mar 6, 2023 15:48:41 GMT -6

Mar 6, 2023 15:35:34 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Mar 6, 2023 15:31:19 GMT -6 coltrane said:

Yep, oddly enough none of the Kirk Excusers seem to have an answer for why there's absolutely no correlation whatsoever between defensive ranking and W/L record during his career. Never let facts get in the way of a good story though, right?

Yeah, but his head coach was a big meanie though. You forgot about that part didn't part didn't you?

Ill give him the compliment that he has actually gotten better every year hes been here, but enough is enough. The man is going to be 35 years old, Kwesi and Kevin are not going to tie their Viking careers to him or his guarantees any longer. Kevin has to get a shot a drafting his guy

Raptorman
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 6, 2023 16:04:00 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Mar 6, 2023 16:04:00 GMT -6

Mar 6, 2023 15:06:20 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Kirk the .500 career QB must be the most unlucky player in NFL history!! Sure wasnt paid that way

See. Matthew Stafford. .465 career QB, Has made $300 million so far. Why was he paid? HE actually has made more per year during his career than Cousins. Should the Rams dump him because he's 35?

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MidwinterViking
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 6, 2023 16:40:28 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by MidwinterViking on Mar 6, 2023 16:40:28 GMT -6

Mar 6, 2023 14:06:12 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

Mar 6, 2023 12:54:18 GMT -6 ukvikings said:

Carr got this contract and a no trade clause. When I talk to my unbiased colleagues(non Viking fans) they view Carr and Kirk as essentially the same. While that is not an argument I’m looking for in this thread, this contract doesn’t scream good news for a massive contract for Kirk. Nowhere near fully guaranteed and under 40M per while being 2.5 years younger.

1st 2 years are 30 M guaranteed (28.5 via bonus with 1.5 base salary for 23).

10 M guaranteed year 3 (2025) in year 2024 and remaining 30 guaranteed beginning 2025. It's fully guaranteed for injury.

50 M unguaranteed in 26 I remember the PFT article right...

So really he's getting 30M/season for the next two years plus a 10M parting gift in 25 if he's cut and healthy before the league year begins. I highly doubt he's playing on that contract in 26. That number is forcing an extension at best, but in reality, he's either being cut at the end of 24 or the end of 25.

Given Carr's age, I'd say he's probably worth more than Cousins, so perhaps NFL teams are finally figuring out to not overpay so much?

I agree in concept that this structure is a good comp for Cousins, but I think you're overestimating any potential discount for age. Cousins is better than Carr at everything measurable: career totals, game averages, accuracy, and win %; and if you look only at Cousins' time with the Vikings the gap is even larger. 2-3 years older won't nullify much of that difference.

I was originally thinking the Vikings might add on 2/$75-$80M with a paper 3rd year at $50Mish for a 3/$130M addition (that was really just 2 years). The real president Carr's contract sets is only 2 "real" years of guaranteed money. If that's the going rate, I could see the Vikings adding a 2024 at year $40M + some fake years in 2025 and 2026 at $45 + $50m for an extension total of 3/$135M.

Cousins making less than $35M AAV he's making now seems unlikely.

Last Edit: Mar 6, 2023 16:41:47 GMT -6 by MidwinterViking

PurpleKoolaid Hall of Fame Candidate Posts: 6,187 Likes: 2,817	Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 6, 2023 19:06:23 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by PurpleKoolaid on Mar 6, 2023 19:06:23 GMT -6 Mar 6, 2023 16:04:00 GMT -6 Raptorman said: Should the Rams dump him because he's 35? Yes, cause good teams get rid of SB winning QBs, something Cousins knows *ZERO* about.

coltrane
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 6, 2023 19:27:13 GMT -6

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Post by coltrane on Mar 6, 2023 19:27:13 GMT -6

Mar 6, 2023 19:06:23 GMT -6 PurpleKoolaid said:

Yes, cause good teams get rid of SB winning QBs, something Cousins knows ZERO about.

Oh and btw he won that SB with a run-of-the-mill 15th ranked defense. Very strange..

Danchat
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Mar 6, 2023 21:03:19 GMT -6 MidwinterViking and johnb8084 like this

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Post by Danchat on Mar 6, 2023 21:03:19 GMT -6

Mar 6, 2023 16:40:28 GMT -6 MidwinterViking said:

If that's the going rate, I could see the Vikings adding a 2024 at year $40M + some fake years in 2025 and 2026 at $45 + $50m for an extension total of 3/$135M.

I dunno, Kirk has outright refused to have unguaranteed money on his back end of his deals and has always had it guaranteed, sometimes via a roster bonus or via a clause in the deal.

Mar 6, 2023 16:40:28 GMT -6 MidwinterViking said:

Cousins making less than $35M AAV he's making now seems unlikely.

It seemed unlikely before the Carr deal. I still feel good about a 2/$80M extension that I and johnb8084 predicted. There's no track record for Kirk taking a discount, not impossible, but not likely.