Extend Cousins or ... ?

dauntessmallhands
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Feb 19, 2023 14:46:09 GMT -6

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Post by dauntessmallhands on Feb 19, 2023 14:46:09 GMT -6

Feb 19, 2023 8:24:21 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Why is that crazy? Teams find QBs as good or better than Kirk all the time.

all the time? on rookie contracts? that win super bowls on those rookie contracts?

how often do teams win the super bowl with their QB on a rookie contract? Brady, Roethlisberger in 2005(5th year), Eli in 2007(4th year), Wilson in 2013 (2nd year), Mahomes in 2019 (3rd year)

people are saying they want to move on from Kirk, but what they are really saying is that they want to move on from Kirk for the next Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, Allen or even Burrow. Yah. So would I. Just move on. Find an elite QB and we'll be back in business within a couple years. Sure, it can be done, but what are the odds?

They've got a very good QB that in all likelihood is going to have about a 23m cap hit in 2023 against a cap of 225m. That should be able to get it done.

What a lot of people are asking for, which is to roll out of Kirk and into a HOF QB over a two year period is just unrealistic.

It's probably also unrealistic to think that they can put together a super bowl contender with Kirk at the most important position.

The argument is about the odds either way. I think the latter is more realistic than the former, and the former is going to have to happen at some point so what's the harm to try the current way for a couple of years under the new regime?

Maybe you hit on that ideal scenario of drafting your QBOTF this year, take that one year of cap hit hell in 2024, and then you're really rolling again in year 3 of that rookie QB.

dauntessmallhands
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Feb 19, 2023 14:48:05 GMT -6

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Post by dauntessmallhands on Feb 19, 2023 14:48:05 GMT -6

Feb 19, 2023 14:41:37 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

I think we should either extend Kirk, trade him or let him play out his contract. All other options are a no for me

what's the fourth option? Having him whacked?

yeah. probably should avoid that one.

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,627 Likes: 31,557 Fan Since: 1998 Member is Online	Extend Cousins or ... ? Feb 19, 2023 17:33:35 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Feb 19, 2023 17:33:35 GMT -6

gophersturf10
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Feb 19, 2023 17:51:37 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by gophersturf10 on Feb 19, 2023 17:51:37 GMT -6

Anthony Richardson is not a first rd qb. The team that does make him a first rd pick “and I don’t think there is one” didn’t do there homework. Massive arm strength and can run. Very inaccurate.. Can run out of pressure situations in college but won’t do the same in nfl. There’s a reason he was treating downward at the end of the season, now the internet GM’s are making him a top 20 pick. He’s a late rd development guy and that’s it..

PurpleFloyd
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Feb 19, 2023 18:02:54 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Feb 19, 2023 18:02:54 GMT -6

Feb 19, 2023 2:08:54 GMT -6 dauntessmallhands said:

It's still February and this thread is already cycling through Kirk/Mahomes comparisons.

Kirk is good and needs more help around him that elite guys. Duh.
Kirk's contract is structured for an easy conversion of his roster bonus. If you don't do this and let him play out his deal you have a 12.5m dead cap hit next year. If you do, it's a 26m dead cap hit next year.
You don't have anyone to replace him so why would you worry about cap space in 24 if you don't have a QB? You're dreaming if you think a guy we draft this year or next is gonna be as good as Kirk.
He's got a no trade clause.
If you don't have Kirk or the magical draft pick that's gonna step in and hit the ground running or you can somehow pull a legit starting QB off of the scrap heap, JJ is gonna leave. Probably Hock too.

We need to move on from Kirk at some point, but there is collateral. So please understand what it means to not have him. An indeterminate time of suckage but a minimum of two years unless you get really really lucky. And more likely in the 3-4 year range even if you do find a solid replacement.

Also, what has better odds? Finding Kirk's replacement and having them be as good as him or better in the next two year? Or in that time, finding a few solid to good or even very good players in the draft an FAcy that can step in and make the defense good and provide some additional weapons? How many Jalen Hurts or Pat Mahomes scenarios are there vs. the latter?

And here's one more thing to keep in mind for all those who want to move on from Kirk right now, I would imagine a good portion of that crew thinks the 2022 draft was a total bust. So you trust that guy find you a new QB?

👏

whoskmoon
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Feb 19, 2023 18:18:42 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Feb 19, 2023 18:18:42 GMT -6

Feb 19, 2023 14:46:09 GMT -6 dauntessmallhands said:

all the time? on rookie contracts? that win super bowls on those rookie contracts?

All the time. There is a lot of room between "as good as Kirk Cousins" and winning the SB, and it isn't hard to find a guy who can be successful throwing to JJ and Hockenson, with the two of the better tackles, and a top 5 RB.

Feb 19, 2023 14:46:09 GMT -6 dauntessmallhands said:

how often do teams win the super bowl with their QB on a rookie contract? Brady, Roethlisberger in 2005(5th year), Eli in 2007(4th year), Wilson in 2013 (2nd year), Mahomes in 2019 (3rd year)

Flacco, Rodgers had just been extended but was on the final year of his contract being a bargain and Wentz/Foles. Now compare that number to non-HOF QBs making 10+% of the cap winning a SB. Stafford and maybe Eli Manning (although I think he ends up in). Even with those guys while not as consistent as Kirk, they had moments where they were significantly better than Kirk could ever hope to be.

Feb 19, 2023 14:46:09 GMT -6 dauntessmallhands said:

people are saying they want to move on from Kirk, but what they are really saying is that they want to move on from Kirk for the next Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, Allen or even Burrow. Yah. So would I. Just move on. Find an elite QB and we'll be back in business within a couple years. Sure, it can be done, but what are the odds?

It's probably also unrealistic to think that they can put together a super bowl contender with Kirk at the most important position

The odds of finding the next Mahomes are 0 if you don't ever try. Plus, Philly proved two times in the past decade you don't necessarily need Mahomes either. They have shown an alternative path to competing for the championship that doesn't work with Kirk at QB.

Feb 19, 2023 14:46:09 GMT -6 dauntessmallhands said:

The argument is about the odds either way. I think the latter is more realistic than the former, and the former is going to have to happen at some point so what's the harm to try the current way for a couple of years under the new regime?

Maybe you hit on that ideal scenario of drafting your QBOTF this year, take that one year of cap hit hell in 2024, and then you're really rolling again in year 3 of that rookie QB.

I would hope KAM would be fired if the Vikings are still in cap hell in 2024 and sadly, I don't think KOC could survive what you are describing. It would be so much better to bite the bullet now and focus on 2024 as the year to start going all in on this team. It should have been done this season, a season that would have still been entertaining even if the Vikings lost a couple of more games, but now that they are in this boat they should look towards 2023 as the last year tied to aging vets and their dead cap hits.

Last Edit: Feb 19, 2023 18:19:48 GMT -6 by whoskmoon

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Extend Cousins or ... ? Feb 19, 2023 18:20:50 GMT -6 coltrane likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Feb 19, 2023 18:20:50 GMT -6

Feb 19, 2023 14:41:37 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

I think we should either extend Kirk, trade him or let him play out his contract. All other options are a no for me

Me too. Except extending him that is. That would be a colossal mistake. Again.

Last Edit: Feb 19, 2023 18:21:37 GMT -6 by whoskmoon

NoresemanSam
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Feb 19, 2023 18:36:33 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth likes this

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Post by NoresemanSam on Feb 19, 2023 18:36:33 GMT -6

Feb 19, 2023 18:20:50 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Feb 19, 2023 14:41:37 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

I think we should either extend Kirk, trade him or let him play out his contract. All other options are a no for me

Me too. Except extending him that is. That would be a colossal mistake. Again.

Get used to the idea. It will happen. No ownership would willingly move on from Kirk with absolutely no low-risk replacement plan. We'll keep Kirk, JJ and TJ and put on a good show. Probably win a few games. It's business.

"There is no one most valuable Viking. There are 40 most valuable Vikings" - Joe Kapp upon refusing to accept the team MVP award

whoskmoon
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Feb 19, 2023 19:10:25 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Feb 19, 2023 19:10:25 GMT -6

Feb 19, 2023 18:36:33 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Feb 19, 2023 18:20:50 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Me too. Except extending him that is. That would be a colossal mistake. Again.

Get used to the idea. It will happen. No ownership would willingly move on from Kirk with absolutely no low-risk replacement plan. We'll keep Kirk, JJ and TJ and put on a good show. Probably win a few games. It's business.

I agree, just building up a lot of "I told you so" equity here for when this plan fails again.

CAMartin
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Feb 19, 2023 19:35:49 GMT -6 vikadam likes this

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Post by CAMartin on Feb 19, 2023 19:35:49 GMT -6

Feb 19, 2023 19:10:25 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Feb 19, 2023 18:36:33 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Get used to the idea. It will happen. No ownership would willingly move on from Kirk with absolutely no low-risk replacement plan. We'll keep Kirk, JJ and TJ and put on a good show. Probably win a few games. It's business.

I agree, just building up a lot of "I told you so" equity here for when this plan fails again.

That's weak equity, as 31 of 32 teams will fail, every year. It's hardly prophetic.

Allen still hasn't been to the show, and he's almost as much of a media favorite as Mahomes. We saw blather about "elite QBs putting their teams on their backs", yet Rodgers never got back after his one win, Brady typically had a stout D and a good line in front of him, and so on.

With a better defense and even mid-pack o-line play, we're deep in the playoffs for the last 3 seasons...but that's so obvious, it's almost shrugged off due to repetition.

We do need to be developing a good, young, "Qb of the future" ASAP, that's a no-brainer...but the position is not currently a weakness.

OK, KOC...time to earn that money and acclaim...!

dauntessmallhands
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Feb 19, 2023 19:46:15 GMT -6

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Post by dauntessmallhands on Feb 19, 2023 19:46:15 GMT -6

Feb 19, 2023 18:36:33 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Get used to the idea. It will happen. No ownership would willingly move on from Kirk with absolutely no low-risk replacement plan. We'll keep Kirk, JJ and TJ and put on a good show. Probably win a few games. It's business.

it's just reality. No team is going to start over every time they don't have a HOF QB or a good one on a rookie deal.

whoskmoon
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Feb 19, 2023 19:55:21 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by whoskmoon on Feb 19, 2023 19:55:21 GMT -6

Feb 19, 2023 19:35:49 GMT -6 CAMartin said:

Feb 19, 2023 19:10:25 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

I agree, just building up a lot of "I told you so" equity here for when this plan fails again.

That's weak equity, as 31 of 32 teams will fail, every year. It's hardly prophetic.

Allen still hasn't been to the show, and he's almost as much of a media favorite as Mahomes. We saw blather about "elite QBs putting their teams on their backs", yet Rodgers never got back after his one win, Brady typically had a stout D and a good line in front of him, and so on.

With a better defense and even mid-pack o-line play, we're deep in the playoffs for the last 3 seasons...but that's so obvious, it's almost shrugged off due to repetition.

We do need to be developing a good, young, "Qb of the future" ASAP, that's a no-brainer...but the position is not currently a weakness.

31 teams do fail to win the SB each season,but multiple succeed in at least competing for one and just coming up short while others succeed in building towards the future. The Vikings did none of those things which is why there season was a failure.

vikadam
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Feb 19, 2023 23:04:11 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikadam on Feb 19, 2023 23:04:11 GMT -6

Feb 19, 2023 19:35:49 GMT -6 CAMartin said:

Feb 19, 2023 19:10:25 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

I agree, just building up a lot of "I told you so" equity here for when this plan fails again.

That's weak equity, as 31 of 32 teams will fail, every year. It's hardly prophetic.

Allen still hasn't been to the show, and he's almost as much of a media favorite as Mahomes. We saw blather about "elite QBs putting their teams on their backs", yet Rodgers never got back after his one win, Brady typically had a stout D and a good line in front of him, and so on.

With a better defense and even mid-pack o-line play, we're deep in the playoffs for the last 3 seasons...but that's so obvious, it's almost shrugged off due to repetition.

We do need to be developing a good, young, "Qb of the future" ASAP, that's a no-brainer...but the position is not currently a weakness.

This exactly. 💯

coltrane
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Extend Cousins or ... ? Feb 20, 2023 6:37:11 GMT -6

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Post by coltrane on Feb 20, 2023 6:37:11 GMT -6

Feb 19, 2023 19:55:21 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Feb 19, 2023 19:35:49 GMT -6 CAMartin said:

That's weak equity, as 31 of 32 teams will fail, every year. It's hardly prophetic.

Allen still hasn't been to the show, and he's almost as much of a media favorite as Mahomes. We saw blather about "elite QBs putting their teams on their backs", yet Rodgers never got back after his one win, Brady typically had a stout D and a good line in front of him, and so on.

With a better defense and even mid-pack o-line play, we're deep in the playoffs for the last 3 seasons...but that's so obvious, it's almost shrugged off due to repetition.

We do need to be developing a good, young, "Qb of the future" ASAP, that's a no-brainer...but the position is not currently a weakness.

31 teams do fail to win the SB each season, but multiple succeed in at least competing for one and just coming up short while others succeed in building towards the future. The Vikings did none of those things which is why there season was a failure.

It's interesting how low the bar is sometimes with respect to what a successful season is. Multiple posters here apparently consider 13-4 in the regular season and 0-1 in the playoffs at-home-against-a-team-that-got-slaughtered-the-following-week to be a good season. With that type of mentality, it's no wonder Kirk is their guy.

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Extend Cousins or ... ? Feb 20, 2023 7:14:22 GMT -6

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Post by SiteWolf on Feb 20, 2023 7:14:22 GMT -6

Feb 19, 2023 17:51:37 GMT -6 gophersturf10 said:

Anthony Richardson is not a first rd qb. The team that does make him a first rd pick “and I don’t think there is one” didn’t do there homework. Massive arm strength and can run. Very inaccurate.. Can run out of pressure situations in college but won’t do the same in nfl. There’s a reason he was treating downward at the end of the season, now the internet GM’s are making him a top 20 pick. He’s a late rd development guy and that’s it..

I haven't seen a single snap of his, but there are mocks out there where he is not only a 1st round pick, but a top 10 even #1 overall pick. As usual, it's a dart throw...some are bullseyes, some are triple 18s, and some miss the board completely.