[OC] If Stafford Can Do It....

The problem is he does wait that extra fraction of the second and the results are still not good.  Kirk does not get rid of the ball quickly for a pure pocket passer and tends to hold it until the pressure gets to him before launching a deep bomb to CJ Ham for 3 yards.  

Kirk's ADOT the last 4 years on throws after 2.5 seconds: 11.02 (bottom 10 3 of 4 seasons)
Stafford's ADOT: 13.43 (#1 half the seasons)

And for those of you who are going to immediately jump to to blaming the scheme for that, Kirk was tied with Alex Smith for 28th in that stat in 2016, throwing to really good WRs behind a great Oline, with a SB winning HC as his OC.  

Kirk is a one read QB and when that read isn't there he generally makes the easy throw regardless of how much time he has.  Another similarity to Goff btw, who was near the bottom of the league in ADOT on passes that took longer than 2.5 seconds.  

Context matters, everyone knows Detroit before and after him has sucked. Cousins already had a team where that was an excuse as well in Washington. The obvious difference is that when Cousins came to a team with a top 5-10 defense and  Diggs/Thielen/Rudolph/Cook after Keenum lead a top 10ish offense without Dalvin most of the year the team fell off with Cousins. When we did make the playoffs Cousins choked bad against the 49ers despite as that breakdown shows open WR's often simply being missed by the QB. Stafford on the other hand immediately won a SB when he was surrounded by actual talent. 

On top of this as a lot of the more in depth stats are getting at Stafford is the type of QB that takes risks and makes good decisions/2nd reads. Cousins ends up ranked closer to Goff when you look at this type of information because he isn't a QB that excels if the first read isn't there, he often isn't able to make a play after that like some of the good QB's in the league. Wins and Losses matter to an extent, it's like basic stats it just gives a brief picture but shouldn't be relied on at all. When you realize a QB has a top 10 defense and elite weapons and is still coming up around average that says more though (first two years Cousins was with MN). The full context, the in depth stats and analysis all point to these issues with Cousins and him being mediocre AND his record also is which is often why the label sticks/fits. The full context paints a similar picture of who he is. 

If Kirk were to win a SB playing at an elite level it would definitely change the narrative around him, I agree. That's up to him to prove and show he is capable though, otherwise people will judge him on what has actually happened.

that's essentially what I'm getting at. People want Cousins to 'be more aggressive' but for him I'm concerned it'll be more panic than patience. So can they take away his candy (immediate short options) and make him eat his vegetables (better options downfield but he has to wait a bit longer than he's used to) OR is there a way to split the difference? Give him better options for hot reads where it's not just Ham or even Dalvin standing in the backfield or 2 step drops to a WR standing behind the LOS. Can organized confusion make him better?

In other words, do they accept and even embrace his propensity to panic and work around it or do they somehow force him to wait those extra fractions of seconds? I'm very curious. Especially if they are giving him the option pre snap to diagnose pressure and make the call accordingly. That might work, but it also might be a problem.

Well for another. Why does Stafford need excuses? He won it all after being brought to a new team as the missing piece. Kirk after 4 years needs excuses still for why his new team can't even get back to being close.
Yep. You want that prove that.

It sure would be incredible to have a QB that didn't need excuses made for him, wouldn't it?

Is this thread for real? Goff fell off the face off the earth when he was taken out of the McVay system. If Goff was the quarterback of the Vikings in 2021, the team probably wins games (The Lions, Packers, Chargers, Panthers game all probably flip to losses and the second Bears game would be at risk too). Any argument that Goff and Cousins are peers is simply detached from reality.

Here’s very simple proof that it was the system that made the Quarterbacks between the Lions and Rams: Stafford’s results went up almost exactly as much as Goff’s went down when they switched places (including playoffs):

Stafford goes from Lions to Rams:
Lions Win %: .443 (74-93-1)
Rams Win %: .761 (16-5)
Win %Change: +.318

Goff Goes from Rams to Lions:
Rams Win %: .595 (44-50)
Lions Win %: .250 (3-10-1)
Win % Change: -.345

The system had a massive impact on the results of both Stafford and Goff in opposite directions. To suggest system changes won’t impact Cousins because his release time is kinda similar to Goff is flat out delusional.

The question that should be asked is: Is the Zimmer / Kubiak system more like the recent Lions or Rams? If the Vikings were running a stodgy archaic Lions-like system, and O’Connell changes thing to match the Rams, there should be improvement. If the Vikings were running a modern, dynamic system like the Rams, then Cousins was already meeting his full potential and there is nothing else to gain.

I go back to this a lot whenever people claim A)  Kirk has been held back by his OCs and just needs a good offense to really excel and B) KOC is going to be bringing that LAR SB winning offense to the Vikings.

A lot of it is just to point out the absurdity of the claim that KOC is going to magically change a 10 year veteran QB into something he clearly is not.

Just like McVay's offense in 2016 is not the same as the one in 2021, neither will the one KOC will coach in 2022 be the same as the one McVay ran last year.  I actually hope it won't be because that offense will 100% not work in MN.