Top Tier QB's

vikingpwr
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Top Tier QB's May 6, 2022 10:22:29 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on May 6, 2022 10:22:29 GMT -6

May 6, 2022 8:29:04 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

May 6, 2022 6:30:02 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

As someone who is not a Kirk fan, statements like this really bother me. It's not true at all... It stereotypes and is nothing more than a veiled personal attack. You can do better.

I was copying the approach of another poster to show him what it looked like painting fans a certain way based off absolutely nothing (except maybe the extremes).

I agree doing so is ridiculous and based on stereotyping others. That was actually the point I was making to him.

Top tier QBs. Lets start there considering the title of this thread. Of the 62 QBs that took snaps under center in 2022 I put 8 QBs in the top tier. Those are the guys that have led their team to one or more SB wins. That's how my so-called tiers work.

Take one guess who you think I'd pick as the best QB.....Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, Fran Tarkenton, John, Elway, Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan.

mngopher35
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Top Tier QB's May 6, 2022 11:29:11 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by mngopher35 on May 6, 2022 11:29:11 GMT -6

May 6, 2022 10:22:29 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

May 6, 2022 8:29:04 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

I was copying the approach of another poster to show him what it looked like painting fans a certain way based off absolutely nothing (except maybe the extremes).

I agree doing so is ridiculous and based on stereotyping others. That was actually the point I was making to him.

Top tier QBs. Lets start there considering the title of this thread. Of the 62 QBs that took snaps under center in 2022 I put 8 QBs in the top tier. Those are the guys that have led their team to one or more SB wins. That's how my so-called tiers work.

Take one guess who you think I'd pick as the best QB.....Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, Fran Tarkenton, John, Elway, Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan.

Based on that criteria John Elway seems like your choice to me.

I would disagree about ranking qbs just on Super Bowls like that though. A lot of those guys listed with 0 are better than say Trent Dilfer who you mentioned earlier, at least in my opinion.

vikingpwr
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Top Tier QB's May 6, 2022 12:48:41 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on May 6, 2022 12:48:41 GMT -6

May 6, 2022 11:29:11 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

May 6, 2022 10:22:29 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Top tier QBs. Lets start there considering the title of this thread. Of the 62 QBs that took snaps under center in 2022 I put 8 QBs in the top tier. Those are the guys that have led their team to one or more SB wins. That's how my so-called tiers work.

Take one guess who you think I'd pick as the best QB.....Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, Fran Tarkenton, John, Elway, Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan.

Based on that criteria John Elway seems like your choice to me.

I would disagree about ranking qbs just on Super Bowls like that though. A lot of those guys listed with 0 are better than say Trent Dilfer who you mentioned earlier, at least in my opinion.

John Elway is a legend!

Trent Dilfer led the Ravens to their first Super Bowl win in 2000. He took over for Tony Banks and went 7-1 to earn a wild card spot. 11-1 and a Super Bowl win!

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Top Tier QB's May 6, 2022 13:18:51 GMT -6

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Post by mngopher35 on May 6, 2022 13:18:51 GMT -6

May 6, 2022 12:48:41 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

May 6, 2022 11:29:11 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Based on that criteria John Elway seems like your choice to me.

I would disagree about ranking qbs just on Super Bowls like that though. A lot of those guys listed with 0 are better than say Trent Dilfer who you mentioned earlier, at least in my opinion.

John Elway is a legend!

Trent Dilfer led the Ravens to their first Super Bowl win in 2000. He took over for Tony Banks and went 7-1 to earn a wild card spot. 11-1 and a Super Bowl win!

I agree he is a legend and I agree he did do that and win a SB.

Do you think that makes Dilfer a better QB than Dan Marino because he didn't win a SB?

Last Edit: May 6, 2022 13:19:19 GMT -6 by mngopher35

vikingpwr Living Legend Posts: 21,388 Likes: 4,605	Top Tier QB's May 6, 2022 14:15:44 GMT -6 suncoastvike likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by vikingpwr on May 6, 2022 14:15:44 GMT -6 May 6, 2022 13:18:51 GMT -6 mngopher35 said: Do you think that makes Dilfer a better QB than Dan Marino because he didn't win a SB? Absolutely not. Dan Marino was a more talented (better) QB.

mngopher35
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Top Tier QB's May 6, 2022 14:21:09 GMT -6

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Post by mngopher35 on May 6, 2022 14:21:09 GMT -6

May 6, 2022 14:15:44 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

May 6, 2022 13:18:51 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Do you think that makes Dilfer a better QB than Dan Marino because he didn't win a SB?

Absolutely not. Dan Marino was a more talented (better) QB.

Then I am not sure why you started with that criteria in the initial post today. I don't think that is what defines top tier QB and it would appear you also don't think it necessarily makes them the better QB's. Otherwise Dilfer would be seen as better than Marino just based on the "who has won a SB" criteria.

In todays league for example I think Burrow and Allen should be seen as top tier QB's despite no super bowl. Just like Marino was a better/more of a top tier QB than other players who may have won won as well.

suncoastvike
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Top Tier QB's May 6, 2022 15:41:19 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

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Post by suncoastvike on May 6, 2022 15:41:19 GMT -6

May 6, 2022 12:48:41 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

May 6, 2022 11:29:11 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Based on that criteria John Elway seems like your choice to me.

I would disagree about ranking qbs just on Super Bowls like that though. A lot of those guys listed with 0 are better than say Trent Dilfer who you mentioned earlier, at least in my opinion.

John Elway is a legend!

Trent Dilfer led the Ravens to their first Super Bowl win in 2000. He took over for Tony Banks and went 7-1 to earn a wild card spot. 11-1 and a Super Bowl win!

Dilfer was a smart QB. Smart enough to stay out of the way.
That team won 12 games yet hit the playoffs in the Wildcard round. They gave up a combined 20 points through 4 playoff games.
They were an anomaly not a standard. Dilfer averaged around 140 ypg in those playoffs because that's all they needed.

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ocampo82
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Top Tier QB's May 6, 2022 16:40:08 GMT -6 Reignman, suncoastvike, and 1 more like this

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Post by ocampo82 on May 6, 2022 16:40:08 GMT -6

May 4, 2022 21:42:01 GMT -6 Danchat said:

I think if Tua stays healthy, I believe he can reach Cousins' level. He had the NFL's worst OL last year and now has several upgrades there and a superweapon in Tyreek Hill - we should learn much more about him this year than we did last.

absolutely not.

Any jump in stats will be directly attributed to Hill's ability to catch a 5 yard pass and score. I do not believe in Tua's talent, and how dare you make me defend Cousins. I have made it clear on the board, I do not like him! how dare you!

Danchat
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Top Tier QB's May 6, 2022 17:05:56 GMT -6 MidwinterViking likes this

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Post by Danchat on May 6, 2022 17:05:56 GMT -6

May 6, 2022 16:40:08 GMT -6 ocampo82 said:

May 4, 2022 21:42:01 GMT -6 Danchat said:

I think if Tua stays healthy, I believe he can reach Cousins' level. He had the NFL's worst OL last year and now has several upgrades there and a superweapon in Tyreek Hill - we should learn much more about him this year than we did last.

absolutely not.

Any jump in stats will be directly attributed to Hill's ability to catch a 5 yard pass and score. I do not believe in Tua's talent, and how dare you make me defend Cousins. I have made it clear on the board, I do not like him! how dare you!

You don't think it's a bit early in Tua's career to declare that he can't possibly ever become a top 15 QB? The dude's only started 21 games, barely over a single year.

I know the talent comparison isn't close, but Josh Allen clicked Year 3 and was helped by the addition of a #1 WR in Stefon Diggs. I could see Tua jumping into the Garoppolo/Cousins tier with the best OL and receivers he's had since his Bama days.

vikingpwr
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Top Tier QB's May 6, 2022 17:30:12 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on May 6, 2022 17:30:12 GMT -6

May 6, 2022 14:21:09 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

May 6, 2022 14:15:44 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Absolutely not. Dan Marino was a more talented (better) QB.

Then I am not sure why you started with that criteria in the initial post today. I don't think that is what defines top tier QB and it would appear you also don't think it necessarily makes them the better QB's. Otherwise Dilfer would be seen as better than Marino just based on the "who has won a SB" criteria.

In todays league for example I think Burrow and Allen should be seen as top tier QB's despite no super bowl. Just like Marino was a better/more of a top tier QB than other players who may have won won as well.

IMO a top tier QB shows quality when it counts most. Whether you like it or not Trent Dilfer did that. The way I judge QBs differs from you and that's ok.

vikingpwr Living Legend Posts: 21,388 Likes: 4,605	Top Tier QB's May 6, 2022 17:32:50 GMT -6 suncoastvike likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by vikingpwr on May 6, 2022 17:32:50 GMT -6 May 6, 2022 15:41:19 GMT -6 suncoastvike said: Dilfer was a smart QB. You can say that again.

suncoastvike
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Top Tier QB's May 6, 2022 18:18:52 GMT -6

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Post by suncoastvike on May 6, 2022 18:18:52 GMT -6

May 6, 2022 17:32:50 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

May 6, 2022 15:41:19 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Dilfer was a smart QB.

You can say that again.

Funny but it is not really a compliment. Smart in that he knew enough that he couldn't win games but he sure could lose them. 10 completions per was good enough. His best playoff game that year was 190 yards against the Raiders. 90+ came on one play from Sharpe. So 100 yards by is other 10 or so completions. Dude played defense as a QB...lol. Hand off and let the defense set him up for a SB MVP. Winning that was the biggest joke.
Edit: not MVP but was the Disney face that year because...well that much I do remember. Tampa hosted a doosy that year.

I don't like using that team as a standard for what it takes. Because it is still an anomaly not a sure fire plan for success. Seen a lot of teams make deep runs with defense and a good RB usually they only get close. The Ravens got through the playoffs and won a SB over a less then impressive Giants team in the most unwatchable SB I remember.
But yes he did win one.

Last Edit: May 6, 2022 18:43:53 GMT -6 by suncoastvike

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vikingpwr
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Top Tier QB's May 6, 2022 21:02:16 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on May 6, 2022 21:02:16 GMT -6

May 6, 2022 18:18:52 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

May 6, 2022 17:32:50 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

You can say that again.

Funny but it is not really a compliment. Smart in that he knew enough that he couldn't win games but he sure could lose them. 10 completions per was good enough. His best playoff game that year was 190 yards against the Raiders. 90+ came on one play from Sharpe. So 100 yards by is other 10 or so completions. Dude played defense as a QB...lol. Hand off and let the defense set him up for a SB MVP. Winning that was the biggest joke.
Edit: not MVP but was the Disney face that year because...well that much I do remember. Tampa hosted a doosy that year.

I don't like using that team as a standard for what it takes. Because it is still an anomaly not a sure fire plan for success. Seen a lot of teams make deep runs with defense and a good RB usually they only get close. The Ravens got through the playoffs and won a SB over a less then impressive Giants team in the most unwatchable SB I remember.
But yes he did win one.

Compliment or not Dilfer did what he had to do in those 12 games (after Banks got hurt or benched) to lead the team. That's quality play and that's what I judged him on. Most QBs choke or melt under pressure when asked to be the guy starter or backup. Look at Foles....Hostetler. Those are also top tier QBs IMO.

After the 9th game of the 2000 season the Ravens won 11 straight games to win the Super Bowl and Trent Dilfer was the QB. That's a fact Jack!

suncoastvike
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Top Tier QB's May 6, 2022 21:24:17 GMT -6 vikingpwr likes this

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Post by suncoastvike on May 6, 2022 21:24:17 GMT -6

May 6, 2022 21:02:16 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

May 6, 2022 18:18:52 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Funny but it is not really a compliment. Smart in that he knew enough that he couldn't win games but he sure could lose them. 10 completions per was good enough. His best playoff game that year was 190 yards against the Raiders. 90+ came on one play from Sharpe. So 100 yards by is other 10 or so completions. Dude played defense as a QB...lol. Hand off and let the defense set him up for a SB MVP. Winning that was the biggest joke.
Edit: not MVP but was the Disney face that year because...well that much I do remember. Tampa hosted a doosy that year.

I don't like using that team as a standard for what it takes. Because it is still an anomaly not a sure fire plan for success. Seen a lot of teams make deep runs with defense and a good RB usually they only get close. The Ravens got through the playoffs and won a SB over a less then impressive Giants team in the most unwatchable SB I remember.
But yes he did win one.

Compliment or not Dilfer did what he had to do in those 12 games (after Banks got hurt or benched) to lead the team. That's quality play and that's what I judged him on. Most QBs choke or melt under pressure when asked to be the guy starter or backup. Look at Foles....Hostetler. Those are also top tier QBs IMO.

After the 9th game of the 2000 season the Ravens won 11 straight games to win the Super Bowl and Trent Dilfer was the QB. That's a fact Jack!

He had a 59% cmp for 136 ypg and a 79% rating. I think he was along for the ride but yeah he got one. He stunk when he was the guy for 5 years in Tampa. Foles has his ring too coming off the bench. So there's not much of a point there. Same with Hostetler. Difference was Trent stunk before so he became a backup then got a free ride.

Last Edit: May 6, 2022 21:28:34 GMT -6 by suncoastvike

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mngopher35
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Top Tier QB's May 6, 2022 22:27:48 GMT -6 suncoastvike likes this

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Post by mngopher35 on May 6, 2022 22:27:48 GMT -6

May 6, 2022 17:30:12 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

May 6, 2022 14:21:09 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Then I am not sure why you started with that criteria in the initial post today. I don't think that is what defines top tier QB and it would appear you also don't think it necessarily makes them the better QB's. Otherwise Dilfer would be seen as better than Marino just based on the "who has won a SB" criteria.

In todays league for example I think Burrow and Allen should be seen as top tier QB's despite no super bowl. Just like Marino was a better/more of a top tier QB than other players who may have won won as well.

IMO a top tier QB shows quality when it counts most. Whether you like it or not Trent Dilfer did that. The way I judge QBs differs from you and that's ok.

First off of course it is alright to differ on opinions but that misses the point. I am noting how your tiers aren't actually rating who you think the best/better players are. They seem to be measuring something different than others when making the list (team success/final result of team). So of course it is different and even you don't think being higher on your list makes one a better QB as you said Marino in that sense.

What suncoastvike is getting at helps make that distinction more clear. Dilfer didn't even really show elite quality when it counts, he was just on a team that had a historic defensive run in the playoffs. They gave up less than 6 points per game in the playoffs lol, that was the impressive/elite aspect of that team.

Even so rating Cousins based off your criteria would still have him quite low in an overall tier ranking as he only has one playoff win. He would be behind Foles, Jimmy G, Tannehill, Goff for example (all have more playoff wins) and the only ones ahead of him on this list in the OP that don't have a single playoff win is Herbert (who may get one by the time he has played half as much as Cousins now, same with some other younger guys).