Goal #1: Take Back the NFCN - Does it happen in 2022?

Will
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Goal #1: Take Back the NFCN - Does it happen in 2022? Aug 28, 2022 18:37:34 GMT -6 suncoastvike likes this

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Post by Will on Aug 28, 2022 18:37:34 GMT -6

Aug 26, 2022 9:08:36 GMT -6 Will said:

2-4 is quite pessimistic given the talent on offense and defense and given that both schemes produce wins. I only see 2-4 with major injuries or major struggles by KO and Cousins to call and execute plays. Without major injuries in the first eight games, 6-2 is possible and more likely than the 2-4 *poop*

show you fear..

Aug 27, 2022 6:35:30 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

Both schemes produce wins? That's what your going with huh?

@aussie, I mentioned schemes in the post; the schemes were a small part of the topic. But Yes, I do think Donatelle's scheme will be an improvement over the Zimmer scheme which got stale. Only injuries will derail the defense from being a Top 10 unit; with health, I think they can be top 5. Cousins has struggled against this defense, and it could be because the O-Line is not good enough or Cousins is not a good fit for the KO offensive scheme. Or it could be that the defensive talent and the Donatelle scheme are very good.

As noted, I'm also concerned about the IOL, about KO calling games, and about how quickly Cousins gets good at the KO scheme. He might not put up 34 points against a tough Green Bay defense on opening day. Fortunately, Green Bays has challenges of its own without Adams and with some good offensive linemen Questionable to play. Maybe the defense has Rodgers running from pressure and getting frustrated without Adams. At home, maybe the defense makes it hard for the Packers to score.

Just as the defensive starters need to stay healthy, the offensive starters do too. In the first 8 games of the season, it is likely that more players will be healthy, so I think the Vikings do have a good chance to start strong. I think your 2-4 start is too pessimistic given the talent on both offense and defense.

Last Edit: Aug 28, 2022 18:49:29 GMT -6 by Will

suncoastvike
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Goal #1: Take Back the NFCN - Does it happen in 2022? Aug 28, 2022 19:10:50 GMT -6 Jor-El likes this

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Post by suncoastvike on Aug 28, 2022 19:10:50 GMT -6

Aug 28, 2022 18:37:34 GMT -6 Will said:

Aug 26, 2022 9:08:36 GMT -6 Will said:

2-4 is quite pessimistic given the talent on offense and defense and given that both schemes produce wins. I only see 2-4 with major injuries or major struggles by KO and Cousins to call and execute plays. Without major injuries in the first eight games, 6-2 is possible and more likely than the 2-4 *poop*

show you fear..

Aug 27, 2022 6:35:30 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

Both schemes produce wins? That's what your going with huh?

@aussie, I mentioned schemes in the post; the schemes were a small part of the topic. But Yes, I do think Donatelle's scheme will be an improvement over the Zimmer scheme which got stale. Only injuries will derail the defense from being a Top 10 unit; with health, I think they can be top 5. Cousins has struggled against this defense, and it could be because the O-Line is not good enough or Cousins is not a good fit for the KO offensive scheme. Or it could be that the defensive talent and the Donatelle scheme are very good.

As noted, I'm also concerned about the IOL, about KO calling games, and about how quickly Cousins gets good at the KO scheme. He might not put up 34 points against a tough Green Bay defense on opening day. Fortunately, Green Bays has challenges of its own without Adams and with some good offensive linemen Questionable to play. Maybe the defense has Rodgers running from pressure and getting frustrated without Adams. At home, maybe the defense makes it hard for the Packers to score.

Just as the defensive starters need to stay healthy, the offensive starters do too. In the first 8 games of the season, it is likely that more players will be healthy, so I think the Vikings do have a good chance to start strong. I think your 2-4 start is too pessimistic given the talent on both offense and defense.

With 9 home games and one neutral site the schedule seems more in our favor for the defense this season. My only real concern is our depth and counting on key players holding up coming off injury seasons. A strong start doesn't mean much to some of us seeing we've managed to blow 5-0 starts more then once. If we need to depend on our depth to sustain a strong start it might not mean much. I agree the starters especially on defense seems ready to compete at a high level. Over what we had last year. However we need finishers as well.

Last Edit: Aug 28, 2022 19:12:28 GMT -6 by suncoastvike

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Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,644 Likes: 31,566 Fan Since: 1998 Member is Online	Goal #1: Take Back the NFCN - Does it happen in 2022? Aug 28, 2022 22:01:45 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Aug 28, 2022 22:01:45 GMT -6

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Goal #1: Take Back the NFCN - Does it happen in 2022? Aug 29, 2022 7:20:58 GMT -6

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Post by andhesloose28 on Aug 29, 2022 7:20:58 GMT -6

Aug 27, 2022 1:38:39 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

Aug 26, 2022 11:46:50 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

We still had what a top 10 offense last year?

The only thing they were top 10 in were penalties conceded, which lead them to be top 5 in penalty yards *clap*

They were 14th in points scored and 15th in scoring percentage, so very mediocre.

Aug 26, 2022 11:46:50 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Ingram is better than Udoh. It's already a fact.

And you know this how? Ingram hasn't taken a single NFL snap in a meaningful NFL game.
He's a rookie, and NFL DCs are going to come after him.
I study a lot of OL film at draft time and my opinion of Ingram was that he would be best served as a backup in year 1 and maybe develop into a starter year 2 or 3. The fact he has won the starters job this early doesn't automatically make him good.

Aug 26, 2022 11:46:50 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

If your buying into the Vikings this year its because of #1 Kevin running the offense, and managing the actual game.

And how does anyone know if Kevin can actually manage the game? He's a rookie HC who has to learn how to manage the game.

I get it and we will see. Sure Kevin is a rookie HC. But he was a QB in the league, and backup his whole career meaning hes basically been a coach in training his whole career, been on the sideline all game. Then hes been around the block actually being a coach. Dont get me wrong, its still a big jump when your the big dawg in charge and he has to prove that. Im just going by I really dont think it can be any worse (game managing, RG, offense) than it has been, with it possibly being a lot better. At the end of the day we will see this year.

PurpleKoolaid Hall of Fame Candidate Posts: 6,224 Likes: 2,839	Goal #1: Take Back the NFCN - Does it happen in 2022? Aug 29, 2022 7:41:36 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by PurpleKoolaid on Aug 29, 2022 7:41:36 GMT -6 Aug 28, 2022 22:01:45 GMT -6 Funkytown said: How many of the NFC titles go to the Vikings in the past 10 years?

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Goal #1: Take Back the NFCN - Does it happen in 2022? Aug 29, 2022 7:46:29 GMT -6

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Post by PurpleKoolaid on Aug 29, 2022 7:46:29 GMT -6

Aug 29, 2022 7:20:58 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Aug 27, 2022 1:38:39 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

The only thing they were top 10 in were penalties conceded, which lead them to be top 5 in penalty yards *clap*

They were 14th in points scored and 15th in scoring percentage, so very mediocre.

And you know this how? Ingram hasn't taken a single NFL snap in a meaningful NFL game.
He's a rookie, and NFL DCs are going to come after him.
I study a lot of OL film at draft time and my opinion of Ingram was that he would be best served as a backup in year 1 and maybe develop into a starter year 2 or 3. The fact he has won the starters job this early doesn't automatically make him good.

And how does anyone know if Kevin can actually manage the game? He's a rookie HC who has to learn how to manage the game.

I get it and we will see. Sure Kevin is a rookie HC. But he was a QB in the league, and backup his whole career meaning hes basically been a coach in training his whole career, been on the sideline all game. Then hes been around the block actually being a coach. Dont get me wrong, its still a big jump when your the big dawg in charge and he has to prove that. Im just going by I really dont think it can be any worse (game managing, RG, offense) than it has been, with it possibly being a lot better. At the end of the day we will see this year.

Wow, the homerism just oozes from your mouth. Aussie corrected you on every point you made, and you just come out with more lol. Just because someone hopes some things have changed from the past, doesnt make them so. It could be so much worse than everyone makes Zimmers reign. Something being new doesnt make it better.

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Goal #1: Take Back the NFCN - Does it happen in 2022? Aug 29, 2022 8:07:21 GMT -6 kmillard, comet52, and 1 more like this

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Post by Jor-El on Aug 29, 2022 8:07:21 GMT -6

Aug 29, 2022 7:41:36 GMT -6 PurpleKoolaid said:

Aug 28, 2022 22:01:45 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

How many of the NFC titles go to the Vikings in the past 10 years?

Exactly - and the answer is 2, as most know. This is a laughable stat and only favors the Vikings because they combined the NFC North and NFC Central. If they're going back to 1970, where are the Bucs' 3 titles? Or - why not just throw in titles from the NFL Western Conference, at least since the Vikings joined it in 1961? Oh darn, that would give the Packers 6 more titles, 2 more for the Vikings, and ruin the story.

Packers have 11 of the titles for the actual current NFC Central, and we have 4. It's their division, not ours. Other than one-off years and a "streak" of 2 seasons under Childress, we have NEVER owned the NFCN.

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Goal #1: Take Back the NFCN - Does it happen in 2022? Aug 29, 2022 10:24:22 GMT -6 Danchat likes this

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Post by Jor-El on Aug 29, 2022 10:24:22 GMT -6

Aug 28, 2022 11:05:52 GMT -6 comet52 said:

I think the IOL is less of an issue (primarily Bradbury) because we've upgraded at guard and the oline coach is not named Rico.

Totally agree about the sad state of OL coaching we had here since...well since Tice was working for Denny.

That said - a lot of these rosy predictions are built on the idea that, "We had a bad {insert HC, GM, OL Coach, other} and got rid of that, so we will definitely be better now." Nooooo...hey, I wanted total regime change, but now we rolled the dice and there's a pretty good chance these new guys will not be better - or, even more likely: they will not be better immediately. If KOC makes some mistakes this year, I'm not giving up on him. Really, I expect that will happen. This team could easily take a step back in 2022 win-loss, but still be on the right track.

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Goal #1: Take Back the NFCN - Does it happen in 2022? Aug 29, 2022 10:41:39 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by comet52 on Aug 29, 2022 10:41:39 GMT -6

Aug 29, 2022 10:24:22 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

Aug 28, 2022 11:05:52 GMT -6 comet52 said:

I think the IOL is less of an issue (primarily Bradbury) because we've upgraded at guard and the oline coach is not named Rico.

Totally agree about the sad state of OL coaching we had here since...well since Tice was working for Denny.

That said - a lot of these rosy predictions are built on the idea that, "We had a bad {insert HC, GM, OL Coach, other} and got rid of that, so we will definitely be better now." Nooooo...hey, I wanted total regime change, but now we rolled the dice and there's a pretty good chance these new guys will not be better - or, even more likely: they will not be better immediately. If KOC makes some mistakes this year, I'm not giving up on him. Really, I expect that will happen. This team could easily take a step back in 2022 win-loss, but still be on the right track.

Well my attitude on KOC is wait and see. He talks a good game which makes him a fit for Wilf's corporate-speak-centric organization. Whether said organization will ever consistently *play* a good game versus just flapping their gums and pretending about it is still uncertain.

If nothing else, the fact that all reports are that the atmosphere at camp is about 1000% better than last year is encouraging. But I still think the best case might be 10 wins and the worst might be 7. Same old Vikings?

I'm here for entertainment purposes only

comet52 Hall of Fame Candidate Posts: 7,077 Likes: 8,706	Goal #1: Take Back the NFCN - Does it happen in 2022? Aug 29, 2022 10:45:59 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by comet52 on Aug 29, 2022 10:45:59 GMT -6 Aug 28, 2022 22:01:45 GMT -6 Funkytown said: Since Wilf bought the team the lead shrank from 16-9 to 20-18 over the Pack.
	I'm here for entertainment purposes only

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Goal #1: Take Back the NFCN - Does it happen in 2022? Aug 29, 2022 16:59:34 GMT -6

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Post by Funkytown on Aug 29, 2022 16:59:34 GMT -6

NFL Futures bets and odds: The Athletic’s model makes its best bets for the 2022 NFL season by Austin Mock

The NFL season is right around the corner, which means rosters are essentially set; most vital pieces on every team’s roster will be healthy to start the season, and that gives us a clearer picture of the futures market. I’m not a huge futures bettor as I don’t love having money tied up for a long time, but certain spots are just too good to pass up.

My model tends to find value on win totals and playoff and divisional futures more than conference or Super Bowl futures, and that’s where my focus will be. There will be plenty of opportunities during the season to hop back into the future market if the value presents itself, as it did last season with the Cincinnati Bengals winning the AFC at +900. My simulator will run each week of the season and will be directly compared to the BetMGM futures market. Let’s see what value is left on the board a few weeks before the season gets underway.

...

Green Bay Packers to win the NFC North -155 (to win 0.5 units)

Per my model, despite trading DeVante Adams, the Packers are the overwhelming favorite in the NFC. Aaron Rodgers is still one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL, if not the best. And this Packers defense, if it can stay healthy, has the pieces to be a top unit in the league. Rashan Gary had a coming-out party in the second half of 2021, pairing him with Preston Smith to give opposing quarterbacks fits all season long. Jaire Alexander and Adrian Amos should man one of the better secondaries as well. A good pass rush and a good secondary? Sign me up. Oh, and Rodgers is still an elite quarterback. I’ll pay this price all day long.

Minnesota Vikings to make the playoffs -115 (to win 0.5 units)

I know Kirk Cousins gets a lot of crap because he’s not good enough. My model doesn’t think Kirk is an elite quarterback by any means, but I think his perception has gone a bit too far. Cousins is plenty good to lead this Vikings team to the playoffs. Dalvin Cook, Justin Jefferson and Adam Thielen are a great bunch of playmakers, and Kevin O’Connell’s offense should bring life back into this offense. On the defensive side of the ball, the Vikings ranked 13th in EPA/Play last season, which I think would surprise some people. If the offense can produce in their new scenery, the defense should be good enough to make the playoffs. Also, my model isn’t as high on the Lions and Bears as the market, and it seems the Vikings are reaping the benefits.

Link:

theathletic.com/3533377/2022/08/29/nfl-futures-odds-picks-bets/

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Goal #1: Take Back the NFCN - Does it happen in 2022? Aug 30, 2022 0:23:08 GMT -6 Funkytown, suncoastvike, and 1 more like this

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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2022 0:23:08 GMT -6

Aug 29, 2022 7:46:29 GMT -6 PurpleKoolaid said:

Something being new doesnt make it better.

Aug 29, 2022 10:24:22 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

"We had a bad {insert HC, GM, OL Coach, other} and got rid of that, so we will definitely be better now."

And the above two quotes is the whole point of my argument.

When the Vikings went from Elflein to Dozier it was "It has to be better by default". That didn't work out and then it was Dozier to Udoh, same old Purple Pain hopium "Udoh can't be any worse; it must be better by default"
Fast forward to the present and it's the same old "Udoh isn't playing RG, so it's an instant upgrade" Ingram is a rookie, how many rookie offensive lineman make a big impact year one? Very few.
While I thought he was drafted one round too high, I did like him as a prospect. But like all rookies, he will need some time to adjust to NFL game speed and NFL defensive lineman with more tricks than he saw in college. He has some tough opponents on the slate early so we'll see how he handles things. At least the new regime drafted a guard to play as a guard, which is a big improvement over what the previous guys did with their game of OL musical chairs and square peg should fit round hole garbage *hammer*

I'm more interested to see where Ingram is at in week 17, than week 1.

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Goal #1: Take Back the NFCN - Does it happen in 2022? Aug 30, 2022 6:51:42 GMT -6

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Post by Jor-El on Aug 30, 2022 6:51:42 GMT -6

Aug 30, 2022 0:23:08 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

At least the new regime drafted a guard to play as a guard,

No kidding!! That kind of escaped me this year, but it's a huge change. I believe Spielman actually said something to the effect that he figured the best OL on every college team was probably playing LT so that's all he picked and just planned to move them wherever they were needed.

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Goal #1: Take Back the NFCN - Does it happen in 2022? Aug 30, 2022 8:54:38 GMT -6

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Post by snotbubbles on Aug 30, 2022 8:54:38 GMT -6

Aug 30, 2022 6:51:42 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

Aug 30, 2022 0:23:08 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

At least the new regime drafted a guard to play as a guard,

No kidding!! That kind of escaped me this year, but it's a huge change. I believe Spielman actually said something to the effect that he figured the best OL on every college team was probably playing LT so that's all he picked and just planned to move them wherever they were needed.

Thats just crazy if true! Man that is wild.

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Goal #1: Take Back the NFCN - Does it happen in 2022? Aug 30, 2022 9:53:54 GMT -6

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Post by Will on Aug 30, 2022 9:53:54 GMT -6

Spielman realized late that he needed to draft good O-Linemen. He hit on a few and missed on a few. My biggest criticism is the seeming priority to draft athletic run blockers. Games often go down to the final drive, and if your line is weak, your win rate is going to be lower. The Rams had a strong offensive line and the Bengals did not. The Rams won.

Aug 30, 2022 0:23:08 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

I'm more interested to see where Ingram is at in week 17, than week 1.

Agreed. By week 17, Ingram will have a season of experience and no longer be a rookie. I also want to see if they replace Bradbury or if he actually improves his pass blocking. (I'm not expecting Bradbury to improve)

Same for KO calling plays and Cousins running the KO offense. And same for the Defense; they should improve in the scheme. If Hunter and Z are still healthy, the Defense will be very good.

So besides staying healthy, the Vikings need to win some close games early in the season so they can compete for the NFC North, and they need to win their Home games and four away games.