Did The Vikings Put Themselves Behind?

PurpleFloyd
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Did The Vikings Put Themselves Behind? Mar 27, 2022 22:05:38 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Mar 27, 2022 22:05:38 GMT -6

Mar 27, 2022 11:49:20 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Mar 27, 2022 8:50:29 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Well I’m pretty sure if an article was posted that stated they laughed at him and stated drawing stick men in their notebooks while he was talking there are several who would have posted it non stop and drew conclusions that he was the only problem the team had

Well I don't know about that, but it would be more indicative of reality. *whistle*

Mar 27, 2022 9:39:54 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

You comment about “keeping a player who is destined to maintain the status quo of mediocrity “ is funny. Not funny in that people enjoy the humor but funny in how absurd it is.

It's absurd that a career .500 QB who has never been more than a game above or below .500 in 7 years is the very definition of maintaining the status quo of mediocrity? (roflmao)

Oh right, I forgot about the speech he just gave that blew away his teammates. Super Bowl here we come baby!!! *rock*

I mean who knew all he needed to get to that next level on the football field was a microphone and speech a writer?

Yeah well Stafford never made the playoffs in his life and won a SB his first year on another team. Weird. I mean obviously he brought a sh*t ton of mediocrity to the Rams.

Steve Young never had a winning season and then went from Tampa to San Fran and won a SB.

Doug Williams won a SB with the Redskins and then never won a thing again.

Jeff Hostetler won a SB with the Giants and then went to another team and didn’t last two years as a starter if I remember correctly.

Trent Dilfer won a SB and was replaced the next year.

Hell- Brad Fricking Johnson won a SB with Tampa Bay. Why wasn’t he winning them when he was a Vikings QB either the first time in the team or the second time around? I mean he won a SB so he should have done it for us. 🤷‍♂️🤔

HunterMorrow
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Did The Vikings Put Themselves Behind? Mar 28, 2022 0:10:25 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

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Post by HunterMorrow on Mar 28, 2022 0:10:25 GMT -6

Kirk Cousins went to a team that just went 13-3 with a top 10 defense the season before and went...
8-7-1 and missed the playoffs, wildcard OT win and then killed the next game, and missed the playoffs twice.
Because he is premium mediocre.

Stafford was/is a genuinely elite QB who was held back by one of the most dysfunctional organizations in major American professional sports. In his first opportunity with a real team he put up a better statistical season than anything Cousins has ever done and won the Super Bowl. I thought Kirk Cousins was purple Matthew Stafford. I was wrong. Kirk Cousins is Derek Carr with better PR.

Last Edit: Mar 28, 2022 0:32:47 GMT -6 by HunterMorrow

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whoskmoon
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Did The Vikings Put Themselves Behind? Mar 28, 2022 6:22:30 GMT -6 Reignman and kmillard like this

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Post by whoskmoon on Mar 28, 2022 6:22:30 GMT -6

Mar 27, 2022 21:56:18 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Mar 27, 2022 12:33:42 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

I don't have the past 40 years, but since 94 these are the stats of Vikings' QB in that spot

Cmp%	Y/A	Rate
53.8	14.3	124.7
62.9	8.9	89.2
60.4	6.4	84.5
64.3	6.8	80.8
52.3	7.2	79.3
69.2	4.5	75.2
53.3	5.9	71.1
46.2	6.7	68.4
52.3	7.2	60.2
66.7	5.1	55.8
46.2	11.2	55
20	2.9	39.6
42.9	3	30.5
50	2.9	21.5

For that to be true, there should be results to prove that, and instead I see only one opening day QB since Tark to have fewer playoff appearances than Cousins as a Viking. So if he is better, it is not in any meaningful way.

Who would want to go back to making the playoffs every 3 years of starts with those guys when we can make it every 4 years with Cousins?

I just don't get how we get better at the QB spot, something you acknowledge we should do, while continuing to extend a QB on a contract that makes it impossible to do just that?

Results for what? It’s a team game dude. If you can’t get behind that then there is no discussion to be had. 😆

Interesting. You are so scared of starting over at QB that you would rather stick with consistent mediocrity at that position than take a shot at greatness, but then when confronted with the results of that mediocrity it is suddenly a team game where the QB has very little impact on the actual impact of a season.

Why are you so afraid of starting over if the QB doesn't have a huge impact on the results of a season? Lets just throw Mariotta out there for a fraction of the cost and build the TEAM around him if the QB can't significantly alter the results of a season.

ratsalad
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Did The Vikings Put Themselves Behind? Mar 28, 2022 16:00:47 GMT -6 via mobile Reignman likes this

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Post by ratsalad on Mar 28, 2022 16:00:47 GMT -6

Mar 27, 2022 21:48:12 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Mar 27, 2022 12:34:43 GMT -6 ratsalad said:

Yep, he drank the koolaid boys. He's a goner.

Glad you got it all figured out Junior 😆

Just saying, you should put a lot less faith in authority. These guys are just as clueless as everyone else.

PurpleFloyd
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Did The Vikings Put Themselves Behind? Mar 28, 2022 20:33:39 GMT -6 via mobile Funkytown likes this

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Mar 28, 2022 20:33:39 GMT -6

Mar 28, 2022 6:22:30 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Mar 27, 2022 21:56:18 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Results for what? It’s a team game dude. If you can’t get behind that then there is no discussion to be had. 😆

Interesting. You are so scared of starting over at QB that you would rather stick with consistent mediocrity at that position than take a shot at greatness, but then when confronted with the results of that mediocrity it is suddenly a team game where the QB has very little impact on the actual impact of a season.

Why are you so afraid of starting over if the QB doesn't have a huge impact on the results of a season? Lets just throw Mariotta out there for a fraction of the cost and build the TEAM around him if the QB can't significantly alter the results of a season.

Who said I’m afraid of starting over? I have no problem moving on from Kirk if we have an upgrade. What I see is a bunch of
Ready
Fire
Aim

Going on here. Dump him and just pray we find something better. I see a lot of people who want to replace him with no concrete plan for who that person will be.

I actually named QBs I would be very happy to see the team go out and get. Wilson, Watson, Rodgers 🤷‍♂️, These players were available and I would have been all for bringing them in.

You want to draft one? No problem. Kirk is under contract and and Rookie that can come in and take the job I am totally for.

So please remind me where I am afraid to try something different.

Raptorman
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Did The Vikings Put Themselves Behind? Mar 28, 2022 20:56:33 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Mar 28, 2022 20:56:33 GMT -6

Mar 28, 2022 0:10:25 GMT -6 HunterMorrow said:

Kirk Cousins went to a team that just went 13-3 with a top 10 defense the season before and went...
8-7-1 and missed the playoffs, wildcard OT win and then killed the next game, and missed the playoffs twice.
Because he is premium mediocre.

Stafford was/is a genuinely elite QB who was held back by one of the most dysfunctional organizations in major American professional sports. In his first opportunity with a real team he put up a better statistical season than anything Cousins has ever done and won the Super Bowl. I thought Kirk Cousins was purple Matthew Stafford. I was wrong. Kirk Cousins is Derek Carr with better PR.

You do realize that every year Kirk has been on the Vikings he did Bette than the great Case Kennum did in his one year stint. So why do the Vikings suck? You sure it’s the QB. Oh wait, it has to be. He’s overpaid.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

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Did The Vikings Put Themselves Behind? Mar 28, 2022 21:38:26 GMT -6 Reignman, suncoastvike, and 3 more like this

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Post by Danchat on Mar 28, 2022 21:38:26 GMT -6

Mar 28, 2022 20:56:33 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Mar 28, 2022 0:10:25 GMT -6 HunterMorrow said:

Kirk Cousins went to a team that just went 13-3 with a top 10 defense the season before and went...
8-7-1 and missed the playoffs, wildcard OT win and then killed the next game, and missed the playoffs twice.
Because he is premium mediocre.

Stafford was/is a genuinely elite QB who was held back by one of the most dysfunctional organizations in major American professional sports. In his first opportunity with a real team he put up a better statistical season than anything Cousins has ever done and won the Super Bowl. I thought Kirk Cousins was purple Matthew Stafford. I was wrong. Kirk Cousins is Derek Carr with better PR.

You do realize that every year Kirk has been on the Vikings he did Bette than the great Case Kennum did in his one year stint. So why do the Vikings suck? You sure it’s the QB. Oh wait, it has to be. He’s overpaid.

Was Kirk better in 2018 than Keenum 2017? Kirk still had a top 5 defense and mostly had the same team around him and they were 5 games worse. Their QB ratings were about the same, and Keenum had considerably higher YPA and QBR. Well, if you go by QBR, Keenum's 2017 was better than every year of Kirk's career... I don't agree with that, but it is something to chew on.

Hmmmm, so we "ran it back" with a 13-3 squad and added the highest paid QB at the time as an upgrade, yet we went 8-7-1. Now we're running an 8-9 team back and adding one very good player in FA (Z Smith) and hoping we nail the draft and our coach is instantly the next McVay? If those two things pan out [to a degree] I do like our chances of becoming a legitimate contender in 2023, but I think some may be overestimating the veteran players on this roster and not even considering the potential for regression and injury...

Last Edit: Mar 29, 2022 9:01:50 GMT -6 by Danchat

whoskmoon
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Did The Vikings Put Themselves Behind? Mar 29, 2022 6:24:49 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Mar 29, 2022 6:24:49 GMT -6

Mar 28, 2022 20:33:39 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Mar 28, 2022 6:22:30 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Interesting. You are so scared of starting over at QB that you would rather stick with consistent mediocrity at that position than take a shot at greatness, but then when confronted with the results of that mediocrity it is suddenly a team game where the QB has very little impact on the actual impact of a season.

Why are you so afraid of starting over if the QB doesn't have a huge impact on the results of a season? Lets just throw Mariotta out there for a fraction of the cost and build the TEAM around him if the QB can't significantly alter the results of a season.

Who said I’m afraid of starting over? I have no problem moving on from Kirk if we have an upgrade.

You did. Right in this sentence. You need a for sure upgrade at the position before moving on from Kirk. Or in other words you are afraid to take a chance at getting worse at the position and winning just as many games and making as just as many playoffs. Check that, you prefer to stick with Kirk and lose more games and make the playoffs fewer times than getting worse at the position, since the team was better with those "worse" QBs than they were with Kirk. Why?

PurpleKoolaid
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Did The Vikings Put Themselves Behind? Mar 29, 2022 6:35:22 GMT -6

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Post by PurpleKoolaid on Mar 29, 2022 6:35:22 GMT -6

Mar 28, 2022 21:38:26 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Was Kirk better in 2018 than Keenum 2017? Kirk still had a top 5 defense and mostly had the same team around him and they were 5 games worse. Their QB ratings were about the same, and Keenum had considerably higher YPA and QBR. Well, if you go by QBR, Keenum's 2017 was better than every year of Kirk's career... I don't agree with that, but it is something to chew on.

How dare you bother Raptor, the longest surviving Cousins apologist, with trivial things such as facts.

PurpleFloyd
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Did The Vikings Put Themselves Behind? Mar 29, 2022 7:29:48 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Mar 29, 2022 7:29:48 GMT -6

Mar 29, 2022 6:24:49 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Mar 28, 2022 20:33:39 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Who said I’m afraid of starting over? I have no problem moving on from Kirk if we have an upgrade.

You did. Right in this sentence. You need a for sure upgrade at the position before moving on from Kirk. Or in other words you are afraid to take a chance at getting worse at the position and winning just as many games and making as just as many playoffs. Check that, you prefer to stick with Kirk and lose more games and make the playoffs fewer times than getting worse at the position, since the team was better with those "worse" QBs than they were with Kirk. Why?

Well then you don’t understand things very well. I mean if you want the team to get worse and end up being another Detroit or how Cleveland has been for 30 or more years that’s your choice but I don’t think you will find many fans who want to go down that road. And you certainly aren’t going to find many owners or executives who want to do that because their jobs and ticket sales are impacted by such short sighted ideas and they understand if they give fans who are asking this what they want they will be the first to stop spending money on the team when they get worse

whoskmoon
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Did The Vikings Put Themselves Behind? Mar 29, 2022 7:44:13 GMT -6 Reignman, FSUVike, and 2 more like this

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Post by whoskmoon on Mar 29, 2022 7:44:13 GMT -6

Mar 29, 2022 7:29:48 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Mar 29, 2022 6:24:49 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

You did. Right in this sentence. You need a for sure upgrade at the position before moving on from Kirk. Or in other words you are afraid to take a chance at getting worse at the position and winning just as many games and making as just as many playoffs. Check that, you prefer to stick with Kirk and lose more games and make the playoffs fewer times than getting worse at the position, since the team was better with those "worse" QBs than they were with Kirk. Why?

Well then you don’t understand things very well. I mean if you want the team to get worse and end up being another Detroit or how Cleveland has been for 30 or more years that’s your choice but I don’t think you will find many fans who want to go down that road. And you certainly aren’t going to find many owners or executives who want to do that because their jobs and ticket sales are impacted by such short sighted ideas and they understand if they give fans who are asking this what they want they will be the first to stop spending money on the team when they get worse

What evidence do you have that we will turn into Detroit if we move on from Cousins? Since 1994, this team had a .541 record jumping from QB to QB. Cousins has a .524 record as a Viking.

He is not impacting our win % in a positive way and if anything, has made it more difficult to field a winning team.

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Did The Vikings Put Themselves Behind? Mar 29, 2022 9:27:49 GMT -6 Reignman, suncoastvike, and 5 more like this

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Post by Danchat on Mar 29, 2022 9:27:49 GMT -6

Mar 29, 2022 7:29:48 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Mar 29, 2022 6:24:49 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

You did. Right in this sentence. You need a for sure upgrade at the position before moving on from Kirk. Or in other words you are afraid to take a chance at getting worse at the position and winning just as many games and making as just as many playoffs. Check that, you prefer to stick with Kirk and lose more games and make the playoffs fewer times than getting worse at the position, since the team was better with those "worse" QBs than they were with Kirk. Why?

Well then you don’t understand things very well. I mean if you want the team to get worse and end up being another Detroit or how Cleveland has been for 30 or more years that’s your choice but I don’t think you will find many fans who want to go down that road. And you certainly aren’t going to find many owners or executives who want to do that because their jobs and ticket sales are impacted by such short sighted ideas and they understand if they give fans who are asking this what they want they will be the first to stop spending money on the team when they get worse

The idea that failing to upgrade from Kirk will cause this team to become the next Lions is laughable - I did a study on the past 10 years of teams moving on from an above average QB and none of those teams became tire fires after moving on from a QB of Kirk's level. It takes complete organizational incompetence for that to happen, and I find the idea of a guy like Cousins being the only thing keeping us from total ruin to be ridiculous.

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Did The Vikings Put Themselves Behind? Mar 29, 2022 12:05:13 GMT -6 Reignman, HunterMorrow, and 1 more like this

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Post by mngopher35 on Mar 29, 2022 12:05:13 GMT -6

Mar 29, 2022 9:27:49 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Mar 29, 2022 7:29:48 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Well then you don’t understand things very well. I mean if you want the team to get worse and end up being another Detroit or how Cleveland has been for 30 or more years that’s your choice but I don’t think you will find many fans who want to go down that road. And you certainly aren’t going to find many owners or executives who want to do that because their jobs and ticket sales are impacted by such short sighted ideas and they understand if they give fans who are asking this what they want they will be the first to stop spending money on the team when they get worse

The idea that failing to upgrade from Kirk will cause this team to become the next Lions is laughable - I did a study on the past 10 years of teams moving on from an above average QB and none of those teams became tire fires after moving on from a QB of Kirk's level. It takes complete organizational incompetence for that to happen, and I find the idea of a guy like Cousins being the only thing keeping us from total ruin to be ridiculous.

I hadn't seen that article, thanks for re-sharing. I fully agree with the conclusion made and I can't figure out why so many pretend an average or slightly above QB is somehow the only thing holding this team together or else it unravels for many years. It goes against pretty much everything seen in a general sense let alone our own team history. That's without even getting into how his contract/salary makes it even worse than normal.

Whoskmoon posted the win % that shows the franchise has been better without Cousins than with in an extended period. Others have been mentioning how this team played with Keenum and noting higher QBR and more team success as well prior to Cousins. The 3 years leading up to Cousins we were 32-16. Since Cousins we have been 33-31-1. That's a pretty big fall off from recent history since Cousins and we didn't have anything special at QB over that 3 year span.

We have generally been worse with Cousins than without him as a team/franchise so it just doesn't make sense moving on somehow makes us horrible for a long stretch of time.

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Did The Vikings Put Themselves Behind? Mar 29, 2022 12:41:06 GMT -6 via mobile Reignman, HunterMorrow, and 3 more like this

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Post by FSUVike on Mar 29, 2022 12:41:06 GMT -6

Mar 29, 2022 7:29:48 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Mar 29, 2022 6:24:49 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

You did. Right in this sentence. You need a for sure upgrade at the position before moving on from Kirk. Or in other words you are afraid to take a chance at getting worse at the position and winning just as many games and making as just as many playoffs. Check that, you prefer to stick with Kirk and lose more games and make the playoffs fewer times than getting worse at the position, since the team was better with those "worse" QBs than they were with Kirk. Why?

Well then you don’t understand things very well. I mean if you want the team to get worse and end up being another Detroit or how Cleveland has been for 30 or more years that’s your choice but I don’t think you will find many fans who want to go down that road. And you certainly aren’t going to find many owners or executives who want to do that because their jobs and ticket sales are impacted by such short sighted ideas and they understand if they give fans who are asking this what they want they will be the first to stop spending money on the team when they get worse

This is the same BS getting paraded around by Kirk apologists. The Browns didn't suck forever because they drafted bust QBs. They sucked forever because the entire organization, from Ownership on down, was terrible.

How many non-QBs did they draft that were also 1st Round busts? The answer is a lot. Same for the Jets. The Jaguars. The Giants. The list goes on.

And the opposite is also true. The Lions got the Stafford pick right but never contended because they couldn't consistently get enough of everything else right around him.

Missing on a 1st Round QB is only the gateway to 4+ years of bad Teams if your Team has weak Ownership who hire Incompetent GMs that cycle through bad HC hires while whiffing on high Round Draft Picks and spending like Drunken Sailors in Free Agency on all the wrong players.

What about the Minnesota Vikings Franchise strikes anyone here as being one 1st Round QB busted pick away from being the Jets or the Jaguars?

Serious question. If you can't answer it then you are clearly using the 'don't move on from Cousins because the next guy could be worse' as a Straw Man argument.

Last Edit: Mar 29, 2022 12:45:08 GMT -6 by FSUVike

PurpleFloyd
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Did The Vikings Put Themselves Behind? Mar 29, 2022 14:33:51 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Mar 29, 2022 14:33:51 GMT -6

Mar 29, 2022 12:41:06 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

Mar 29, 2022 7:29:48 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Well then you don’t understand things very well. I mean if you want the team to get worse and end up being another Detroit or how Cleveland has been for 30 or more years that’s your choice but I don’t think you will find many fans who want to go down that road. And you certainly aren’t going to find many owners or executives who want to do that because their jobs and ticket sales are impacted by such short sighted ideas and they understand if they give fans who are asking this what they want they will be the first to stop spending money on the team when they get worse

This is the same BS getting paraded around by Kirk apologists. The Browns didn't suck forever because they drafted bust QBs. They sucked forever because the entire organization, from Ownership on down, was terrible.

How many non-QBs did they draft that were also 1st Round busts? The answer is a lot. Same for the Jets. The Jaguars. The Giants. The list goes on.

And the opposite is also true. The Lions got the Stafford pick right but never contended because they couldn't consistently get enough of everything else right around him.

Missing on a 1st Round QB is only the gateway to 4+ years of bad Teams if your Team has weak Ownership who hire Incompetent GMs that cycle through bad HC hires while whiffing on high Round Draft Picks and spending like Drunken Sailors in Free Agency on all the wrong players.

What about the Minnesota Vikings Franchise strikes anyone here as being one 1st Round QB busted pick away from being the Jets or the Jaguars?

Serious question. If you can't answer it then you are clearly using the 'don't move on from Cousins because the next guy could be worse' as a Straw Man argument.

Yeah well how you define the leadership under Wilf then? It’s not like they packed the trophy case or packed the roster with HOF QBs that they drafted. So I’m not sure what your whole post really proved.

During the Wilf era we have only 6 seasons with a record over .500 and we never had a winning record following a season with a winning record and during that time they specifically drafted the QB of the future 3 different times.
TJ
Ponder
Teddy.

So if you actually watched the team during the Wilf era and understand this then your point holds zero value.