Having serious doubts about KAM already?

dauntessmallhands
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Having serious doubts about KAM already? May 2, 2022 9:56:08 GMT -6 NoresemanSam, vikingpwr, and 2 more like this

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Post by dauntessmallhands on May 2, 2022 9:56:08 GMT -6

*unpopularviewpointcoming*

I love the fact that he went all in on his plan and knew he'd take a bunch of heat for it but did it anyway. That's having some serious stones and it's awesome in my opinion. He kicked the entire fan base in the nuts on draft day. Including myself. Where we were all excited and then he rerouted our trip to Disneyland over to Medieval Times.

He may end up proven wrong for doing what he did, but the guy executed based on his what he thought was best for the team and did it in the face of knowing he'd get lambasted for it. And that was pretty much his opening salvo.

That's a badass FU to all the fans who think they know stuff. Again, including myself. We should be embracing the fearless Frank Sinatra mentality here.

For those that think they know analytics and it felt like his approach was haphazard...think again and take some time to understand

For those who think we made those within our division better and got played...think again and take some time to understand

For those who think that he was Rick 2.0...think again and take some time to understand.

Check yourself. The dude went to princeton and stanford and is an NFL gm after being a broker on wall street. He knows stuff that you don't. First because he has a ton of info that he's privy to because of his position, and second because he's likely just smarter than you or I.

Get over your PTSD as a viking fan and the fact that that history somehow makes you knowledgeable of how they should proceed. And embrace a guy who's willing to eat sh*t in order to execute his plan in spite of what everyone else thinks he should do. Let him do it.

This is the guy we've been looking for. The guy that doesn't care about what is conventional or what will make him look good to the pundits. The guy that doesn't care about what you think. Or what I think. So he gets 3-4 years from me to perform. At least. We'll let all of you with your torches and pitchforks be heroes in a few years. But for now, I totally dig his approach and I'm looking forward to what he does next that doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

vikingpwr
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Having serious doubts about KAM already? May 2, 2022 10:40:11 GMT -6 Positively Purple likes this

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Post by vikingpwr on May 2, 2022 10:40:11 GMT -6

May 2, 2022 9:56:08 GMT -6 dauntessmallhands said:

*unpopularviewpointcoming*

I love the fact that he went all in on his plan and knew he'd take a bunch of heat for it but did it anyway. That's having some serious stones and it's awesome in my opinion. He kicked the entire fan base in the nuts on draft day. Including myself. Where we were all excited and then he rerouted our trip to Disneyland over to Medieval Times.

He may end up proven wrong for doing what he did, but the guy executed based on his what he thought was best for the team and did it in the face of knowing he'd get lambasted for it. And that was pretty much his opening salvo.

That's a badass FU to all the fans who think they know stuff. Again, including myself. We should be embracing the fearless Frank Sinatra mentality here.

For those that think they know analytics and it felt like his approach was haphazard...think again and take some time to understand

For those who think we made those within our division better and got played...think again and take some time to understand

For those who think that he was Rick 2.0...think again and take some time to understand.

Check yourself. The dude went to princeton and stanford and is an NFL gm after being a broker on wall street. He knows stuff that you don't. First because he has a ton of info that he's privy to because of his position, and second because he's likely just smarter than you or I.

Get over your PTSD as a viking fan and the fact that that history somehow makes you knowledgeable of how they should proceed. And embrace a guy who's willing to eat sh*t in order to execute his plan in spite of what everyone else thinks he should do. Let him do it.

This is the guy we've been looking for. The guy that doesn't care about what is conventional or what will make him look good to the pundits. The guy that doesn't care about what you think. Or what I think. So he gets 3-4 years from me to perform. At least. We'll let all of you with your torches and pitchforks be heroes in a few years. But for now, I totally dig his approach and I'm looking forward to what he does next that doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

I can't speak for others but I don't think your post was an unpopular viewpoint. Kwesi Adofo-Mensah has only been with us for 3 months.

mngopher35
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Having serious doubts about KAM already? May 2, 2022 10:41:29 GMT -6

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Post by mngopher35 on May 2, 2022 10:41:29 GMT -6

Obviously it is still way too early to be calling to fire him imo. This was a very bad first offseason imo though and I question his ability as a GM at this point based off the moves made. It's tough to say if he was forced into this direction or not so maybe there is some hope in that sense but it's been a rough 1st offseason for him even outside continuing this path.

So much of this offseason seems to be exactly what everyone complained about with the last regime. Triple down on the Kirk Cousins experiment with an extension, push cap back and add void years to keep a non playoff team together while mostly making minor additions (outside maybe Smith). Trade future draft capital away. Pick 5 times after 160.

Then you add things like losing value while trading back 20 spots in the 1st. Say what you want about Rick but his issue wasn't really not understanding/getting value for the trade backs. It was just people being sick of loading up on later round picks instead of drafting higher (we had 5 picks 5th round or later this year too so that also didn't change much).

I really don't know what to make of this team. We keep hearing about a competitive rebuild but signing aging players, trading future capital, and pushing cap back into future years is anything but a rebuild. The expectations with this group were supposed to be super bowl and keeping them together should mean the same expectations. Realistically though that seems unfair to the coaching staff given what the roster looks like.

Last Edit: May 2, 2022 10:42:23 GMT -6 by mngopher35

wivikesfan
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Having serious doubts about KAM already? May 2, 2022 11:37:10 GMT -6 via mobile NoresemanSam, vikingpwr, and 1 more like this

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Post by wivikesfan on May 2, 2022 11:37:10 GMT -6

May 2, 2022 10:41:29 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Obviously it is still way too early to be calling to fire him imo. This was a very bad first offseason imo though and I question his ability as a GM at this point based off the moves made. It's tough to say if he was forced into this direction or not so maybe there is some hope in that sense but it's been a rough 1st offseason for him even outside continuing this path.

So much of this offseason seems to be exactly what everyone complained about with the last regime. Triple down on the Kirk Cousins experiment with an extension, push cap back and add void years to keep a non playoff team together while mostly making minor additions (outside maybe Smith). Trade future draft capital away. Pick 5 times after 160.

Then you add things like losing value while trading back 20 spots in the 1st. Say what you want about Rick but his issue wasn't really not understanding/getting value for the trade backs. It was just people being sick of loading up on later round picks instead of drafting higher (we had 5 picks 5th round or later this year too so that also didn't change much).

I really don't know what to make of this team. We keep hearing about a competitive rebuild but signing aging players, trading future capital, and pushing cap back into future years is anything but a rebuild. The expectations with this group were supposed to be super bowl and keeping them together should mean the same expectations. Realistically though that seems unfair to the coaching staff given what the roster looks like.

Specifically regarding picking lower picks, I mean going into the draft he had 1 5th, 2 6ths and a 7th. I suppose he could have packaged most of them for one higher pick, but other than that what should he have done? Generally it seems that he felt the meat of the value was between picks 30 and 60 and acted accordingly by getting more picks in that range.

mngopher35
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Having serious doubts about KAM already? May 2, 2022 11:53:46 GMT -6

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Post by mngopher35 on May 2, 2022 11:53:46 GMT -6

May 2, 2022 11:37:10 GMT -6 wivikesfan said:

May 2, 2022 10:41:29 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Obviously it is still way too early to be calling to fire him imo. This was a very bad first offseason imo though and I question his ability as a GM at this point based off the moves made. It's tough to say if he was forced into this direction or not so maybe there is some hope in that sense but it's been a rough 1st offseason for him even outside continuing this path.

So much of this offseason seems to be exactly what everyone complained about with the last regime. Triple down on the Kirk Cousins experiment with an extension, push cap back and add void years to keep a non playoff team together while mostly making minor additions (outside maybe Smith). Trade future draft capital away. Pick 5 times after 160.

Then you add things like losing value while trading back 20 spots in the 1st. Say what you want about Rick but his issue wasn't really not understanding/getting value for the trade backs. It was just people being sick of loading up on later round picks instead of drafting higher (we had 5 picks 5th round or later this year too so that also didn't change much).

I really don't know what to make of this team. We keep hearing about a competitive rebuild but signing aging players, trading future capital, and pushing cap back into future years is anything but a rebuild. The expectations with this group were supposed to be super bowl and keeping them together should mean the same expectations. Realistically though that seems unfair to the coaching staff given what the roster looks like.

Specifically regarding picking lower picks, I mean going into the draft he had 1 5th, 2 6ths and a 7th. I suppose he could have packaged most of them for one higher pick, but other than that what should he have done? Generally it seems that he felt the meat of the value was between picks 30 and 60 and acted accordingly by getting more picks in that range.

Well I don't mind that part too much tbh I was moreso noting how it's similar to what the last regime did that many complained about in the general sense. My issue was more trading the losing value with early trade/future pick used in regards to this draft and why I see it as at best average. If we had gotten better value for trading down early (or just in general) I wouldn't have minded the strategy much.

We traded 122/159/future 4th for 118/165/169 though essentially. One was specifically just a 4th for two 5th roungers which is the Rick type move.

Instead of using some of that later ammo to move up a few spots for our guy at 118 we gave up future capital. We gave up a future 4th rounder and156 to move up 4 spots in the 120 range and get two later 5ths. I not only think one move was like Rick but again I think we lost value in all the shuffling again.

Last Edit: May 2, 2022 12:08:28 GMT -6 by mngopher35

whoskmoon
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Having serious doubts about KAM already? May 2, 2022 12:15:54 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on May 2, 2022 12:15:54 GMT -6

May 2, 2022 10:41:29 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Obviously it is still way too early to be calling to fire him imo. This was a very bad first offseason imo though and I question his ability as a GM at this point based off the moves made. It's tough to say if he was forced into this direction or not so maybe there is some hope in that sense but it's been a rough 1st offseason for him even outside continuing this path.

So much of this offseason seems to be exactly what everyone complained about with the last regime. Triple down on the Kirk Cousins experiment with an extension, push cap back and add void years to keep a non playoff team together while mostly making minor additions (outside maybe Smith). Trade future draft capital away. Pick 5 times after 160.

Then you add things like losing value while trading back 20 spots in the 1st. Say what you want about Rick but his issue wasn't really not understanding/getting value for the trade backs. It was just people being sick of loading up on later round picks instead of drafting higher (we had 5 picks 5th round or later this year too so that also didn't change much).

I really don't know what to make of this team. We keep hearing about a competitive rebuild but signing aging players, trading future capital, and pushing cap back into future years is anything but a rebuild. The expectations with this group were supposed to be super bowl and keeping them together should mean the same expectations. Realistically though that seems unfair to the coaching staff given what the roster looks like.

If it were just the poor football decisions I would say it is way too early to pass judgement. However, he decided to spend a 2nd round pick on someone who more than likely raped two little girls and only walked because they didn't show up to testify against him, something very common in those types of cases because of how hard the system is on the victims. That move tells fans he doesn't care about the character of who he employs as long as the analytics say it is a good pick, and while I think he has the chance at getting better at draft day trades, I don't see any reason why he would stop giving monsters a second chance when fans and media have decided to give him a pass when he does it.

Drafting Ingram was a fire-able offense in my book and I just don't understand how a GM can justify that move and still be a decent human being. And if he isn't a decent person, I don't want him running my favorite team.

NoresemanSam
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Having serious doubts about KAM already? May 2, 2022 12:25:50 GMT -6 vikingpwr likes this

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Post by NoresemanSam on May 2, 2022 12:25:50 GMT -6

May 1, 2022 21:06:36 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Sorry, I forgot my laughing emoji. Obviously the question mark wasn't enough for you to realize I was laughing at the fact fans are worried that WRs drafted by the Lions and Packers will keep us from winning more games or winning the friggin NFC North.

I knew what you meant. I was agreeing with you.

"There is no one most valuable Viking. There are 40 most valuable Vikings" - Joe Kapp upon refusing to accept the team MVP award

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Having serious doubts about KAM already? May 2, 2022 12:39:29 GMT -6

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Post by NoresemanSam on May 2, 2022 12:39:29 GMT -6

May 2, 2022 9:56:08 GMT -6 dauntessmallhands said:

That's a badass FU to all the fans who think they know stuff. Again, including myself.

I've gone on record several times as acknowledging that, when it comes to the draft, I really don't know anything (and I've proven it with many historical posts). We get a flood of talent and character evaluations from the media, but that only goes so far. As others have suggested, nobody can really evaluate our moves until two or three years from now. That said, I'm just glad we drafted an actual guard who has a lot of film of him knocking people onto their a$$es. IMHO, that fits any scheme! *viking*

"There is no one most valuable Viking. There are 40 most valuable Vikings" - Joe Kapp upon refusing to accept the team MVP award

whoskmoon
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Having serious doubts about KAM already? May 2, 2022 12:46:37 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on May 2, 2022 12:46:37 GMT -6

May 2, 2022 12:39:29 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

May 2, 2022 9:56:08 GMT -6 dauntessmallhands said:

That's a badass FU to all the fans who think they know stuff. Again, including myself.

I've gone on record several times as acknowledging that, when it comes to the draft, I really don't know anything (and I've proven it with many historical posts). We get a flood of talent and character evaluations from the media, but that only goes so far. As others have suggested, nobody can really evaluate our moves until two or three years from now. That said, I'm just glad we drafted an actual guard who has a lot of film of him knocking people onto their a$$es. IMHO, that fits any scheme! *viking*

Aren’t you the guy who praised the Cousins extension because we didn’t have to worry about him being a scumbag? Now the Vikings draft arguably the worst scumbag to play in the NFL since Darren Sharper, and he is your favorite pick?

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Having serious doubts about KAM already? May 2, 2022 13:07:26 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2022 13:07:26 GMT -6

May 2, 2022 12:46:37 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

May 2, 2022 12:39:29 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

I've gone on record several times as acknowledging that, when it comes to the draft, I really don't know anything (and I've proven it with many historical posts). We get a flood of talent and character evaluations from the media, but that only goes so far. As others have suggested, nobody can really evaluate our moves until two or three years from now. That said, I'm just glad we drafted an actual guard who has a lot of film of him knocking people onto their a$$es. IMHO, that fits any scheme! *viking*

Aren’t you the guy who praised the Cousins extension because we didn’t have to worry about him being a scumbag? Now the Vikings draft arguably the worst scumbag to play in the NFL since Darren Sharper, and he is your favorite pick?

I don’t know, there are countless allegations waiting to be reported that could knock Ingram to the bottom of this list. I think we should just wait it out, and see how far down the list he falls.

mngopher35
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Having serious doubts about KAM already? May 2, 2022 13:29:27 GMT -6

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Post by mngopher35 on May 2, 2022 13:29:27 GMT -6

May 2, 2022 12:15:54 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

May 2, 2022 10:41:29 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Obviously it is still way too early to be calling to fire him imo. This was a very bad first offseason imo though and I question his ability as a GM at this point based off the moves made. It's tough to say if he was forced into this direction or not so maybe there is some hope in that sense but it's been a rough 1st offseason for him even outside continuing this path.

So much of this offseason seems to be exactly what everyone complained about with the last regime. Triple down on the Kirk Cousins experiment with an extension, push cap back and add void years to keep a non playoff team together while mostly making minor additions (outside maybe Smith). Trade future draft capital away. Pick 5 times after 160.

Then you add things like losing value while trading back 20 spots in the 1st. Say what you want about Rick but his issue wasn't really not understanding/getting value for the trade backs. It was just people being sick of loading up on later round picks instead of drafting higher (we had 5 picks 5th round or later this year too so that also didn't change much).

I really don't know what to make of this team. We keep hearing about a competitive rebuild but signing aging players, trading future capital, and pushing cap back into future years is anything but a rebuild. The expectations with this group were supposed to be super bowl and keeping them together should mean the same expectations. Realistically though that seems unfair to the coaching staff given what the roster looks like.

If it were just the poor football decisions I would say it is way too early to pass judgement. However, he decided to spend a 2nd round pick on someone who more than likely raped two little girls and only walked because they didn't show up to testify against him, something very common in those types of cases because of how hard the system is on the victims. That move tells fans he doesn't care about the character of who he employs as long as the analytics say it is a good pick, and while I think he has the chance at getting better at draft day trades, I don't see any reason why he would stop giving monsters a second chance when fans and media have decided to give him a pass when he does it.

Drafting Ingram was a fire-able offense in my book and I just don't understand how a GM can justify that move and still be a decent human being. And if he isn't a decent person, I don't want him running my favorite team.

I am not a fan of the pick for these reasons but I wouldn't take it as far as you. I don't know for sure what that situation was and I would hope they looked into it before taking him. I don't know the full situation or enough about it to for sure say. So I wouldn't say it is fire-able or anything to that extreme I just wasn't a big fan of the move given the issue. Over time if he is a bad human drafting other bad humans I think it will become clear but until then I don't see this as quite that extreme given the unknown.

I certainly don't want someone who isn't a good person but I won't say that about Kwesi off the one pick. My issues with him right now are moreso the direction and decision making than the individual himself.

vikingpwr
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Having serious doubts about KAM already? May 2, 2022 13:37:04 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on May 2, 2022 13:37:04 GMT -6

May 2, 2022 12:25:50 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

May 1, 2022 21:06:36 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Sorry, I forgot my laughing emoji. Obviously the question mark wasn't enough for you to realize I was laughing at the fact fans are worried that WRs drafted by the Lions and Packers will keep us from winning more games or winning the friggin NFC North.

I knew what you meant. I was agreeing with you.

I must get more sleep........... *hammer*

skolvikes
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Having serious doubts about KAM already? May 2, 2022 14:51:28 GMT -6

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Post by skolvikes on May 2, 2022 14:51:28 GMT -6

May 2, 2022 9:56:08 GMT -6 dauntessmallhands said:

*unpopularviewpointcoming*

I love the fact that he went all in on his plan and knew he'd take a bunch of heat for it but did it anyway. That's having some serious stones and it's awesome in my opinion. He kicked the entire fan base in the nuts on draft day. Including myself. Where we were all excited and then he rerouted our trip to Disneyland over to Medieval Times.

He may end up proven wrong for doing what he did, but the guy executed based on his what he thought was best for the team and did it in the face of knowing he'd get lambasted for it. And that was pretty much his opening salvo.

That's a badass FU to all the fans who think they know stuff. Again, including myself. We should be embracing the fearless Frank Sinatra mentality here.

For those that think they know analytics and it felt like his approach was haphazard...think again and take some time to understand

For those who think we made those within our division better and got played...think again and take some time to understand

For those who think that he was Rick 2.0...think again and take some time to understand.

Check yourself. The dude went to princeton and stanford and is an NFL gm after being a broker on wall street. He knows stuff that you don't. First because he has a ton of info that he's privy to because of his position, and second because he's likely just smarter than you or I.

Get over your PTSD as a viking fan and the fact that that history somehow makes you knowledgeable of how they should proceed. And embrace a guy who's willing to eat sh*t in order to execute his plan in spite of what everyone else thinks he should do. Let him do it.

This is the guy we've been looking for. The guy that doesn't care about what is conventional or what will make him look good to the pundits. The guy that doesn't care about what you think. Or what I think. So he gets 3-4 years from me to perform. At least. We'll let all of you with your torches and pitchforks be heroes in a few years. But for now, I totally dig his approach and I'm looking forward to what he does next that doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Yuck.

I'm so sick of this type of spin we get every day from various politicians and media. They'll try and tell you "these are mostly peaceful protests" while you see the buildings burning in the background. I'm sure there are people who buy that load of crap. Thats exactly what this is. We just watched this guy look like a fool and make one of the worst value trades ever, looking purely at draft capital aspect, and all he needs to say is that he has a plan and people will call him a badass. Also, Ivy leaguer doesn't mean squat. I'm an ivy leaguer, doesn't make everything I say or do correct. In fact, there were tons of people there that had zero street smarts and common sense. Just because someone worked on wall street doesn't mean he knows more about the value of money that people that didn't. Hey I'll go sell my house (draft pick) for $50k when its worth $100k just because I have plan and I'm a badass. Nah.

NoresemanSam Veteran Minimum Posts: 7,755 Likes: 4,746 Fan Since: Kapp was king	Having serious doubts about KAM already? May 2, 2022 14:52:23 GMT -6 vikingpwr likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by NoresemanSam on May 2, 2022 14:52:23 GMT -6 May 2, 2022 12:46:37 GMT -6 whoskmoon said: and he is your favorite pick? When did I say that?
	"There is no one most valuable Viking. There are 40 most valuable Vikings" - Joe Kapp upon refusing to accept the team MVP award

Danchat
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Having serious doubts about KAM already? May 2, 2022 14:55:56 GMT -6 skolvikes likes this

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Post by Danchat on May 2, 2022 14:55:56 GMT -6

An interesting tidbit from Chad Graff:

At the end of the first round, just before the Vikings decided to select Lewis Cine, the Packers surprised them with a trade offer. They wanted to move up for wide receiver Christian Watson. Adofo-Mensah, according to a source, wanted to take the deal because the team’s draft charts said the Vikings were getting more value. But collaboration won out, and Adofo-Mensah was talked out of giving the team’s biggest rival the speedy receiver it coveted.

The next night, the Packers returned with the same offer for the No. 34 pick. This time, Adofo-Mensah said yes. In a span of two nights, he’d helped two division rivals land receivers who are big-play threats.

Looks like the "collaboration" was in full effect during the draft, meaning that Kwesi does not have the same power Spielman did. Whether that's a good thing or not is up to you, but it's worth noting.