Cousins Gets 1-year, Fully-Guaranteed $35 Million Extension.

legendsofthenorth
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Cousins Gets 1-year, Fully-Guaranteed $35 Million Extension. Apr 17, 2022 22:30:04 GMT -6 via mobile NoresemanSam likes this

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Post by legendsofthenorth on Apr 17, 2022 22:30:04 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2022 22:21:48 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Apr 17, 2022 21:03:43 GMT -6 Danchat said:

For me, winning 13 games + beating >.500 opponents + dominating the Cowboys in the playoffs + going toe to toe with the best team in the NFC in the Championship game is enough. At least, enough for me to sign up for more, and if Favre were in his prime I would have paid him whatever he wanted. I believe in Super Bowl or bust, but I can be satisfied by being close or at least being on the right path. I am not satisfied on the .500 path with the hope of getting to 10 wins and then just getting lucky in the playoffs - I want the Vikings to be a juggernaut. They don't have to win the SB every year, which isn't a realistic wish anyways, I want them to be a SB contender every year.

I did not intend to mischaracterize your argument, but when I read "we have to find a better QB than Kirk" I interpreted that as ruling out rookies because 99% of rookie QBs are not immediately going to be better than Kirk now. It appears you don't think that way, and I myself don't have an issue drafting a rookie and keeping on Kirk as the starter, so I think we agree on this. It's just that Mahomes was a risky pick (a majority of draftniks had Trubisky graded above him) and a lot of folks think it wouldn't be worth the risk of a new prospect busting.

I do agree with whoskmoon in that I don't see a huge difference between Bridgwater and Cousins - Teddy's passing numbers may be on the ugly side, but the team around him in 2015 was similar to what Kirk had in 2018 and 2019 (all three years having good defenses and bad OL). Having a guy of Teddy's caliber on a rookie deal is a nice thing to have compared to Kirk getting paid the market value. I still wonder what happens in 2016 if Teddy's knee didn't come apart.

Well- have you seen Teddy play the last 4 years without AP hauling the load and not having the defense that he had here?

He went to the jets. Then went to NO. Had a few ok games then went to Carolina. They actually paid a big chunk of his salary to get Denver to take him. Denver tried him and couldn’t get rid of him fast enough. Now Miami signed him as a backup.

If you believe Teddy is better than Kirk because of the one season he was the QB when we won the division then we will disagree just like I disagree that Dilfer was responsible for Baltimore winning their SB and a whole truckload of other examples

Brady wasn't responsible for several Superbowls
Wilson not responsible for his. And Stafford was horrible in the playoffs and still won. he definitely wasn't.

Will Kirk ever win a Superbowl, probably not. Will Watson and Prescott, probably not, will Lamar Jackson, probably not, will Herbert and Murray, probably not.

What are people arguing here? I don't get it

Last Edit: Apr 17, 2022 22:31:49 GMT -6 by legendsofthenorth

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Cousins Gets 1-year, Fully-Guaranteed $35 Million Extension. Apr 17, 2022 23:19:00 GMT -6 suncoastvike likes this

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Post by Danchat on Apr 17, 2022 23:19:00 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2022 22:10:27 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

You don't see a big difference between Teddy and Kirk? Really? You are kidding right?

The passing stat differences are big, but when it comes to impact on their football team... I don't think it's huge. I'd put Cousins around 14th best QB and Bridgewater around 22nd. Durability is a pretty big difference, I'll give you that.

Apr 17, 2022 22:21:48 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Well- have you seen Teddy play the last 4 years without AP hauling the load and not having the defense that he had here?

I have, and he's actually had a good defense more often than not:

2019 Saints (defense gave up 18 PPG in his games, but was average on the whole year)
5-0 (1384/9/2, 7.1 Y/A, 99 passer rating)

2020 Panthers (below average defense)
4-11 (3733/15/11, 7.6 Y/A, 92 PR)

2021 Broncos (top 5 defense)
7-7 (3052/18/7, 7.2 Y/A, 95 PR)

He's not as bad as some make him out to be - his Panthers run went awry (maybe don't pay him $23M a year!!), but he was actually above average in passing efficiency but he blew basically every comeback situation. He was fine for the Broncos this past year, but they had a chance to go all-in on a HOF QB and pulled the trigger. He's in the tier of 20-24th best QB in the league, I'd say. He will be the highest paid backup QB in football [again] depending on the statuses of other QBs like Darnold and Lance.

Apr 17, 2022 22:30:04 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Brady wasn't responsible for several Superbowls
Wilson not responsible for his.

Are you really going full Raptorman on us? Elite QBs don't matter?

Apr 17, 2022 22:30:04 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Will Kirk ever win a Superbowl, probably not. Will Watson and Prescott, probably not, will Lamar Jackson, probably not, will Herbert and Murray, probably not.

I find it interesting you mention Herbert, a borderline top 5 QB who is on a $6.5M a contract... a guy who the Chargers got after they let Rivers go and had no viable backup plan, yet found their franchise QB and have an opening to become a SB contender. Meanwhile, they coasted for years with Rivers, a pretty similar QB to Cousins with his ability to provide stability...

Apr 17, 2022 22:30:04 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

What are people arguing here? I don't get it

Well, I'm arguing the idea that the Vikings are going to become the Lions when they move on from Kirk. It's mostly an argument Vikings Twitter and Kirkistan is making... hence why I did a study on teams moving on from above average QBs that had a pretty definite answer: purplepainforums.com/thread/5594/moving-on-average-qb

Last Edit: Apr 17, 2022 23:21:43 GMT -6 by Danchat

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Cousins Gets 1-year, Fully-Guaranteed $35 Million Extension. Apr 18, 2022 5:32:39 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by whoskmoon on Apr 18, 2022 5:32:39 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2022 22:16:46 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Apr 17, 2022 22:11:07 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

For someone who seems to like to look into stats you would think that you would understand the amount of mount Teddy had compared to what AP contributed to that scoring and what our run game has contributed compared to the passing.

But if Teddy really produced 14 points per drive he must hold some kind of NFL record because that stat is absolutely amazing.

I guess you schooled me there so I will defer

How do you score 14 points per drive. Sign me up for a QB who can score 2tds and 2 extra points per possession. Heck yeah

14th in points per drive. Same as the QB we can't possibly get rid of.

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Cousins Gets 1-year, Fully-Guaranteed $35 Million Extension. Apr 18, 2022 5:56:33 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Apr 18, 2022 5:56:33 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2022 22:16:46 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Apr 17, 2022 22:11:07 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

For someone who seems to like to look into stats you would think that you would understand the amount of mount Teddy had compared to what AP contributed to that scoring and what our run game has contributed compared to the passing.

But if Teddy really produced 14 points per drive he must hold some kind of NFL record because that stat is absolutely amazing.

I guess you schooled me there so I will defer

How do you score 14 points per drive. Sign me up for a QB who can score 2tds and 2 extra points per possession. Heck yeah

Must have been the 2 gloves. Do they give double points for that? 🤔

😁

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Cousins Gets 1-year, Fully-Guaranteed $35 Million Extension. Apr 18, 2022 6:03:31 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Apr 18, 2022 6:03:31 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2022 23:19:00 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Apr 17, 2022 22:10:27 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

You don't see a big difference between Teddy and Kirk? Really? You are kidding right?

The passing stat differences are big, but when it comes to impact on their football team... I don't think it's huge. I'd put Cousins around 14th best QB and Bridgewater around 22nd. Durability is a pretty big difference, I'll give you that.

Apr 17, 2022 22:21:48 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Well- have you seen Teddy play the last 4 years without AP hauling the load and not having the defense that he had here?

I have, and he's actually had a good defense more often than not:

2019 Saints (defense gave up 18 PPG in his games, but was average on the whole year)
5-0 (1384/9/2, 7.1 Y/A, 99 passer rating)

2020 Panthers (below average defense)
4-11 (3733/15/11, 7.6 Y/A, 92 PR)

2021 Broncos (top 5 defense)
7-7 (3052/18/7, 7.2 Y/A, 95 PR)

He's not as bad as some make him out to be - his Panthers run went awry (maybe don't pay him $23M a year!!), but he was actually above average in passing efficiency but he blew basically every comeback situation. He was fine for the Broncos this past year, but they had a chance to go all-in on a HOF QB and pulled the trigger. He's in the tier of 20-24th best QB in the league, I'd say. He will be the highest paid backup QB in football [again] depending on the statuses of other QBs like Darnold and Lance.

Apr 17, 2022 22:30:04 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Brady wasn't responsible for several Superbowls
Wilson not responsible for his.

Are you really going full Raptorman on us? Elite QBs don't matter?

Apr 17, 2022 22:30:04 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Will Kirk ever win a Superbowl, probably not. Will Watson and Prescott, probably not, will Lamar Jackson, probably not, will Herbert and Murray, probably not.

I find it interesting you mention Herbert, a borderline top 5 QB who is on a $6.5M a contract... a guy who the Chargers got after they let Rivers go and had no viable backup plan, yet found their franchise QB and have an opening to become a SB contender. Meanwhile, they coasted for years with Rivers, a pretty similar QB to Cousins with his ability to provide stability...

Apr 17, 2022 22:30:04 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

What are people arguing here? I don't get it

Well, I'm arguing the idea that the Vikings are going to become the Lions when they move on from Kirk. It's mostly an argument Vikings Twitter and Kirkistan is making... hence why I did a study on teams moving on from above average QBs that had a pretty definite answer: purplepainforums.com/thread/5594/moving-on-average-qb

Aren’t the passing stats the thing to look at in a QB? I mean Trent Dilfer won a SB with the Ravens. That’s as many as Rodgers, Manning, Favre and Brees yet he isn’t named in the conversations with them. If winning the SB as a QB is the standard he would rank above Marino yet nobody does that.

Objective, rational people would conclude that due to the passing advantage he has over Teddy that he would produce a better record if they both played with identical talent. Handing off the ball to AP was not a unique talent. Even Jackson could do that and get into the playoffs. But throwing 14 TDs and 9 ints is in no way close to throwing 30 plus and half the Ints.

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Cousins Gets 1-year, Fully-Guaranteed $35 Million Extension. Apr 18, 2022 6:14:00 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Apr 18, 2022 6:14:00 GMT -6

Apr 18, 2022 6:03:31 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Apr 17, 2022 23:19:00 GMT -6 Danchat said:

The passing stat differences are big, but when it comes to impact on their football team... I don't think it's huge. I'd put Cousins around 14th best QB and Bridgewater around 22nd. Durability is a pretty big difference, I'll give you that.

I have, and he's actually had a good defense more often than not:

2019 Saints (defense gave up 18 PPG in his games, but was average on the whole year)
5-0 (1384/9/2, 7.1 Y/A, 99 passer rating)

2020 Panthers (below average defense)
4-11 (3733/15/11, 7.6 Y/A, 92 PR)

2021 Broncos (top 5 defense)
7-7 (3052/18/7, 7.2 Y/A, 95 PR)

He's not as bad as some make him out to be - his Panthers run went awry (maybe don't pay him $23M a year!!), but he was actually above average in passing efficiency but he blew basically every comeback situation. He was fine for the Broncos this past year, but they had a chance to go all-in on a HOF QB and pulled the trigger. He's in the tier of 20-24th best QB in the league, I'd say. He will be the highest paid backup QB in football [again] depending on the statuses of other QBs like Darnold and Lance.

*scared*

Are you really going full Raptorman on us? Elite QBs don't matter?
I find it interesting you mention Herbert, a borderline top 5 QB who is on a $6.5M a contract... a guy who the Chargers got after they let Rivers go and had no viable backup plan, yet found their franchise QB and have an opening to become a SB contender. Meanwhile, they coasted for years with Rivers, a pretty similar QB to Cousins with his ability to provide stability...

Well, I'm arguing the idea that the Vikings are going to become the Lions when they move on from Kirk. It's mostly an argument Vikings Twitter and Kirkistan is making... hence why I did a study on teams moving on from above average QBs that had a pretty definite answer: purplepainforums.com/thread/5594/moving-on-average-qb

Aren’t the passing stats the thing to look at in a QB? I mean Trent Dilfer won a SB with the Ravens. That’s as many as Rodgers, Manning, Favre and Brees yet he isn’t named in the conversations with them. If winning the SB as a QB is the standard he would rank above Marino yet nobody does that.

Objective, rational people would conclude that due to the passing advantage he has over Teddy that he would produce a better record if they both played with identical talent. Handing off the ball to AP was not a unique talent. Even Jackson could do that and get into the playoffs. But throwing 14 TDs and 9 ints is in no way close to throwing 30 plus and half the Ints.

Well, if we use passing TDs and Ints as the measure for judging the QB than Gardner Minshew, who has thrown as many TDs, Ints and yards per start as Cousins. Yet Minshew will sit on the bench this season.

Turns out you need success to go along with the stats for them to mean anything and one without the other, probably means you have a QB who is just along for the ride and will only be as good as the team around him.

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Cousins Gets 1-year, Fully-Guaranteed $35 Million Extension. Apr 18, 2022 6:16:48 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Apr 18, 2022 6:16:48 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2022 22:11:07 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Apr 17, 2022 20:46:07 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Nope. With Kirk as the QB they have generated the 14th most points per drive on average the past 4 seasons.

This stat could be true, but if it is then the last 4 seasons are probably the highest scored of half the franchises in the NFL. When you have a scoring increase pretty much across the board by 20+ points per season, that will happen.

What exactly are you trying to make us afraid of? Considering in Teddy's one full season of starting he averaged 14 points per drive, same as Cousins over the past 4 seasons, and won 11 games plus the division, something we have never done with Cousins in his 4 seasons of starting, that doesn't seem all that terrifying to me.

Watch out everyone! We might end up going back to an era of going from QB to QB with no consistency while winning more games and having more success!

For someone who seems to like to look into stats you would think that you would understand the amount of mount Teddy had compared to what AP contributed to that scoring and what our run game has contributed compared to the passing.

But if Teddy really produced 14 points per drive he must hold some kind of NFL record because that stat is absolutely amazing.

I guess you schooled me there so I will defer.

You probably should if you need to cling to a typo to prove a point.

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Cousins Gets 1-year, Fully-Guaranteed $35 Million Extension. Apr 18, 2022 7:04:20 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Apr 18, 2022 7:04:20 GMT -6

Apr 18, 2022 6:14:00 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Apr 18, 2022 6:03:31 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Aren’t the passing stats the thing to look at in a QB? I mean Trent Dilfer won a SB with the Ravens. That’s as many as Rodgers, Manning, Favre and Brees yet he isn’t named in the conversations with them. If winning the SB as a QB is the standard he would rank above Marino yet nobody does that.

Objective, rational people would conclude that due to the passing advantage he has over Teddy that he would produce a better record if they both played with identical talent. Handing off the ball to AP was not a unique talent. Even Jackson could do that and get into the playoffs. But throwing 14 TDs and 9 ints is in no way close to throwing 30 plus and half the Ints.

Well, if we use passing TDs and Ints as the measure for judging the QB than Gardner Minshew, who has thrown as many TDs, Ints and yards per start as Cousins. Yet Minshew will sit on the bench this season.

Turns out you need success to go along with the stats for them to mean anything and one without the other, probably means you have a QB who is just along for the ride and will only be as good as the team around him.

I don’t know much about Minshew but we have been discussing full season scenarios. Can you post his full season stats to both my examples so we can see how they compare?

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Cousins Gets 1-year, Fully-Guaranteed $35 Million Extension. Apr 18, 2022 7:09:29 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Apr 18, 2022 7:09:29 GMT -6

Apr 18, 2022 6:16:48 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Apr 17, 2022 22:11:07 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

For someone who seems to like to look into stats you would think that you would understand the amount of mount Teddy had compared to what AP contributed to that scoring and what our run game has contributed compared to the passing.

But if Teddy really produced 14 points per drive he must hold some kind of NFL record because that stat is absolutely amazing.

I guess you schooled me there so I will defer.

You probably should if you need to cling to a typo to prove a point.

If you spent the time proof reading your text that it took to look up and post that GIF then we wouldn’t be talking about it. 🤷‍♂️

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Cousins Gets 1-year, Fully-Guaranteed $35 Million Extension. Apr 18, 2022 7:39:48 GMT -6 Danchat likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Apr 18, 2022 7:39:48 GMT -6

Apr 18, 2022 7:04:20 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Apr 18, 2022 6:14:00 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Well, if we use passing TDs and Ints as the measure for judging the QB than Gardner Minshew, who has thrown as many TDs, Ints and yards per start as Cousins. Yet Minshew will sit on the bench this season.

Turns out you need success to go along with the stats for them to mean anything and one without the other, probably means you have a QB who is just along for the ride and will only be as good as the team around him.

I don’t know much about Minshew but we have been discussing full season scenarios. Can you post his full season stats to both my examples so we can see how they compare?

After coming in for Blake Bortles, he threw 21 TDs to 6 ints in his 12 games starting as a rookie on one of the worst teams in the NFL. He was then on his way to throwing 32 TDs to 10 ints in his sophomore season before essentially getting benched, because stats alone don't matter, and results matter more.

A QB had thrown 37 TDs to 11 ints in his first 20 starts, and was benched. He then was available for pretty much nothing via trade and only one team wanted him as their backup, because teams don't care about stats nearly as much as they care about results.

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Cousins Gets 1-year, Fully-Guaranteed $35 Million Extension. Apr 18, 2022 8:20:20 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Apr 18, 2022 8:20:20 GMT -6

Apr 18, 2022 7:39:48 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Apr 18, 2022 7:04:20 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

I don’t know much about Minshew but we have been discussing full season scenarios. Can you post his full season stats to both my examples so we can see how they compare?

After coming in for Blake Bortles, he threw 21 TDs to 6 ints in his 12 games starting as a rookie on one of the worst teams in the NFL. He was then on his way to throwing 32 TDs to 10 ints in his sophomore season before essentially getting benched, because stats alone don't matter, and results matter more.

A QB had thrown 37 TDs to 11 ints in his first 20 starts, and was benched. He then was available for pretty much nothing via trade and only one team wanted him as their backup, because teams don't care about stats nearly as much as they care about results.

Then he might be a good candidate to consider.

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Cousins Gets 1-year, Fully-Guaranteed $35 Million Extension. Apr 18, 2022 9:23:02 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by MidwinterViking on Apr 18, 2022 9:23:02 GMT -6

Apr 18, 2022 7:04:20 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Apr 18, 2022 6:14:00 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Well, if we use passing TDs and Ints as the measure for judging the QB than Gardner Minshew, who has thrown as many TDs, Ints and yards per start as Cousins. Yet Minshew will sit on the bench this season.

Turns out you need success to go along with the stats for them to mean anything and one without the other, probably means you have a QB who is just along for the ride and will only be as good as the team around him.

I don’t know much about Minshew but we have been discussing full season scenarios. Can you post his full season stats to both my examples so we can see how they compare?

Minshew is a wierd one, you would think someone would have interest in him purely based on TD to INT ratio. I looked at his career splits and there was one number that really stood out as wierd. It has been suggested that Cousins pads his stats in garbage time (I don't agree with this, but it's been said). Compare the split for % of pass attempts when a team is Leading / Tied / Trailing

2021 NFL total
Leading: 32%
Tied: 18%
Trailing: 51%

Cousins Career
Leading: 28%
Tied: 20%
Trailing: 52%

Minshew Career
Leading: 11%
Tied: 8%
Trailing: 81%

Minshew has REALLY loaded up on pass attempts when his team is behind. I could come up with a narrative both for and against Minshew with these numbers, the only thing I know is it would need to be part of the context of his career.

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Cousins Gets 1-year, Fully-Guaranteed $35 Million Extension. Apr 18, 2022 9:41:37 GMT -6

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Post by mngopher35 on Apr 18, 2022 9:41:37 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2022 19:45:49 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Apr 17, 2022 17:42:20 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

I am going to as well but we know what happens if things don't work out, the benefit of the doubt is given to Cousins and others get blamed.

If this and that and this all happen then we can make the playoffs and then from there anything can happen.... Is exactly the mediocrity people have been talking about. Sure sometimes we will get in but to most we don't have the actual talent to really compete for a SB. I do think that likely happens this year with another roughly 10 win type season but it was done by pushing even more back and making our future situation worse while not adding assets we need/could have to improved the roster (so basically pushed in chips to win now as opposed to building up for future). I think the Wilfs mostly pushed us this route though so I will give Kwesi and KOC more time to see what they can do given the unfortunate route taken. I think the players they have chosen and way we have filled out given the limitations has been pretty good. The key now is if they can have a strong draft because we desperately need it.

My point wasn't about blaming the new guys at all, it was just about Cousins discussion. More and more are realizing everything the "pessimists" said 4 years ago has come true with him here. They have been right about who he is as a player and the issue with his cap hit hurting the rest of the roster. We have seen it all actually play out, no need to wonder anymore who this guy is. Despite that we keep hearing similar reasons of how it isn't about him and defending the decision to double and triple down over time. That cycle will continue so long as some overrate him and we keep deciding to extend.

I mean if cousins was throwing 12 TDs and 15 INTs and producing very little then you would have a point. Having more Cap space doesn’t get you anything if your offense doesn’t generate points. Ours has been. We actually produced more points over the last 4 years than I believe we ever had in team history.

If there was a better option I haven’t seen it. I was a fan of getting Wilson but it didn’t happen.

We could get Teddy back. He will come pretty cheap. Is that your goal?

It isn't about his ability to produce basic stats, he has a nice arm and tons of talent around him so that isn't the issue. It's that he isn't able to use those abilities/talent around him to actually produce. It's his mental makeup and situational football that are pretty bad that make him more of an average QB overall in leading offenses. That is why as others have already pointed out this offense didn't actually produce a ton despite what you say and the talent around him.

They may have scored more but if so it is because that's the way the game is trending. Compared to the rest of the league is a better way to show that Cousins didn't actually help us generate more points despite the massive cap hits spent on him. In only one of the 4 years since Cousins have we actually had a better ranking in points per drive than the year before he came here (2019, playoff season). Every other year has been worse from that standpoint despite paying way more for him, our offense has averaged about 13th-14th in the league in points per drive it seems since him.

The better option is paying less for other QB's who can produce decent results too but allow us to improve other areas. If you mean is my goal to go back when he was a 2nd year player then... Well the results from Cousins haven't been that much better seeing as we were 13th in points per drive with Teddy. I want to take a shot on improving from this production while also not paying top cap hits for it. If we get a Teddy level player that shouldn't be an issue for anyone pushing for Cousins level mediocrity.

Last Edit: Apr 18, 2022 9:47:47 GMT -6 by mngopher35

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Cousins Gets 1-year, Fully-Guaranteed $35 Million Extension. Apr 18, 2022 9:58:51 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Apr 18, 2022 9:58:51 GMT -6

Apr 18, 2022 8:20:20 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Then he might be a good candidate to consider.

That's why I had the Vikings trading for him in my offseason guide. Here's the blurb:

With the idea that O’Connell will be able to coax better QB play from lesser options, I think landing a guy like Minshew would be an ideal target for a bridge QB for only $2.5M. On paper, I see tons of potential for Minshew to thrive – his numbers in Jacksonville (5530/37/11 [yards/TDs/ints] 62.9% and almost 500 yards rushing) were incredibly impressive for a 6th rounder stuck in one of the NFL’s worst franchises. A few stats worth looking at:

2019-20 Jaguars with Minshew: 7-13
2019-20 Jaguars without Minshew: 0-12

Prorating his seasonal stats and putting them next to Kirk’s:

2019 Minshew: 4089/26/8 60.6% 7.0 Y/A – 2019 Cousins: 3828/28/10 69.1% 8.1 Y/A
2020 Minshew: 4518/32/10 66.1% 6.9 Y/A – 2020 Cousins: 4265/35/13 67.6% 8.3 Y/A

And factor in their surrounding cast over that stretch (BTW both of their OLs were bad):

Jags receivers: DJ Chark, Chris Conley, Dede Westbrook, Keelan Cole, James O’Shaughnessy
Vikings receivers: Justin Jefferson, Adam Thielen, Stefon Diggs, Kyle Rudolph, Irv Smith Jr.

And heck, while I'm at it, let's prorate Teddy's numbers and put them up here too:

Cousins is still the clear best option, but when you take volume out of the equation, the difference isn't huge. And I still don't get why Minshew isn't a starting QB, but it seems apparent that NFL teams look at more than just TD/int ratio like whoskmoon says.

Apr 18, 2022 6:03:31 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Handing off the ball to AP was not a unique talent.

Neither was handing the ball off to Dalvin Cook, who when healthy was close to AP's level... and that's not to mention that Cousins' receivers here have been far superior to what Teddy had (Jennings/Wright/Johnson/Wallace/rookie Diggs/Rudolph). Kirk hasn't had bad weapons like that since his Washington days. Yes, Kirk would do better if placed into the same circumstances, but place Cousins into Teddy's shoes in Carolina (crappy team, Rhule seems like a bad coach) and Denver (Fangio is basically a lesser Zimmer) and the results probably wouldn't be that big.

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Cousins Gets 1-year, Fully-Guaranteed $35 Million Extension. Apr 18, 2022 10:03:41 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Apr 18, 2022 10:03:41 GMT -6

Apr 18, 2022 9:41:37 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Apr 17, 2022 19:45:49 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

I mean if cousins was throwing 12 TDs and 15 INTs and producing very little then you would have a point. Having more Cap space doesn’t get you anything if your offense doesn’t generate points. Ours has been. We actually produced more points over the last 4 years than I believe we ever had in team history.

If there was a better option I haven’t seen it. I was a fan of getting Wilson but it didn’t happen.

We could get Teddy back. He will come pretty cheap. Is that your goal?

It isn't about his ability to produce basic stats, he has a nice arm and tons of talent around him so that isn't the issue. It's that he isn't able to use those abilities/talent around him to actually produce. It's his mental makeup and situational football that are pretty bad that make him more of an average QB overall in leading offenses. That is why as others have already pointed out this offense didn't actually produce a ton despite what you say and the talent around him.

They may have scored more but if so it is because that's the way the game is trending. Compared to the rest of the league is a better way to show that Cousins didn't actually help us generate more points despite the massive cap hits spent on him. In only one of the 4 years since Cousins have we actually had a better ranking in points per drive than the year before he came here (2019, playoff season). Every other year has been worse from that standpoint despite paying way more for him, our offense has averaged about 13th-14th in the league in points per drive it seems since him.

The better option is paying less for other QB's who can produce decent results too but allow us to improve other areas. If you mean is my goal to go back when he was a 2nd year player then... Well the results from Cousins haven't been that much better seeing as we were 13th in points per drive with Teddy. I want to take a shot on improving from this production while also not paying top cap hits for it. If we get a Teddy level player that shouldn't be an issue for anyone pushing for Cousins level mediocrity.

We already spent 40 years experimenting with paying less for QBs who don’t produce as much and I don’t need to remind anyone how filled the trophy case was through that time.

Points per drive is a stat I don’t care about. If you run a lot like we used to then you have fewer drives. If you pass more then your drives are historically shorter on average and if your defense is good then you get more drives per game.

At the end of the day the game is decided by the total points scored not by points per drive. So if you can show me we are scoring fewer points per game I will give you that. Otherwise our biggest holdback going back the the KAO was that our offense didn’t score enough. From what I gather Kirk has something like 135 TDs in 4 seasons and 35 ints. Under Teddy it was like 14 TDs a year and around 9 ints. It takes some twisted statistical gymnastics to make a point that those two data sets are equal.

As far as salary goes yeah , he is expensive. His first contract was more than I would have paid and I wasn’t a fan of signing him. But the increased production have shown that we got improved long term production for the money. There is absolutely no way if we took the production we got at the position in the past and applied it to the teams the last 4 years that our record would have improved.