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Minniman
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Next GM - Who do you want? Jan 4, 2022 12:40:49 GMT -6 comet52, PurpleFloyd, and 1 more like this

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Post by Minniman on Jan 4, 2022 12:40:49 GMT -6

Jan 4, 2022 10:28:01 GMT -6 James said:

I also don’t see Spielman necessarily going anywhere this off-season. He really didn’t have a bad off season. Compared to many of these other organizations, he did good. And with the limited cap room we had, he was still able to fill a lot of the holes, especially on defense.

He filled a lot of holes with has been and never will be players. Every GM can do that. How many draft picks stepped up on defense? How well did his starting corners do? How great was the Vikings run stoppers on the inside - healthy or not?

While the stats may not reflect it, the defense looked better than what we had last year.

Last year was a sh*t show, and Spielman was part of that. Being better than the crap load that was dumped on the field last year by the same GM and head coach is setting a low bar.

We got some good WRs. The D-Line is great when everyone is healthy. The O-Line is still a work in progress but we have some promising players in this trenches.

The Vikings lucked into a potentially great receiver by trading one of the better receivers in the NFL. Kudos for doing so, but that's pretty much a wash.

The d-line is great? Against who? Even when healthy, it was a running back's dream.

There’s talent on this roster. We’ve just been out schemed and out coached many games. That’s not a GM issue.

Who hires the coaches?

Spielman is not a great GM. There have been worse, but he is mediocre, and that's why his teams fail.

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

Danchat
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Next GM - Who do you want? Jan 4, 2022 18:42:38 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth likes this

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Post by Danchat on Jan 4, 2022 18:42:38 GMT -6

Jan 4, 2022 12:40:49 GMT -6 Minniman said:

He filled a lot of holes with has been and never will be players. Every GM can do that. How many draft picks stepped up on defense? How well did his starting corners do? How great was the Vikings run stoppers on the inside - healthy or not?

Let's not forget that Zimmer was jolly at the beginning of training camp, happy that the defense got the new pieces he wanted. Sure, there were still a few holes on paper, but this should have been an average defense, with a very good run defense and shaky pass defense based on the personnel the roster had. Spielman deserves all the criticisms he gets on the FA front, but I think Zimmer deserves just as much. It was he and Patterson who tried to talk us into believing Tomlinson could be a 3 tech, he got his guy Mack Alexander back in the slot, and even got an extra veteran CB in Breeland because he didn't trust Dantzler. All veterans who played [considerably] better in 2020 before joining our squad... coincidence?

Jan 4, 2022 12:40:49 GMT -6 Minniman said:

Who hires the coaches?

Spielman is not a great GM. There have been worse, but he is mediocre, and that's why his teams fail.

Zimmer gets to hire the coaches underneath him, and Rick hired Zimmer, so both should be responsible.

Jan 4, 2022 12:40:49 GMT -6 Minniman said:

The Vikings lucked into a potentially great receiver by trading one of the better receivers in the NFL. Kudos for doing so, but that's pretty much a wash.

A wash? Let's look over that trade again:

Bill get:
Diggs at $15M a year
6th rounder CB Dane Jackson

Vikings get:
Jefferson for $4M a year
4th rounder S Bynum
4th rounder DE Robinson
5th rounder TE Davidson
7th rounder DE Willekes

It takes some serious mental gymnastics to not call this a win... *skeptic*

Of course, it's also the only good trade Spielman has made in a long time, so, y'know. I'm still on board letting him go.

Last Edit: Jan 4, 2022 18:45:04 GMT -6 by Danchat

RickHasBeenFired
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Next GM - Who do you want? Jan 4, 2022 20:02:13 GMT -6

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Post by RickHasBeenFired on Jan 4, 2022 20:02:13 GMT -6

Jan 4, 2022 12:26:05 GMT -6 Minniman said:

Jan 4, 2022 6:49:06 GMT -6 beckmt said:

You can't win without talent, and when about 1/2 your defense is injured, it is very hard to win.

A lot of draft capital was spent on team depth. Those players should have been able to step up and play better than they did. Either the Vikings scouting staff is awful or the coaching was not up to par. Zimmer was too interested in getting his kid and his friend's kid a coaching position than he was interested in winning. Zimmer lacks leadership and lacks integrity.

I am more in that we need a salary cap restucture, and that may not take place until after 2022. Do not know if what replaces Spielman is worse, but you have to try. He put us where we are now (salary cap hell).

Spielman did a Mike Lynn with the Cousins contract believing the team was one player away from the ring. He didn't even understand that the Vikings had gaping holes in the roster that needed to be filled.

I sort of agree with Zimmer, Cousins was not the right QB for this team. The 15 - 20 extra million invested per year in him, spread around could have made a much better team.

Since I stated that clearly before Cousins was signed, I must say I agree with you. As for Zimmer, what kind of head coach allows so much capital to be put into a player he doesn't want? He is gutless.

I think our drafting sucks.

I think Spielman doesn't know how to assemble a team of complimentary players for the schemes they want to run.

I think Zimmer knows this is his one shot and he had to stay in his lane because the Wilfs love Spielman and everyone knows it.

Wilfs loves for Spielman is why we are in this mess. But we can try yet another coach under Spielman and see the same or worse results.
It's not getting better when we continue to miss on players this badly on both O-line and the entire defense.

Formerly known as firerick

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Next GM - Who do you want? Jan 4, 2022 22:25:25 GMT -6 via mobile Longship likes this

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Post by mikenessfan on Jan 4, 2022 22:25:25 GMT -6

Jan 4, 2022 20:02:13 GMT -6 RickHasBeenFired said:

Jan 4, 2022 12:26:05 GMT -6 Minniman said:

A lot of draft capital was spent on team depth. Those players should have been able to step up and play better than they did. Either the Vikings scouting staff is awful or the coaching was not up to par. Zimmer was too interested in getting his kid and his friend's kid a coaching position than he was interested in winning. Zimmer lacks leadership and lacks integrity.

Spielman did a Mike Lynn with the Cousins contract believing the team was one player away from the ring. He didn't even understand that the Vikings had gaping holes in the roster that needed to be filled.

Since I stated that clearly before Cousins was signed, I must say I agree with you. As for Zimmer, what kind of head coach allows so much capital to be put into a player he doesn't want? He is gutless.

I think our drafting sucks.

I think Spielman doesn't know how to assemble a team of complimentary players for the schemes they want to run.

I think Zimmer knows this is his one shot and he had to stay in his lane because the Wilfs love Spielman and everyone knows it.

Wilfs loves for Spielman is why we are in this mess. But we can try yet another coach under Spielman and see the same or worse results.
It's not getting better when we continue to miss on players this badly on both O-line and the entire defense.

You forgot to mention the fact he is terrible track record going all the way back to Miami in drafting qbs. So what does he do? He knows he sucks at drafting qbs and goes out and pays an above average qb elite qb money. And then to top it off he extends him for even more.

James Franchise Player Posts: 3,329 Likes: 2,413	Next GM - Who do you want? Jan 5, 2022 8:34:38 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by James on Jan 5, 2022 8:34:38 GMT -6 How do y’all feel about the rumors of Rick staying but under a different role than his current GM role?

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Next GM - Who do you want? Jan 5, 2022 9:16:16 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by mikenessfan on Jan 5, 2022 9:16:16 GMT -6

Jan 5, 2022 8:34:38 GMT -6 James said:

How do y’all feel about the rumors of Rick staying but under a different role than his current GM role?

I’m fine with it as long as he doesn’t have a say in drafting (specifically oline and qb) as well as making a choice on the hc.

andhesloose28
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Next GM - Who do you want? Jan 5, 2022 9:22:33 GMT -6

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Post by andhesloose28 on Jan 5, 2022 9:22:33 GMT -6

Jan 5, 2022 9:16:16 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

Jan 5, 2022 8:34:38 GMT -6 James said:

How do y’all feel about the rumors of Rick staying but under a different role than his current GM role?

I’m fine with it as long as he doesn’t have a say in drafting (specifically oline and qb) as well as making a choice on the hc.

Im not a huge fan just for that fact that im sure hes good buds with the Wilfs which can make things uncomfortable with the new GM and give Rick some entitlement. But yeah if your telling me he doesnt have any say or persuasion im fine with it but I doubt that'll be the case.

PurpleKoolaid Hall of Fame Candidate Posts: 6,226 Likes: 2,843	Next GM - Who do you want? Jan 5, 2022 11:19:20 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by PurpleKoolaid on Jan 5, 2022 11:19:20 GMT -6 Hopefully the people in charge, via the new meeting tonight if things work out, have been looking at the best possible GMs we could get....not named Rick

Minniman
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Next GM - Who do you want? Jan 5, 2022 23:44:45 GMT -6 Longship likes this

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Post by Minniman on Jan 5, 2022 23:44:45 GMT -6

Jan 5, 2022 8:34:38 GMT -6 James said:

How do y’all feel about the rumors of Rick staying but under a different role than his current GM role?

That's not the way the NFL works.

If the Wilfs don't have the guts to fire their underachieving GM, they should sell the team to someone who will.

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

Longship
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Next GM - Who do you want? Jan 6, 2022 0:20:08 GMT -6 snotbubbles likes this

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Post by Longship on Jan 6, 2022 0:20:08 GMT -6

Jan 5, 2022 8:34:38 GMT -6 James said:

How do y’all feel about the rumors of Rick staying but under a different role than his current GM role?

If the only alternative to that is Spielman continuing in his doomed-by-precedent current role and condemning the Vikings to nothing better than a single playoff win every few years, then yes, let Rick fail upward to Vice President of Looking Out the Window.

But better yet, let’s hope RS is just gone, and not still lurking around the Vikings’ front office.

That way the franchise won’t lose out on a strong GM candidate who doesn’t want Spielman looking over their shoulder, and also waiting in the wings as a tempting and premature security blanket for the Wilfs if the new GM’s rebuild gets off to a slow and/or rocky start.

Deleted Ghosted Member Posts: 0 Likes:	Next GM - Who do you want? Jan 6, 2022 0:41:10 GMT -6 Reignman and FSUVike like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2022 0:41:10 GMT -6 Dec 31, 2021 17:49:06 GMT -6 Reignman said: More importantly, what's his new name going to be? FIREREIGN ;P

vikings84
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Next GM - Who do you want? Jan 6, 2022 8:01:15 GMT -6

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Post by vikings84 on Jan 6, 2022 8:01:15 GMT -6

Jan 5, 2022 8:34:38 GMT -6 James said:

How do y’all feel about the rumors of Rick staying but under a different role than his current GM role?

I hope not, he has been here for 16 years, he overstayed his welcome, he has to go

Brandon
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Next GM - Who do you want? Jan 6, 2022 9:08:02 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Brandon on Jan 6, 2022 9:08:02 GMT -6

Jan 6, 2022 0:20:08 GMT -6 Longship said:

Jan 5, 2022 8:34:38 GMT -6 James said:

How do y’all feel about the rumors of Rick staying but under a different role than his current GM role?

If the only alternative to that is Spielman continuing in his doomed-by-precedent current role and condemning the Vikings to nothing better than a single playoff win every few years, then yes, let Rick fail upward to Vice President of Looking Out the Window.

But better yet, let’s hope RS is just gone, and not still lurking around the Vikings’ front office.

That way the franchise won’t lose out on a strong GM candidate who doesn’t want Spielman looking over their shoulder, and also waiting in the wings as a tempting and premature security blanket for the Wilfs if the new GM’s rebuild gets off to a slow and/or rocky start.

If a GM candidate turns down this job because Spielman is still around in a non authority role than he's not really a "strong" candidate. That would be a sign that he's not confident in himself to do it right. A true alpha candidate wouldn't give a damn because he believes in himself and will go for it.

vikings84
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Next GM - Who do you want? Jan 6, 2022 9:28:49 GMT -6 Longship likes this

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Post by vikings84 on Jan 6, 2022 9:28:49 GMT -6

Dec 31, 2021 11:09:41 GMT -6 RickHasBeenFired said:

I don't know who the next GM will be, but it's very likely we'll be worse in 2022 than we are this year.

If I were GM, I would move forward with Kirk at QB and limp to the best finish I can while working to get younger and cheaper on defense.
By the time this team is good again, every player on defense including Hunter will need to be replaced.

Offensively, you can move on from Thielen and you can start looking at QB's to draft in the 2023 draft.

With the age and total lack of talent on this team, there is no easy button and the new coach and GM will have a hard go of it these next couple of years. I don't see this as a very coveted job with the age of players you have, but Wilf's have shown to be ignorantly patient with the GM's so I think that helps make this an attractive job for the next GM in that regard.

New GM should be shooting for a 0.500 record in the 2023 season and maybe the playoffs by 2024 if we get lucky with whatever QB we draft in 2023.

It is a risk that we are willing to take or we will be stuck in mediocrity with Zimmer and Speilman

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Next GM - Who do you want? Jan 6, 2022 10:07:31 GMT -6

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Post by Jor-El on Jan 6, 2022 10:07:31 GMT -6

Jan 4, 2022 18:42:38 GMT -6 Danchat said:

[abbr class="o-timestamp time" data-timestamp="1641321649000" title="Tue Jan 04 2022 12:40:49 GMT-0600 (Central Standard Time)"]Jan 4, 2022 at 12:40pm[/abbr] Minniman said:

The Vikings lucked into a potentially great receiver by trading one of the better receivers in the NFL. Kudos for doing so, but that's pretty much a wash.

A wash? Let's look over that trade again:

Bill get:
Diggs at $15M a year
6th rounder CB Dane Jackson

Vikings get:
Jefferson for $4M a year
4th rounder S Bynum
4th rounder DE Robinson
5th rounder TE Davidson
7th rounder DE Willekes

It takes some serious mental gymnastics to not call this a win... *skeptic*

Of course, it's also the only good trade Spielman has made in a long time, so, y'know. I'm still on board letting him go.

Gymnastics lesson time.

You're looking at it with survivors' bias - that is, it worked out for ME, so it must have been a good deal, even though the odds were against it. Like, 4 people not wearing seatbelts in a car crash, and 3 are killed but one lives and he declares he is proof seatbelts don't matter.

Ignore Davidson, Willekes, Robinson and even Bynum - those are day 3 "magic beans" that Spielman loves to collect but have proven nothing. The core of this trade was:

* A PROVEN top-5 WR age 26 at the time under contract 4 more years (Diggs)
for
* A bottom-third of the first round pick, in the hands of a GM who had failed the last 3 times he used similar picks on a WR (Treadwell, Patterson, Harvin)

In essence, the Bills gave Spielman a scratch-off lotto ticket and he gave them a $50 bill. Now, Spielman happened to win $100 on that ticket and is declaring himself a genius. Good for him. Know what? The Bills - and every smart team in the NFL - would take that trade from him again, every day of the week. By my count, Spielman has picked busts with 5 of his last 7 first-round picks (and Darrisaw really too soon to know).

If the Diggs trade was such a win, why not let Spielman trade Brian O'Neill and Dalvin Cook for late first-round picks this offseason? If he can definitely turn those picks into younger, cheaper, better RBs and OTs, why not do it all the time??