Retool or Rebuild for 2022?

pinfante79
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 3, 2022 8:30:36 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Feb 3, 2022 8:30:36 GMT -6

Feb 3, 2022 8:26:54 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Feb 3, 2022 8:02:21 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

We should have got more out of having Dalvin and Thielen. By going rebuild the rest of their productive years are in the trash. But we're not going to rebuild it right. Because if you're to rebuild it right neither one of those guys along with Harrison Smith will be on the team week one next year.

But this franchise has its head up its ass It won't even do a rebuild correctly....

I've never seen so many fans of a team want the team to go 3 and 13 so bad. Who's going to evaluate the talent if we do end up with a high draft pick? We know our GM does not have a talent evaluation background? We don't have an experienced talent evaluator at Head Coach. Who's the head voice in the room that identifies talent? Especially if you end up with a top three pick because your team is awful?

Dalvin Cooks are a dime a dozen, Thielen is great but end of the day no one man is going to win a championship. Many star players in the league have "wasted" years. End of the day im a Vikings fan not a single player fan. You have to build a team correctly which we havent in the 16 years Rick was here. We had a little window 2015-2017 were a lot of bad things went against us injury wise. I want that 2015 feeling again, which is where we could be headed in a year if we do this right. But other than that our only real shot was when Brett Favre was brought in, yet again another shortcut attempt. Again we are scared of missing out on something we have never had it is quite strange. Sure Kwesi and O'Connell could end up being total failures just like Rick and Zim were. But being worried shouldnt really be an option, if anything excitement should be we actually have something new going on.

I wouldn't call Rick and Zimmer "total failures"... That's just the tactic to try to lower the bar for the new guys...

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cbvikingsfan
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 3, 2022 8:42:20 GMT -6 Purple Pain likes this

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Post by cbvikingsfan on Feb 3, 2022 8:42:20 GMT -6

I'm new to this board but I'm going to bet we either ride Cousin's time out or renew him, as long as he forgoes these guaranteed contracts that he has been signing. I sure hope Mensah is not foolish enough to agree to that. I'm going to bet that KOC thinks he can win with Kirk, after all, statistically he is very good and the offense is good and could be better with a quality starting center.

Defensively, Hunter can go, we haven't had him for two years and yet I believe we were second in the NFL in sacks last year. That would lower our cap money right there, then we could get rid of one of our big defensive tackles and our cap money should be good to go. I might be drinking purple cool aid but I don't think we are that far off, we just need a coach and a defensive coordinator who are not old school and more progressive.

diehardtwinsfan
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 3, 2022 9:18:08 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Feb 3, 2022 9:18:08 GMT -6

I've been on a few people's case about the odds of retaining Cousins. I do think those odds went up unfortunately with this hire. I hope not. I still think moving on from Cousins is the right answer, especially if a team is willing to pony up. I really think a Cousins for Mayfield + picks swap makes a lot of sense if Cleveland is desperate to win now; and, considering Stefanski's exposure to QB development in our time here, that may make a ton of sense for both teams in the long term.

pinfante79
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 3, 2022 9:20:04 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Feb 3, 2022 9:20:04 GMT -6

My thought process is at this point you completely blow up the roster this off-season. Since you made two very strange hires at GM and coach this gives them a clean slate and after 2 years if we're not on a clear cut upswing you can cut them both loose and hire real people...

And if we are in the upswing then great... For 2 years make a decision at that point. Let's not let this drag on. But if it doesn't work this time hire experience people next time... 2 year max experiment here.

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TAFKASP
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 3, 2022 12:43:50 GMT -6 via mobile suncoastvike, andhesloose28, and 2 more like this

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Post by TAFKASP on Feb 3, 2022 12:43:50 GMT -6

Feb 3, 2022 9:20:04 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

My thought process is at this point you completely blow up the roster this off-season. Since you made two very strange hires at GM and coach this gives them a clean slate and after 2 years if we're not on a clear cut upswing you can cut them both loose and hire real people...

And if we are in the upswing then great... For 2 years make a decision at that point. Let's not let this drag on. But if it doesn't work this time hire experience people next time... 2 year max experiment here.

You've been on quite the roller-coaster ride of late, are you feeling okay? LOL

Last Edit: Feb 3, 2022 12:44:06 GMT -6 by TAFKASP

sudo dnf install beer

suncoastvike
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 3, 2022 14:34:58 GMT -6

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Post by suncoastvike on Feb 3, 2022 14:34:58 GMT -6

Feb 3, 2022 9:20:04 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

My thought process is at this point you completely blow up the roster this off-season. Since you made two very strange hires at GM and coach this gives them a clean slate and after 2 years if we're not on a clear cut upswing you can cut them both loose and hire real people...

And if we are in the upswing then great... For 2 years make a decision at that point. Let's not let this drag on. But if it doesn't work this time hire experience people next time... 2 year max experiment here.

So blow up this roster to suit you? If Harbaugh was hired then go win now. Do I have your motives right here. Sounds a little like set them up to fail to prove I'm right.

I think roster changes were coming regardless. If Harbaugh was happy with this roster that would be kinda too bad. We got cap issues too. On the other hand if these guys think there's enough to win now while making tweaks needed the same fits. Either way choices will be made hopefully with both long and short term best interests in mind.

If being a Viking fan was easy ~ everyone would do it.

PurpleFloyd
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 3, 2022 15:38:36 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Feb 3, 2022 15:38:36 GMT -6

Feb 3, 2022 9:18:08 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

I've been on a few people's case about the odds of retaining Cousins. I do think those odds went up unfortunately with this hire. I hope not. I still think moving on from Cousins is the right answer, especially if a team is willing to pony up. I really think a Cousins for Mayfield + picks swap makes a lot of sense if Cleveland is desperate to win now; and, considering Stefanski's exposure to QB development in our time here, that may make a ton of sense for both teams in the long term.

I don’t see how Mayfield makes any sense. First off Kirk is better. Second we are not going to gain enough from the little we save in a swap to make up for the difference.

Unless we get more draft picks for Kirk that is believable we might as well play him this next year while drafting someone who they think is better. And if there isn’t someone better then why draft them?

After next year Kirks salary comes off the books and we can just let him walk if we have someone on the roster who can do what people say Kirk can’t.

PurpleFloyd
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 3, 2022 15:40:29 GMT -6 via mobile MidwinterViking, FSUVike, and 1 more like this

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Feb 3, 2022 15:40:29 GMT -6

Feb 3, 2022 9:20:04 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

My thought process is at this point you completely blow up the roster this off-season. Since you made two very strange hires at GM and coach this gives them a clean slate and after 2 years if we're not on a clear cut upswing you can cut them both loose and hire real people...

And if we are in the upswing then great... For 2 years make a decision at that point. Let's not let this drag on. But if it doesn't work this time hire experience people next time... 2 year max experiment here.

The hires are not strange. You are just pissy because Harbaugh screwed up and showed up unprepared.

andhesloose28
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 4, 2022 7:31:38 GMT -6 Fenrir likes this

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Post by andhesloose28 on Feb 4, 2022 7:31:38 GMT -6

Feb 3, 2022 9:18:08 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

I've been on a few people's case about the odds of retaining Cousins. I do think those odds went up unfortunately with this hire. I hope not. I still think moving on from Cousins is the right answer, especially if a team is willing to pony up. I really think a Cousins for Mayfield + picks swap makes a lot of sense if Cleveland is desperate to win now; and, considering Stefanski's exposure to QB development in our time here, that may make a ton of sense for both teams in the long term.

I think the odds went down with the Kevin hiring. If Harbough was to be hired we likely extend kirk and keep trying to hang on and win now. Now we have all options open and Kwesi and Kevin can build a roster together and the right way. I got sucked into the Harbough hype, but at the end of the day I think this was the best way to go so we can build this team right, no shortcuts.

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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 4, 2022 7:59:12 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Feb 4, 2022 7:59:12 GMT -6

Feb 4, 2022 7:31:38 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Feb 3, 2022 9:18:08 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

I've been on a few people's case about the odds of retaining Cousins. I do think those odds went up unfortunately with this hire. I hope not. I still think moving on from Cousins is the right answer, especially if a team is willing to pony up. I really think a Cousins for Mayfield + picks swap makes a lot of sense if Cleveland is desperate to win now; and, considering Stefanski's exposure to QB development in our time here, that may make a ton of sense for both teams in the long term.

I think the odds went down with the Kevin hiring. If Harbough was to be hired we likely extend kirk and keep trying to hang on and win now. Now we have all options open and Kwesi and Kevin can build a roster together and the right way. I got sucked into the Harbough hype, but at the end of the day I think this was the best way to go so we can build this team right, no shortcuts.

The more I chew on this, the more I think you're right.

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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 4, 2022 8:04:05 GMT -6 andhesloose28 likes this

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Feb 4, 2022 8:04:05 GMT -6

Feb 3, 2022 15:38:36 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Feb 3, 2022 9:18:08 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

I've been on a few people's case about the odds of retaining Cousins. I do think those odds went up unfortunately with this hire. I hope not. I still think moving on from Cousins is the right answer, especially if a team is willing to pony up. I really think a Cousins for Mayfield + picks swap makes a lot of sense if Cleveland is desperate to win now; and, considering Stefanski's exposure to QB development in our time here, that may make a ton of sense for both teams in the long term.

I don’t see how Mayfield makes any sense. First off Kirk is better. Second we are not going to gain enough from the little we save in a swap to make up for the difference.

Unless we get more draft picks for Kirk that is believable we might as well play him this next year while drafting someone who they think is better. And if there isn’t someone better then why draft them?

After next year Kirks salary comes off the books and we can just let him walk if we have someone on the roster who can do what people say Kirk can’t.

The goal isn't to win in 2022. Mayfield makes sense b/c we can take him on and get some premium pick(s) out of the deal and then part ways with him in 2023 if he sucks. He's an unrestricted FA. If his problems in Cleveland had more to do with Stefanski's inability to develop a QB like his coaching tree mentor, then perhaps that's the case. But it does give us a chance to kick the tires on a higher ceiling option and see if we can do something that the Browns couldn't, plus we'd probably get some high picks. I'd probably target 2023 picks so we have ammo to move up and get a QB if needs be, and given that the Browns are win now, they probably would be more than happy to do it.

I don't expect a Stafford haul, but a swap plus the 2023 first would be a no brainer.

andhesloose28
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 4, 2022 8:10:21 GMT -6

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Post by andhesloose28 on Feb 4, 2022 8:10:21 GMT -6

Feb 4, 2022 7:59:12 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

Feb 4, 2022 7:31:38 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

I think the odds went down with the Kevin hiring. If Harbough was to be hired we likely extend kirk and keep trying to hang on and win now. Now we have all options open and Kwesi and Kevin can build a roster together and the right way. I got sucked into the Harbough hype, but at the end of the day I think this was the best way to go so we can build this team right, no shortcuts.

The more I chew on this, the more I think you're right.

I mean im still scared they will extend him until he actually gets traded lol I dont see how they play out the 45 million and just let him walk although I would be open to that. I think the only question they have is what will JJ think. End of day Kirk gives them the best chance to win now and best to feed JJ. They shouldnt care and I dont care, but Im sure they will. For me it will be a huge relief if they ship off Kirk before the draft, that tells me they are serious in building this team right and dont care what others think.

PurpleFloyd
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 4, 2022 13:23:53 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Feb 4, 2022 13:23:53 GMT -6

Feb 4, 2022 8:04:05 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

Feb 3, 2022 15:38:36 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

I don’t see how Mayfield makes any sense. First off Kirk is better. Second we are not going to gain enough from the little we save in a swap to make up for the difference.

Unless we get more draft picks for Kirk that is believable we might as well play him this next year while drafting someone who they think is better. And if there isn’t someone better then why draft them?

After next year Kirks salary comes off the books and we can just let him walk if we have someone on the roster who can do what people say Kirk can’t.

The goal isn't to win in 2022. Mayfield makes sense b/c we can take him on and get some premium pick(s) out of the deal and then part ways with him in 2023 if he sucks. He's an unrestricted FA. If his problems in Cleveland had more to do with Stefanski's inability to develop a QB like his coaching tree mentor, then perhaps that's the case. But it does give us a chance to kick the tires on a higher ceiling option and see if we can do something that the Browns couldn't, plus we'd probably get some high picks. I'd probably target 2023 picks so we have ammo to move up and get a QB if needs be, and given that the Browns are win now, they probably would be more than happy to do it.

I don't expect a Stafford haul, but a swap plus the 2023 first would be a no brainer.

If Kirk is as bad is he is said to be by Minnesota fans then why in heck would Cleveland give us a 1 for him instead of using it to draft the guy we would pick with it?

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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 4, 2022 14:01:50 GMT -6

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Post by Fenrir on Feb 4, 2022 14:01:50 GMT -6

Without Harbaugh you blow up the roster. The QB isn't good enough to carry this green head coach like Rodgers and Burrow did. The defense isn't good and an offensive assistant turned head coach isn't going to have any clue how to fix it. Unless you bring in a guy like Fangio(which apparently was only a Harbuagh thing), like McVey did when he hired Phillips because he didn't have a clue on how to manage that side of the team we stand no chance.

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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 4, 2022 14:22:36 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Feb 4, 2022 14:22:36 GMT -6

Feb 4, 2022 13:23:53 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Feb 4, 2022 8:04:05 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

The goal isn't to win in 2022. Mayfield makes sense b/c we can take him on and get some premium pick(s) out of the deal and then part ways with him in 2023 if he sucks. He's an unrestricted FA. If his problems in Cleveland had more to do with Stefanski's inability to develop a QB like his coaching tree mentor, then perhaps that's the case. But it does give us a chance to kick the tires on a higher ceiling option and see if we can do something that the Browns couldn't, plus we'd probably get some high picks. I'd probably target 2023 picks so we have ammo to move up and get a QB if needs be, and given that the Browns are win now, they probably would be more than happy to do it.

I don't expect a Stafford haul, but a swap plus the 2023 first would be a no brainer.

If Kirk is as bad is he is said to be by Minnesota fans then why in heck would Cleveland give us a 1 for him instead of using it to draft the guy we would pick with it?

I wouldn't pay attention to Minnesota fans personally. Kirk has value, the question is how much.