Week 6 - Vikings @ Panthers Support Group

wivikesfan
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Week 6 - Vikings @ Panthers Support Group Oct 17, 2021 17:43:39 GMT -6 via mobile Danchat likes this

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Post by wivikesfan on Oct 17, 2021 17:43:39 GMT -6

Oct 17, 2021 17:23:58 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Oct 17, 2021 16:19:14 GMT -6 HunterMorrow said:

Zimmerball is coaching like sh*t IN THE CONTEXT OF THE ENTIRE GAME, with the understanding that Zimmer is the head coach of the entire team, he coached like sh*t. Failing to close out halves and still having awful special teams, which is everybody's fault but the head coaches' fault. Its every dumb characteristic of him that makes what should be 20 point victories into final possessions and field goal attempts and overtime cheek clenchers.

A 10 point lead that should be a 20 point lead turning into a cheek clencher? That's like every other game with Zimmer. That's what the Cardinals game was.

This was a poorly-coached game? How so? Can you provide some examples? I named some issues with missed opportunities in the red zone settling for field goals, failed two-point conversions, allowing 14 points off turnovers, missed field goals, penalties, etc. that resulted in the game being closer than it should have been.

So care to name some coaching decisions today that affected the game more than what I previously mentioned? Going to tell me how we ran too much on first and second down when Vilma literally complained about passing too much on first and second, and failing, setting up 3rd and longs? Because he did that three or four drives in a row. But I bet we ran too much on early downs for some of you here. And I bet with nearly 600 yards against one of the better defenses in the NFL was playing too conservatively. Love to hear that argument, too.

Look, if you guys are still mad about last week, or something from last year, or maybe 2018... just say that. But apparently we watched different games today, because I didn't see a poorly-coached game at all. I saw some missed opportunities and untimely mistakes, but a poorly-coached, conservative game? Not at all.

Awful special teams? Another false narrative. Keep 'em coming!

2nd and 1 run 1st play of the 2nd quarter.

When up 12 to 10, 2nd down and 2, another 1 yard run.

4th and 4 on the Carolina 32, hardly a gimme, kicking and missing the fg instead of getting the 4 yards.

Vikes up 28 to 20, Car 32, run for -3 on 3rd down.

So many wasted opportunities

Last Edit: Oct 17, 2021 17:45:26 GMT -6 by wivikesfan

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Week 6 - Vikings @ Panthers Support Group Oct 17, 2021 17:44:40 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by wivikesfan on Oct 17, 2021 17:44:40 GMT -6

Oct 17, 2021 17:37:44 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Oct 17, 2021 17:34:23 GMT -6 wivikesfan said:

His decisions say otherwise, overall. The number of 'play not to lose' calls he makes are pretty staggering. I don't care if he says he wants to stomp teams when they're down. The reality is he doesn't.

What percentage of offensive plays do you guys think he calls?

Irrelevant question

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Week 6 - Vikings @ Panthers Support Group Oct 17, 2021 17:45:08 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Josey Wales on Oct 17, 2021 17:45:08 GMT -6

Couldn't watch the game today because of the wedding, how did Darrisaw look? I noticed we didn't give up any sacks so I'd say he was at least decent, that is, if he got the majority of the snaps.

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Week 6 - Vikings @ Panthers Support Group Oct 17, 2021 17:46:38 GMT -6 via mobile suncoastvike and Josey Wales like this

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Post by wivikesfan on Oct 17, 2021 17:46:38 GMT -6

Oct 17, 2021 17:45:08 GMT -6 Josey Wales said:

Couldn't watch the game today because of the wedding, how did Darrisaw look? I noticed we didn't give up any sacks so I'd say he was at least decent, that is, if he got the majority of the snaps.

I think he had 1 bad beat, but overall really solid. I rewatched the overtime TD several times and everyone, including Darrisaw, did a nice job. I'm fully confident that Hill would have had a much worse game, they have some pass rushers.

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Week 6 - Vikings @ Panthers Support Group Oct 17, 2021 17:51:21 GMT -6 TAFKASP likes this

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Post by Funkytown on Oct 17, 2021 17:51:21 GMT -6

Oct 17, 2021 17:44:40 GMT -6 wivikesfan said:

Oct 17, 2021 17:37:44 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

What percentage of offensive plays do you guys think he calls?

Irrelevant question

It's very relevant if you're going to accuse him of meddling into the offense to the point of calling plays, especially in crucial moments.

One week, he's not involved enough. The next, he's calling too many conservative plays. lol.

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Week 6 - Vikings @ Panthers Support Group Oct 17, 2021 18:00:14 GMT -6 via mobile PurpleKoolaid likes this

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Post by wivikesfan on Oct 17, 2021 18:00:14 GMT -6

Oct 17, 2021 17:51:21 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Oct 17, 2021 17:44:40 GMT -6 wivikesfan said:

Irrelevant question

It's very relevant if you're going to accuse him of meddling into the offense to the point of calling plays, especially in crucial moments.

One week, he's not involved enough. The next, he's calling too many conservative plays. lol.

He's the head coach. Credited when it goes well, blamed when it doesn't. Whether he calls all plays or none. He dictates the tone and direction. Zimmerball is a thing.

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Week 6 - Vikings @ Panthers Support Group Oct 17, 2021 18:00:33 GMT -6

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Post by Funkytown on Oct 17, 2021 18:00:33 GMT -6

Oct 17, 2021 17:43:39 GMT -6 wivikesfan said:

2nd and 1 run 1st play of the 2nd quarter.

When up 12 to 10, 2nd down and 2, another 1 yard run.

4th and 4 on the Carolina 32, hardly a gimme, kicking and missing the fg instead of getting the 4 yards.

Vikes up 28 to 20, Car 32, run for -3 on 3rd down.

So many wasted opportunities

Those few coaching decisions affected the game more than what I previously mentioned? That's a stretch. But when I have time later, I'll gladly dig up even more missed opportunities and mistakes throughout the game that impacted the game far more than these few "what ifs?" You're assuming we convert in your examples, right? Well, I'll show you why that's not a given. However, as stated, cleaning up the untimely mistakes, not allowing an easy 14 points off turnovers, and not leaving points off the board matter more.

Last Edit: Oct 17, 2021 18:01:16 GMT -6 by Funkytown

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Week 6 - Vikings @ Panthers Support Group Oct 17, 2021 18:03:12 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by wivikesfan on Oct 17, 2021 18:03:12 GMT -6

Oct 17, 2021 18:00:33 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Oct 17, 2021 17:43:39 GMT -6 wivikesfan said:

2nd and 1 run 1st play of the 2nd quarter.

When up 12 to 10, 2nd down and 2, another 1 yard run.

4th and 4 on the Carolina 32, hardly a gimme, kicking and missing the fg instead of getting the 4 yards.

Vikes up 28 to 20, Car 32, run for -3 on 3rd down.

So many wasted opportunities

Those few coaching decisions affected the game more than what I previously mentioned? That's a stretch. But when I have time later, I'll gladly dig up even more missed opportunities and mistakes throughout the game that impacted the game far more than these few "what ifs?" You're assuming we convert in your examples, right? Well, I'll show you why that's not a given. However, as stated, cleaning up the untimely mistakes, not allowing an easy 14 points off turnovers, and not leaving points off the board matter more.

OK, but saying 'don't fumble there' isn't exactly a revelation. Realizing your coaching direction consistently hamstrings your team is something that requires self reflection Zim isn't capable of, but long term has a bigger impact since you can directly affect it more than saying 'don't get a penalty here, and don't fumble there'. That's not even coaching.

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Week 6 - Vikings @ Panthers Support Group Oct 17, 2021 18:04:19 GMT -6

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Post by suncoastvike on Oct 17, 2021 18:04:19 GMT -6

Oct 17, 2021 17:23:58 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Oct 17, 2021 16:19:14 GMT -6 HunterMorrow said:

Zimmerball is coaching like sh*t IN THE CONTEXT OF THE ENTIRE GAME, with the understanding that Zimmer is the head coach of the entire team, he coached like sh*t. Failing to close out halves and still having awful special teams, which is everybody's fault but the head coaches' fault. Its every dumb characteristic of him that makes what should be 20 point victories into final possessions and field goal attempts and overtime cheek clenchers.

A 10 point lead that should be a 20 point lead turning into a cheek clencher? That's like every other game with Zimmer. That's what the Cardinals game was.

This was a poorly-coached game? How so? Can you provide some examples? I named some issues with missed opportunities in the red zone settling for field goals, failed two-point conversions, allowing 14 points off turnovers, missed field goals, penalties, etc. that resulted in the game being closer than it should have been.

So care to name some coaching decisions today that affected the game more than what I previously mentioned? Going to tell me how we ran too much on first and second down when Vilma literally complained about passing too much on first and second, and failing, setting up 3rd and longs? Because he did that three or four drives in a row. But I bet we ran too much on early downs for some of you here. And I bet with nearly 600 yards against one of the better defenses in the NFL was playing too conservatively. Love to hear that argument, too.

Look, if you guys are still mad about last week, or something from last year, or maybe 2018... just say that. But apparently we watched different games today, because I didn't see a poorly-coached game at all. I saw some missed opportunities and untimely mistakes, but a poorly-coached, conservative game? Not at all.

Awful special teams? Another false narrative. Keep 'em coming!

Not to start an argument but are well coached teams always making these kind of mistakes?
Going for two point conversions and getting neither could have put the nail in them at the end if they just kicked both. The score did say it was right to go both times. Not being able to convert either or not taking more advantage of redzone opportunities is execution. Running wide when you are trying to set up the potential game sealing FG when they know you are running was a mistake in my mind. You run it up the middle for minimal or even no gain. Stringing it outside for a 5 yard loss. Dumb. Bad play call but not coaching? You are looking for in game decisions but preparation is part of it. We didn't look like a team that was prepared for scoring at the goal line on either 2 pt try. I think many of us want this kind of aggressiveness. We also want better execution once they commit to the gamble.

If being a Viking fan was easy ~ everyone would do it.

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Week 6 - Vikings @ Panthers Support Group Oct 17, 2021 18:05:42 GMT -6

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Post by Funkytown on Oct 17, 2021 18:05:42 GMT -6

Oct 17, 2021 18:00:14 GMT -6 wivikesfan said:

Oct 17, 2021 17:51:21 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

It's very relevant if you're going to accuse him of meddling into the offense to the point of calling plays, especially in crucial moments.

One week, he's not involved enough. The next, he's calling too many conservative plays. lol.

He's the head coach. Credited when it goes well, blamed when it doesn't. Whether he calls all plays or none. He dictates the tone and direction. Zimmerball is a thing.

That's fair, but it wasn't a thing today. That's the point.

There were a couple fluky plays that allowed the Panthers to get back into it. No more, no less.

The game plan wasn't ultra-conservative. 571 yards and 34 points against one of the better defenses in the NFL?

Missed opportunities because of mistakes? Yes. Conservative game plan? No.

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Week 6 - Vikings @ Panthers Support Group Oct 17, 2021 18:07:39 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by wivikesfan on Oct 17, 2021 18:07:39 GMT -6

Oct 17, 2021 18:05:42 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Oct 17, 2021 18:00:14 GMT -6 wivikesfan said:

He's the head coach. Credited when it goes well, blamed when it doesn't. Whether he calls all plays or none. He dictates the tone and direction. Zimmerball is a thing.

That's fair, but it wasn't a thing today. That's the point.

There were a couple fluky plays that allowed the Panthers to get back into it. No more, no less.

The game plan wasn't ultra-conservative. 571 yards and 34 points against one of the better defenses in the NFL?

Missed opportunities because of mistakes? Yes. Conservative game plan? No.

Oh it was a thing. We just discussed several cowardly or misinformed calls. Yes, overall good game. But still too many bad conservative decisions. But Zim has been here for a long time. This isn't a new topic. This is his brand.

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Week 6 - Vikings @ Panthers Support Group Oct 17, 2021 18:07:41 GMT -6

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Post by Funkytown on Oct 17, 2021 18:07:41 GMT -6

Oct 17, 2021 18:03:12 GMT -6 wivikesfan said:

OK, but saying 'don't fumble there' isn't exactly a revelation. Realizing your coaching direction consistently hamstrings your team is something that requires self reflection Zim isn't capable of, but long term has a bigger impact since you can directly affect it more than saying 'don't get a penalty here, and don't fumble there'. That's not even coaching.

Really? Because every time a player commits a penalty, turns the ball over, makes some stupid mistake, it's always, "Fire Zimmer! The guys aren't prepared!"

Is it coaching or not? Pick a lane. I always say that coaches coach and players play. Some like to play both sides.

But, regardless, today's game wasn't Zimmerball.

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Week 6 - Vikings @ Panthers Support Group Oct 17, 2021 18:10:29 GMT -6 via mobile Funkytown likes this

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Post by wivikesfan on Oct 17, 2021 18:10:29 GMT -6

Oct 17, 2021 18:07:41 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Oct 17, 2021 18:03:12 GMT -6 wivikesfan said:

OK, but saying 'don't fumble there' isn't exactly a revelation. Realizing your coaching direction consistently hamstrings your team is something that requires self reflection Zim isn't capable of, but long term has a bigger impact since you can directly affect it more than saying 'don't get a penalty here, and don't fumble there'. That's not even coaching.

Really? Because every time a player commits a penalty, turns the ball over, makes some stupid mistake, it's always, "Fire Zimmer! The guys aren't prepared!"

Is it coaching or not? Pick a lane. I always say that coaches coach and players play. Some like to play both sides.

But, regardless, today's game wasn't Zimmerball.

I don't speak for others or their gripes. No, I don't think, in general, that penalties or turnovers are on the head coach. They shouldn't be, it should be a given at this level that players know these things. Coaching is for scheme and in game decisions.

Also, what's your point? We were a little less conservative today than usual, while still making several cowardly calls? Is it.your assertion that he turned a corner after 8 years?

Last Edit: Oct 17, 2021 18:12:09 GMT -6 by wivikesfan

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Week 6 - Vikings @ Panthers Support Group Oct 17, 2021 18:11:55 GMT -6

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Post by Funkytown on Oct 17, 2021 18:11:55 GMT -6

Oct 17, 2021 18:07:39 GMT -6 wivikesfan said:

Oh it was a thing. We just discussed several cowardly or misinformed calls. Yes, overall good game. But still too many bad conservative decisions. But Zim has been here for a long time. This isn't a new topic. This is his brand.

So, what? Pass every down? You named four whole plays in an OT game. If it was this huge issue, there would be far more examples. Again, I'm talking about today. I don't much care to talk about his brand.

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Week 6 - Vikings @ Panthers Support Group Oct 17, 2021 18:15:03 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by wivikesfan on Oct 17, 2021 18:15:03 GMT -6

Oct 17, 2021 18:11:55 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Oct 17, 2021 18:07:39 GMT -6 wivikesfan said:

Oh it was a thing. We just discussed several cowardly or misinformed calls. Yes, overall good game. But still too many bad conservative decisions. But Zim has been here for a long time. This isn't a new topic. This is his brand.

So, what? Pass every down? You named four whole plays in an OT game. If it was this huge issue, there would be far more examples. Again, I'm talking about today. I don't much care to talk about his brand.

Well, I guess I'd argue who cares about 1 game when you have years of info to look at. When you look at aggressive vs conservative coaches, it's like clockwork that over a year that Zim will be one of the most conservative. And it costs this team wins. If you concede the point and want to celebrate the anomaly, you do you. I'm glad they won. It was a fun win! No problems from me in enjoying a win.