2021 Kirk - The moment of truth | Purple Pain Forums

pinfante79
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2021 Kirk - The moment of truth Dec 20, 2021 14:59:11 GMT -6 via Tapatalk FSUVike likes this

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Post by pinfante79 on Dec 20, 2021 14:59:11 GMT -6

Dec 20, 2021 12:36:07 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

Dec 19, 2021 17:57:30 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

We just disagree. Is what it is. I didn't block you. It's fine to disagree. I'll unblock the blocked once things settle after the season and rational thinking returns. A lot of fans are just full tilt angry now and I get it. I'm just not gonna waste my time on them nor respect their opinion while they operate out of frustration. Which believe me I get. I'm frustrated too. But. Not giving up on this offense until the next coach can't make it work. When someone implies we get rid of Kirk what I hear is get rid of Kirk, Dalvin, and Thielen. Because if you draft a QB,odds are against it working but even if it does your gonna waste the last 1-2 years of these guys prime while he develops. Let alone the 2022 QB class is not that good.

Fairly simple in my book.🤷‍♂️

You keep throwing around the word 'rational'. I don't think that word means what you think it does.

'Rational' is multiple posters patiently explaining time and again, with stats and analysis, that Kirk has yet to get the job done and he's costing too much to ever put the right team around him in Minnesota to get it done in the future.

'Irrational' is your response. Which is basically sticking your fingers in your ears and saying Nuh-uh to every rational point raised and then accusing us of not being rational.

If you take the salary aspect off the table I'm all for Kirk. He's as capable of taking a Team to the Owl as Goff, or Jimmy G. For me, it's less the Player and more the Contract. And no rational conversation can exclude that part of it.

Means exactly what I think...

And I agree, that's why I'm for extending and lowering the cap number. That option #1 for me. (Unless trading for Russell Wilson is a possibility then that's option #1)

Option 2 is let him play it out next year, see what the new coach can do, trade out of round 1 this year for capital next year to move up and get the guy...

I don't wanna steal from the future for a shot at a QB in the 2022 draft.

It's like I'd rather save the money and go buy a car cash rather than finance it and pay for it years forward especially if you find out the car kinda sucks...

Very rational... See...

Please don't follow me on Twitter @pi_Unmasked

FSUVike
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2021 Kirk - The moment of truth Dec 20, 2021 15:34:11 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by FSUVike on Dec 20, 2021 15:34:11 GMT -6

Dec 20, 2021 14:59:11 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Dec 20, 2021 12:36:07 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

You keep throwing around the word 'rational'. I don't think that word means what you think it does.

'Rational' is multiple posters patiently explaining time and again, with stats and analysis, that Kirk has yet to get the job done and he's costing too much to ever put the right team around him in Minnesota to get it done in the future.

'Irrational' is your response. Which is basically sticking your fingers in your ears and saying Nuh-uh to every rational point raised and then accusing us of not being rational.

If you take the salary aspect off the table I'm all for Kirk. He's as capable of taking a Team to the Owl as Goff, or Jimmy G. For me, it's less the Player and more the Contract. And no rational conversation can exclude that part of it.

Means exactly what I think...

And I agree, that's why I'm for extending and lowering the cap number. That option #1 for me. (Unless trading for Russell Wilson is a possibility then that's option #1)

Option 2 is let him play it out next year, see what the new coach can do, trade out of round 1 this year for capital next year to move up and get the guy...

I don't wanna steal from the future for a shot at a QB in the 2022 draft.

It's like I'd rather save the money and go buy a car cash rather than finance it and pay for it years forward especially if you find out the car kinda sucks...

Very rational... See...

For Option 1 what would the number be? For me, that's the most important question if I'm running the Team.

Or let's look at this a different way. Derek Carr can put up the stats but not the wins too. His current 2022 cap hit is just shy of 20 million.

Conversely, Cousins is at 45. He's going to want $40m per, likely guaranteed.

Now, if the Raiders moved on from Carr he'd definitely command more than 20. But let's say you get him for 25m per. That difference in savings for guys that need a complete Team around them goes a long way to maybe inking 1 Tier 1 Free Agent.

Imagine plugging RDE or CB1 for the next 4 years. Or extending Cousins at 40m per and continously bargain shopping for more Breelands & Weatherlys & Woods.

I personally 100% believe Option #2 is happening. Vikings fans are too close to see the bigger picture, which is no GM will trade for Kirk once his Agent tells them he wants 40m/yr.

And the new GM isn't extending him. So he plays out the string next year and hits FA again. Where I think he gets a rude awakening.

Meanwhile, the new Regime punts on this Draft Class and targets 2023 to Draft a QB while starting to overhaul the awful Defense.

I think your Option #2 is by far the most likely scenario and also the one I'm pulling for.

Last Edit: Dec 20, 2021 15:39:20 GMT -6 by FSUVike

pinfante79
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2021 Kirk - The moment of truth Dec 20, 2021 15:57:17 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Dec 20, 2021 15:57:17 GMT -6

Dec 20, 2021 15:34:11 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

Dec 20, 2021 14:59:11 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Means exactly what I think...

And I agree, that's why I'm for extending and lowering the cap number. That option #1 for me. (Unless trading for Russell Wilson is a possibility then that's option #1)

Option 2 is let him play it out next year, see what the new coach can do, trade out of round 1 this year for capital next year to move up and get the guy...

I don't wanna steal from the future for a shot at a QB in the 2022 draft.

It's like I'd rather save the money and go buy a car cash rather than finance it and pay for it years forward especially if you find out the car kinda sucks...

Very rational... See...

For Option 1 what would the number be? For me, that's the most important question if I'm running the Team.

Or let's look at this a different way. Derek Carr can put up the stats but not the wins too. His current 2022 cap hit is just shy of 20 million.

Conversely, Cousins is at 45. He's going to want $40m per, likely guaranteed.

Now, if the Raiders moved on from Carr he'd definitely command more than 20. But let's say you get him for 25m per. That difference in savings for guys that need a complete Team around them goes a long way to maybe inking 1 Tier 1 Free Agent.

Imagine plugging RDE or CB1 for the next 4 years. Or extending Cousins at 40m per and continously bargain shopping for more Breelands & Weatherlys & Woods.

I personally 100% believe Option #2 is happening. Vikings fans are too close to see the bigger picture, which is no GM will trade for Kirk once his Agent tells them he wants 40m/yr.

And the new GM isn't extending him. So he plays out the string next year and hits FA again. Where I think he gets a rude awakening.

Meanwhile, the new Regime punts on this Draft Class and targets 2023 to Draft a QB while starting to overhaul the awful Defense.

I think your Option #2 is by far the most likely scenario and also the one I'm pulling for.

Well we don't know how high the cap goes next year. And I actually like Derek Carr and would be ok with him here in low 20s but Kirk is a better player so assuming the cap goes up i guess I'd be ok with him around 30m. But what's a few million either way among friends 😂. I guess it really depends on the total cap number so it's tough to say. If you pay him like the 10th highest QB I'd say that's fair cause he's def a top 10 QB. But if you can trade Kirk and sign Carr for cheap I'd actually be on board, it isn't like the Raiders put this kind of talent around him ever. I mean with Dalvin, Jefferson, Theilen, and Irv, Carr would be fine... Especially in the low 20s per year.

I just don't want to put a rookie QB on a credit card and gamble with the future...

Please don't follow me on Twitter @pi_Unmasked

Danchat Content Creator Posts: 19,037 Likes: 16,630 Member is Online	2021 Kirk - The moment of truth Dec 20, 2021 16:01:44 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Danchat on Dec 20, 2021 16:01:44 GMT -6 Dec 20, 2021 15:57:17 GMT -6 pinfante79 said: Well we don't know how high the cap goes next year. That's already been announced at $208.2M, and our current 2022 salary is around $215-218M right now.

pinfante79
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2021 Kirk - The moment of truth Dec 20, 2021 16:06:29 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Dec 20, 2021 16:06:29 GMT -6

Dec 20, 2021 16:01:44 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Dec 20, 2021 15:57:17 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Well we don't know how high the cap goes next year.

That's already been announced at $208.2M, and our current 2022 salary is around $215-218M right now.

There is always money in the banana stand...

We were supposed to be in cap hell this past season...

Kirk is going to get restructured. It's probably going to happen. Danielle Hunter will be restructured or traded. And honestly if we trade him we're going to get a solid haul. Kendricks is a candidate to be restructured as well. The numbers we see now are not going to be with the numbers end up.

Just by playing around with Kirk and Danielle's contracts you can make a solid amount of cap room. They combine for over 70 million of the cap. The end number is going to be nowhere near that.

And the worst case scenario means we get what everybody wants by 2023 a ton of cap room, an empty quarterback position to fill, and a reset...

Please don't follow me on Twitter @pi_Unmasked

pinfante79
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2021 Kirk - The moment of truth Dec 20, 2021 16:12:49 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Dec 20, 2021 16:12:49 GMT -6

When you eventually ditch Kirk and draft a rookie quarterback you then just have a different set of problems cuz odds are you're not drafting the next Hall of famer you're more along the lines of ending up in this situation right here.... enjoy... This is the future of KFAN and skor north

And it's funny the more I think about it go ahead trade Kirk bring me Derek Carr, I think he's good enough to win with all this talent around him.... Kirk is a little better than Derek Carr but if you're going to get a return on Kirk plus a quarterback that's a little cheaper that's almost as good... I'm fine with that...

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Reignman
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2021 Kirk - The moment of truth Dec 20, 2021 17:42:33 GMT -6

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Post by Reignman on Dec 20, 2021 17:42:33 GMT -6

Dec 20, 2021 12:36:07 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

If you take the salary aspect off the table I'm all for Kirk. He's as capable of taking a Team to the Owl as Goff, or Jimmy G. For me, it's less the Player and more the Contract. And no rational conversation can exclude that part of it.

Oh wow, now there's a call back. The Superb Owl lol. But no I don't think the contract is the only thing holding Kirk back from winning a Superb Owl. For whatever reason he's tightly wound and it shows in every big stage game. Every time they show his face he looks like he's in pain. And the ball sails in those games, when he isn't a checkdown machine.

Everyone keeps mentioning the GW drives, but am I the only one who remembers all the games where he disappeared after the opening drive and then didn't show up again until the GW drive? How many times do I gotta say it? You don't need game winning drives if you don't disappear for 2 quarters every game, like Kirk has all year. That's what I remember. It was a running joke in every game thread ... there's our opening drive TD, now the offense will disappear until the 4th quarter ... and then it did. It was more about Kubiak, but Kirk deserves part of the blame too.

Cousins is definitely an enigma. I can't figure out how he can consistently get to 300 yards and 2 TD's but still have an overwhelming gravitational pull toward mediocrity. He's a master at generating empty stats. His efficiency at it is nothing short of remarkable.

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

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2021 Kirk - The moment of truth Dec 20, 2021 17:56:08 GMT -6

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Post by Reignman on Dec 20, 2021 17:56:08 GMT -6

Dec 20, 2021 16:12:49 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

When you eventually ditch Kirk and draft a rookie quarterback you then just have a different set of problems cuz odds are you're not drafting the next Hall of famer you're more along the lines of ending up in this situation right here.... enjoy...

How many times do I gotta explain this lol? We're perfectly aware that things could end up worse, but we don't care. We'll take the small odds over what we know for sure. Cousins is 100% not going to lead us to a Lombardi, so even if a change means our shot at a Super Bowl is 0.1% that's still better than 0%. It's really not difficult to understand. It's breathtaking just how content some of you are with mediocrity. Your fear of ending up like Detroit has you completely paralyzed. I'll take 20 seasons of 5-12 to taste 1 Lombardi. Provided we start with the Lombardi because some of us aren't getting any younger xD.

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

PurpleFloyd
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2021 Kirk - The moment of truth Dec 20, 2021 20:22:21 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Dec 20, 2021 20:22:21 GMT -6

Dec 20, 2021 17:56:08 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Dec 20, 2021 16:12:49 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

When you eventually ditch Kirk and draft a rookie quarterback you then just have a different set of problems cuz odds are you're not drafting the next Hall of famer you're more along the lines of ending up in this situation right here.... enjoy...

How many times do I gotta explain this lol? We're perfectly aware that things could end up worse, but we don't care. We'll take the small odds over what we know for sure. Cousins is 100% not going to lead us to a Lombardi, so even if a change means our shot at a Super Bowl is 0.1% that's still better than 0%. It's really not difficult to understand. It's breathtaking just how content some of you are with mediocrity. Your fear of ending up like Detroit has you completely paralyzed. I'll take 20 seasons of 5-12 to taste 1 Lombardi. Provided we start with the Lombardi because some of us aren't getting any younger xD.

I don’t think anyone is content. It’s more of a “ find someone better first before you send him away” thing. I doubt anyone is saying they wouldn’t take an upgrade if the team found one but rather first ensure you don’t go backwards.

Keeping him until that happens isn’t settling for anything

Oracle Bone Diviner Moderator Posts: 14,706 Likes: 10,608 Fan Since: last century	2021 Kirk - The moment of truth Dec 20, 2021 22:28:40 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Oracle Bone Diviner on Dec 20, 2021 22:28:40 GMT -6 Put me down for more Kirk Zimmer!
	There's a ringing in my ear and I think it's the Call of the Wild itinerant, noun; a person who works and wanders.

suncoastvike Moderator Some say I'm too laid back. Really, I'm just too lazy to argue with them. Posts: 10,643 Likes: 7,202	2021 Kirk - The moment of truth Dec 20, 2021 22:39:18 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by suncoastvike on Dec 20, 2021 22:39:18 GMT -6 Dec 20, 2021 22:28:40 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner said: Put me down for more Kirk Zimmer! Put down?? Like an old dog?
	If being a Viking fan was easy ~ everyone would do it.

pinfante79
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2021 Kirk - The moment of truth Dec 20, 2021 22:41:39 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Dec 20, 2021 22:41:39 GMT -6

You know the hell with this 17 game season... They should have shortened the season... 14 games would have been perfect. I've had enough, No playoffs, No problem, Just get this bullsh*t off my to do list...

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2021 Kirk - The moment of truth Dec 20, 2021 22:50:40 GMT -6

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Post by Oracle Bone Diviner on Dec 20, 2021 22:50:40 GMT -6

Dec 20, 2021 22:41:39 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

You know the hell with this 17 game season... They should have shortened the season... 14 games would have been perfect.

That would have made a few people look slightly better. *whistle*

There's a ringing in my ear and I think it's the Call of the Wild

itinerant, noun; a person who works and wanders.

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,661 Likes: 31,587 Fan Since: 1998	2021 Kirk - The moment of truth Dec 20, 2021 23:19:40 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Dec 20, 2021 23:19:40 GMT -6 Thielen? We miss you!

Reignman Purple Pain Lap Dog Posts: 44,738 Likes: 30,676 Fan Since: 1984	2021 Kirk - The moment of truth Dec 20, 2021 23:40:27 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Reignman on Dec 20, 2021 23:40:27 GMT -6 Don't worry, he'll throw for 350 against the Rams with 3 tuddy's in our 38-31 loss and the MVP talk will be back.
	Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said: if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.