Most Expendable Unvaccinated Player?

Jor-El
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Most Expendable Unvaccinated Player? Aug 18, 2021 13:08:44 GMT -6 suncoastvike likes this

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Post by Jor-El on Aug 18, 2021 13:08:44 GMT -6

Aug 18, 2021 11:32:37 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Aug 18, 2021 9:26:53 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

This opinion may be unpopular, but there is a fair argument to be made about the threats of Cousins, Thielen, and Smith to retire:
Go ahead.

When the next rebuild of this team actually starts, in 2022 or 2023, 2 of those (Cousins and Smith) will not be here, and maybe not Thielen either. If they want to retire immediately, yes the 2021 season is probably flushed. (Spoiler alert: it's not going to be that good anyway.) But those 3 will eat over $60M of cap space next season, so 2022 will be a bad season regardless. OTOH, getting them off the books would make this team far more attractive to GM/Coach candidates. Something to think about.

I get what your saying and never really thought of this and it actually intrigues me, but I disagree that 2021 is worth being flushed. I see talent that could compete with anyone possibly. Not to mention I believe Thielen and Smith at the very least still have a few great seasons in them.

Of course I am also taking into account that all 3 of these are unwilling to make the sacrifice of receiving Covid vaccinations, when they know that their action is creating risk that the team will give them a roster spot but lose their services. What else won't they do for the team? Also, I have no doubt this public discussion of their attitudes is not thrilling all their teammates.

Thielen and Smith: I hate to bet against Adam and always figured he could play into his mid-30s, at least as a possession WR. But Smith looked like a lesser player in 2020 and he's 32 and not going to get faster now. His instincts can keep him "good" but I doubt he'll have any more "great" seasons.

Cousins is the big issue here, of course. The Vikings are trapped by the contract extension Spielman gave him running through 2022, and the only legitimate scheme anyone has come up with to get out of that is to talk some other team into taking on his guaranteed salary. (Good luck there!!) So, here is another option: he retires voluntarily.

I have never been in the "Cousins is the source of all problems" camp, but his actions are pushing me there very quickly. I think the Vikings should tell him vaccination is mandatory - call his bluff. BTW, I think he would back away and get the shot, not retire - even though I am ready for him to leave.

andhesloose28
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Most Expendable Unvaccinated Player? Aug 18, 2021 13:42:10 GMT -6

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Post by andhesloose28 on Aug 18, 2021 13:42:10 GMT -6

Well thats a whole other subject. YES getting vaccinated makes it better for your football team but we are talking about something that is way bigger than football so I respect everyone's decision. I dont see any of them retiring, because they would've forced or made it mandatory by now, I dont see the NFL making a decision like that during the season it would be total chaos. For Cousins we really arent trapped, hes locked in for this year and next where we should have competitive rosters and Cousins being our best option. Unless Mond somehow gets starting time this year from a Kirk injury and looks like Mahomes, id hardly say we are trapped, he gives us the best chance to win.

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Most Expendable Unvaccinated Player? Sept 5, 2021 19:10:54 GMT -6 via mobile suncoastvike likes this

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Post by Funkytown on Sept 5, 2021 19:10:54 GMT -6

For the record, these were all confirmed today:

On Sunday, we learned that that 12 of the 53 players on Minnesota’s active roster still have not received a full dose of the COVID-19 vaccine, according to the Star Tribune. The Star Tribune also revealed that five members of this group of 12 consists of Kirk Cousins, Dalvin Cook, Adam Thielen, Harrison Smith, and Dalvin Tomlinson, who are all expected to be starters for the Vikings this season.

Last Edit: Sept 5, 2021 19:11:23 GMT -6 by Funkytown

Raptorman
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Most Expendable Unvaccinated Player? Sept 5, 2021 21:46:42 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Sept 5, 2021 21:46:42 GMT -6

Aug 18, 2021 13:08:44 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

Aug 18, 2021 11:32:37 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

I get what your saying and never really thought of this and it actually intrigues me, but I disagree that 2021 is worth being flushed. I see talent that could compete with anyone possibly. Not to mention I believe Thielen and Smith at the very least still have a few great seasons in them.

Of course I am also taking into account that all 3 of these are unwilling to make the sacrifice of receiving Covid vaccinations, when they know that their action is creating risk that the team will give them a roster spot but lose their services. What else won't they do for the team? Also, I have no doubt this public discussion of their attitudes is not thrilling all their teammates.

Thielen and Smith: I hate to bet against Adam and always figured he could play into his mid-30s, at least as a possession WR. But Smith looked like a lesser player in 2020 and he's 32 and not going to get faster now. His instincts can keep him "good" but I doubt he'll have any more "great" seasons.

Cousins is the big issue here, of course. The Vikings are trapped by the contract extension Spielman gave him running through 2022, and the only legitimate scheme anyone has come up with to get out of that is to talk some other team into taking on his guaranteed salary. (Good luck there!!) So, here is another option: he retires voluntarily.

I have never been in the "Cousins is the source of all problems" camp, but his actions are pushing me there very quickly. I think the Vikings should tell him vaccination is mandatory - call his bluff. BTW, I think he would back away and get the shot, not retire - even though I am ready for him to leave.

Exactly what risk are they creating?

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

suncoastvike
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Most Expendable Unvaccinated Player? Sept 6, 2021 5:45:07 GMT -6 rigby likes this

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Post by suncoastvike on Sept 6, 2021 5:45:07 GMT -6

Sept 5, 2021 21:46:42 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Aug 18, 2021 13:08:44 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

Of course I am also taking into account that all 3 of these are unwilling to make the sacrifice of receiving Covid vaccinations, when they know that their action is creating risk that the team will give them a roster spot but lose their services. What else won't they do for the team? Also, I have no doubt this public discussion of their attitudes is not thrilling all their teammates.

Thielen and Smith: I hate to bet against Adam and always figured he could play into his mid-30s, at least as a possession WR. But Smith looked like a lesser player in 2020 and he's 32 and not going to get faster now. His instincts can keep him "good" but I doubt he'll have any more "great" seasons.

Cousins is the big issue here, of course. The Vikings are trapped by the contract extension Spielman gave him running through 2022, and the only legitimate scheme anyone has come up with to get out of that is to talk some other team into taking on his guaranteed salary. (Good luck there!!) So, here is another option: he retires voluntarily.

I have never been in the "Cousins is the source of all problems" camp, but his actions are pushing me there very quickly. I think the Vikings should tell him vaccination is mandatory - call his bluff. BTW, I think he would back away and get the shot, not retire - even though I am ready for him to leave.

Exactly what risk are they creating?

That they will miss time because of the NFL covid policy. The sentence and paragraph really the entire post seemed to state his point there. You just highlight a portion of one sentence for purpose of what really?? They are putting their service to the team at risk get it? They could potentially cost us games. If you are just looking for reasons to anti-vax there's a very long OT covid thread on that. I know you are aware of it. If you are looking to claim that the NFL policy is wrong or unfair guess what they are the employer. They can make their policy's how they wish and if employees don't like it the can work elsewhere. Just like how my employer operates. Masks mandated and vaccines encouraged. You don't like the masks find a new job. I'm to the point with Kirk our leader I wish he would. Not just for this stance either. He misses some time over this policy knowing he is so important to our success I'd hope that they finally put their trust in someone else next year.

If being a Viking fan was easy ~ everyone would do it.

suncoastvike
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Most Expendable Unvaccinated Player? Sept 6, 2021 6:01:38 GMT -6

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Post by suncoastvike on Sept 6, 2021 6:01:38 GMT -6

The Bucs are defending champions and 100% vaccinated. We have 12 unvaccinated and a non-playoff team. Maybe leadership is a problem.
Picking the most expendable unvaccinated players is not even a question for them. Any wonder why they were successful?

If being a Viking fan was easy ~ everyone would do it.

Oracle Bone Diviner Moderator Posts: 14,706 Likes: 10,608 Fan Since: last century	Most Expendable Unvaccinated Player? Sept 6, 2021 6:34:22 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Oracle Bone Diviner on Sept 6, 2021 6:34:22 GMT -6 All of em are expendable. A bunch of healthy athlete crybabies.
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vikingpitbull
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Most Expendable Unvaccinated Player? Sept 6, 2021 7:20:48 GMT -6 via mobile Oracle Bone Diviner, suncoastvike, and 1 more like this

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Post by vikingpitbull on Sept 6, 2021 7:20:48 GMT -6

I'll just add this. There should be no more or less concern among starters or 3rd string that are unvax'd. A game week routine exposes all the same.

Not only do you have position groups, but also many other scenarios of each unit being close to spill over. You have Weight lifting rehab eating film study 5 days of situational practice game planing and walk throughs including practice squad players. They can alleviate some close contact but not all. Some expose certain groups some expose multiple.

How pissed will fans be when unvax'd takes out half the starters from both sides of the ball. Vax'd can also but to a lesser degree. I think the NFL is making poor judgment for all right now to be honest.

Raptorman
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Most Expendable Unvaccinated Player? Sept 6, 2021 11:25:48 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Sept 6, 2021 11:25:48 GMT -6

Sept 6, 2021 5:45:07 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Sept 5, 2021 21:46:42 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Exactly what risk are they creating?

That they will miss time because of the NFL covid policy. The sentence and paragraph really the entire post seemed to state his point there. You just highlight a portion of one sentence for purpose of what really?? They are putting their service to the team at risk get it? They could potentially cost us games. If you are just looking for reasons to anti-vax there's a very long OT covid thread on that. I know you are aware of it. If you are looking to claim that the NFL policy is wrong or unfair guess what they are the employer. They can make their policy's how they wish and if employees don't like it the can work elsewhere. Just like how my employer operates. Masks mandated and vaccines encouraged. You don't like the masks find a new job. I'm to the point with Kirk our leader I wish he would. Not just for this stance either. He misses some time over this policy knowing he is so important to our success I'd hope that they finally put their trust in someone else next year.

Sorry, there isn't a player on the team that can't get covid. Not one. Vaccination doesn't prevent them from getting it. Period. If a player gets it, they will miss time. Period. If a vaccinated player get it and it takes 10 days or 2 weeks for two negative tests, then they will be gone for that time period.

So I ask again, what risk are unvaccinated players creating?

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

suncoastvike
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Most Expendable Unvaccinated Player? Sept 6, 2021 11:31:47 GMT -6

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Post by suncoastvike on Sept 6, 2021 11:31:47 GMT -6

Sept 6, 2021 11:25:48 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Sept 6, 2021 5:45:07 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

That they will miss time because of the NFL covid policy. The sentence and paragraph really the entire post seemed to state his point there. You just highlight a portion of one sentence for purpose of what really?? They are putting their service to the team at risk get it? They could potentially cost us games. If you are just looking for reasons to anti-vax there's a very long OT covid thread on that. I know you are aware of it. If you are looking to claim that the NFL policy is wrong or unfair guess what they are the employer. They can make their policy's how they wish and if employees don't like it the can work elsewhere. Just like how my employer operates. Masks mandated and vaccines encouraged. You don't like the masks find a new job. I'm to the point with Kirk our leader I wish he would. Not just for this stance either. He misses some time over this policy knowing he is so important to our success I'd hope that they finally put their trust in someone else next year.

Sorry, there isn't a player on the team that can't get covid. Not one. Vaccination doesn't prevent them from getting it. Period. If a player gets it, they will miss time. Period. If a vaccinated player get it and it takes 10 days or 2 weeks for two negative tests, then they will be gone for that time period.

So I ask again, what risk are unvaccinated players creating?

Losing more time from the team if positive. There is a different set of rules for vaccinated and unvaccinated players. We are not arguing if the rules of the NFL are wrong. We are stating within these rules our guys are putting our season at risk. All team have been given the same rules.

If being a Viking fan was easy ~ everyone would do it.

Raptorman
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Most Expendable Unvaccinated Player? Sept 6, 2021 13:38:43 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Sept 6, 2021 13:38:43 GMT -6

Yup. Putting the season at risk because of the rules. Which are based on science and fear. Two players test positive on the same day. Go through the protocol. But player A, cost his team.

Player A                         Player B
Unvaccinated                     Vaccinated

                  Tuesday 1
Test Positive                   Test positive
                  Wednesday 2
Test Positive                   Test Positive
                  Thursday 3
Test negative                   Tests positive
                   Friday 4
Test negative                   Test positive
                  Saturday 5   
Test negative                   Test positive
                  Sunday 6
Test negative                   Test Negative
                  Monday 7
Test negative                   Test negative Returns
                  Tuesday 8
Test negative                   Test negative
                 Wednesday 9
Test negative                   Test negative
                 Thursday 10  
Test negative                   Test negative
                  Friday 11
Test Negative returns           Test negative.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

suncoastvike
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Most Expendable Unvaccinated Player? Sept 6, 2021 13:52:51 GMT -6 vikingpitbull likes this

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Post by suncoastvike on Sept 6, 2021 13:52:51 GMT -6

Sept 6, 2021 13:38:43 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Yup. Putting the season at risk because of the rules. Which are based on science and fear. Two players test positive on the same day. Go through the protocol. But player A, cost his team.

Player A                         Player B
Unvaccinated                     Vaccinated

                  Tuesday 1
Test Positive                   Test positive
                  Wednesday 2
Test Positive                   Test Positive
                  Thursday 3
Test negative                   Tests positive
                   Friday 4
Test negative                   Test positive
                  Saturday 5   
Test negative                   Test positive
                  Sunday 6
Test negative                   Test Negative
                  Monday 7
Test negative                   Test negative Returns
                  Tuesday 8
Test negative                   Test negative
                 Wednesday 9
Test negative                   Test negative
                 Thursday 10  
Test negative                   Test negative
                  Friday 11
Test Negative returns           Test negative.

So the vaccinated player returning earlier makes me wrong how? Even in this absolutely hypothetical chart. Which conveniently started on a Tues. Vaccinated could potentially not miss a game if 2 negative days in a row before the game. While unvaccinated could miss two weeks if say Thursday started the clock even by this chart.

If being a Viking fan was easy ~ everyone would do it.

vikingpitbull
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Most Expendable Unvaccinated Player? Sept 6, 2021 14:09:29 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on Sept 6, 2021 14:09:29 GMT -6

Sept 6, 2021 13:52:51 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Sept 6, 2021 13:38:43 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Yup. Putting the season at risk because of the rules. Which are based on science and fear. Two players test positive on the same day. Go through the protocol. But player A, cost his team.

Player A                         Player B
Unvaccinated                     Vaccinated

                  Tuesday 1
Test Positive                   Test positive
                  Wednesday 2
Test Positive                   Test Positive
                  Thursday 3
Test negative                   Tests positive
                   Friday 4
Test negative                   Test positive
                  Saturday 5   
Test negative                   Test positive
                  Sunday 6
Test negative                   Test Negative
                  Monday 7
Test negative                   Test negative Returns
                  Tuesday 8
Test negative                   Test negative
                 Wednesday 9
Test negative                   Test negative
                 Thursday 10  
Test negative                   Test negative
                  Friday 11
Test Negative returns           Test negative.

So the vaccinated player returning earlier makes me wrong how? Even in this absolutely hypothetical chart. Which conveniently started on a Tues. Vaccinated could potentially not miss a game if 2 negative days in a row before the game. While unvaccinated could miss two weeks if say Thursday started the clock even by this chart.

Not to mention short weeks when two games can be played or if a unvax'd player Test positive on game day.

suncoastvike
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Most Expendable Unvaccinated Player? Sept 6, 2021 14:27:50 GMT -6

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Post by suncoastvike on Sept 6, 2021 14:27:50 GMT -6

Sept 6, 2021 14:09:29 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Sept 6, 2021 13:52:51 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

So the vaccinated player returning earlier makes me wrong how? Even in this absolutely hypothetical chart. Which conveniently started on a Tues. Vaccinated could potentially not miss a game if 2 negative days in a row before the game. While unvaccinated could miss two weeks if say Thursday started the clock even by this chart.

Not to mention short weeks when two games can be played or if a unvax'd player Test positive on game day.

I'm waiting to be told this was an actual pre-season game chart. Still it's not like one size fits all.

If being a Viking fan was easy ~ everyone would do it.

Raptorman
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Most Expendable Unvaccinated Player? Sept 6, 2021 15:14:19 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Raptorman on Sept 6, 2021 15:14:19 GMT -6

Sept 6, 2021 13:52:51 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Sept 6, 2021 13:38:43 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Yup. Putting the season at risk because of the rules. Which are based on science and fear. Two players test positive on the same day. Go through the protocol. But player A, cost his team.

Player A                         Player B
Unvaccinated                     Vaccinated

                  Tuesday 1
Test Positive                   Test positive
                  Wednesday 2
Test Positive                   Test Positive
                  Thursday 3
Test negative                   Tests positive
                   Friday 4
Test negative                   Test positive
                  Saturday 5   
Test negative                   Test positive
                  Sunday 6
Test negative                   Test Negative
                  Monday 7
Test negative                   Test negative Returns
                  Tuesday 8
Test negative                   Test negative
                 Wednesday 9
Test negative                   Test negative
                 Thursday 10  
Test negative                   Test negative
                  Friday 11
Test Negative returns           Test negative.

So the vaccinated player returning earlier makes me wrong how? Even in this absolutely hypothetical chart. Which conveniently started on a Tues. Vaccinated could potentially not miss a game if 2 negative days in a row before the game. While unvaccinated could miss two weeks if say Thursday started the clock even by this chart.

It doesn't. But tell me, how does the unvaccinated player being held out longer make any sense? I know, it's the rules. And we aren't talking the rules here. Simply pointing out the fact that no matter how you swing it, the rules are based on two different criteria, one science, one fear. Start the clock on any day, it doesn't matter. You have no idea how long a vaccinated player will test positive, for that matter, you have no idea how long any player will test positive. It could be 2 days or 10. But only unvaccinated players can hurt the team.

And to your point. How did the unvaccinated player hurt his team?

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.