Pass Rush Concerns

Interesting perspective, but I have mixed feelings about your main proposal - starting Janarius Robinson. I think he's terrifically raw and has pass rush potential but not ability. I really do hope he develops beyond any of the other DE prospects, but he might have the farthest to go. I think throwing him into the starting lineup, whether or not it means we suffer vs the run, would be almost like declaring 2021 some form of rebuild, and I don't see that being declared by team management. Maybe Robinson will click quickly as Hunter did in 2015, but can't assume so.

I think it's actually going to be a "pass rush by committee" situation with a lot of participants at the DE spot opposite Hunter. As for his health and return to full strength immediatley? A lot of people are betting on it, you are not wrong to have your doubts.

I truly think this entire defense is far from ready to click. New starters in every unit, guys entirely new to this team in many cases.

Interesting, but I can't see Jones/Robinson inside. Even as situational pass rushers.

One of those two, IMO... hell maybe even Wonnum will be a primary backup for Hunter. Way too many question marks on Hunter's return not to have a guy assigned as his full time backup. Actually, I could see that being Wonnum. Who knows, maybe even Weatherly. But definitely one DE as the primary backup plan should Hunter be out again due to reinjury.

Then the remaining 3..... Weatherly/Jones/Robinson being the rotation at the other DE spot. As Jor-El said in a pass rush by committee.....

That's my attempt at going into Zimmy's mind......


I wouldn't do it that way, though.

1. I wouldn't start Weatherly.

2. I would start the best pure pass rusher opposite Hunter, regardless of the net negative effect on the run game...... to me, based on his insane athleticism (game speed wise), it's Robinson..... altho I do understand Jor-El 's point that he may not have the most pass rush ability. If that's the case.... it brings me to another question:


Who does everyone think is our best pure pass rusher at DE (not named Hunter)? No matter your answer (I'm sure answers will vary), I'd go with that guy as our starter opposite Hunter.

Interesting I am worried with DE, but I think WR is our weakest position top to bottom. We have 2 great ones, but Thielen starting to slow down. He had Tds but yards starting to fall off. After his hammy injury in 2019 he starting to lose speed at his age. After them 2 JJ WR is 👎🏾.

I also think Jones is further along as a pass rusher than Robinson. I think Robinson is strong but needs development as a rusher. He ready for the run watching tape. Jones more advanced on pass rush. Also I think safety is pretty thin behind the starters too. We need a vet pass rusher, but at least we have guys who can come in in waves with potential. WR and S I see almost no upside depth. I not super high on ISM.

If the talk about Hunter wanting to be the highest paid edge rusher in the league is true he really needs to show he is elite this season or his leverage will evaporate.

One thing to keep in mind regarding last season. Teams double your best rusher so the young guys will at least have to only face one blocker. Last season Odenigbo was doubled something like the 5th most in the league and simply wasn't good enough to overcome that.

A lot is riding on Hunter that's for sure.

Ryan Kerrigan (a guy we were looking at) signed with Philly a one year 2.5ml deal. I think I'd have felt better having him start at DE and either bump inside or sit him on passing downs vs Weatherly for the same money.

Weatherly is a lot younger and did do well here on his rookie deal though.

So I have thoughts. Like tl:dr thoughts.

First: Patterson has said multiple times now that the notion that Minnesota wants a traditional penetrating 3T is a media/fan concoction and not what they are aiming for. In the last however many years the only 'true' 3T I remember them starting was Sheldon Richardson, who was obviously much more interested in going after the QB than stopping the run. And obviously why they seem so enamored with Shamar.

Zimmer wants to stop the run first and foremost. Period. End of story. He favors DEs that can set the edge. Uses Barr far more as a run stopper than as a pass rushing option off the edge. And clearly they few DTs as run stoppers above all else.

For these reasons I see Weatherly as nearly a lock to start unless a veteran is acquired.

I understand Mike's philosophy: if you can't stop the run you allow the opposing OC to open up the entire playbook. We all have lasting memories of the 49ers getting yardage on 1st often enough to allow Shanahan/Young Frankenstein to roll out the kitchen sink. And without any interior run protection at all last year's Defense was doomed.

Think about the Bucs. Once Arians got out of his way and started running the ball and letting Brady perform surgery in the short/quick passing game their Offense took off. Reid helped the Chiefs overcome massive deficits during their Championship run by showing an unusual commitment to the run. Aaron Jones really helped their whiney QB.

If you can make Teams 1 dimensional you can start attacking the passing game. And Zimmer's favorite way to do that is with Front Four pressure only. But he does that with a twist: fake blitz looks.

Second: Minnesota is setting up to play a 4-2-5 with an overhang Player that will play near the LOS to support the run, cover the short/quick passing attack and threaten to bring pressure (while also spying QBs with wheels).

Harry/Surratt/Mac and maybe even some others are going to replace the Double A Gap look by playing that overhang role. And that's going to help the Front Four get more pressure.

Historically, Rodgers and Brees have had some issues with how Mike calls Defense. He's not overly reliant on blitzes and all you need is the right call when you know when one is coming or for your protection to pick it up just long enough and you can hit the chunk play.

But he isn't playing Tampa 2 all game either. He brings the heat just often enough that you have to account for it. And when he's mixing up where it's coming from, or more often where you think it's coming from but then doesn't, that creates just enough hesitation with even the great QBs (minus Brady/Manning) to assist your Front Four.

Second: This Run Defense will be near Top 10, at worst. Tomlinson is legit. And a better pass rusher than Joseph ever was with room to grow. Watch his tape. He reminds me of Kawaan Short, who I pounded the table for back on Purple Thoughts. I truly believe if Pierce has his conditioning to the point where he can play Starter minutes (which y'all don't seem to realize he's never actually done) then I think Dalvin is going to surprise with his ability to succeed against single blockers.

Barr back. Kendricks is unreal at reads and his success rate for his size is special. Hunter has always been good against the run. That's Weatherly's best trait. The variety of players Mike can use in that overhang role will help.

Chemistry needs to be established. No question. But stuffing runs up the gut, which Minnesota legit couldn't do at all last year, doesn't take tons of communication or learning some arcane playbook. Stopping runs to the edges (especially zone runs) will be trickier to be sure, but that's where Barr, Kendricks and Harrison come in the most often.

I wouldn't be surprised if even with the turnover and depth issues if the Vikings snuck into the Top 10 against the run. By the end of the season they even be nearing the Top 5.

Third: If I'm an OC I'm not going to wait very long if I can't get my ground game going before I go Shotgun and start attacking the Vikings horizontally and vertically. And that's where I start getting worried. Zimmer has been morphing more and more into a Zone guy over the years. I'm sure I'm wrong but it felt like that Rams game where all the misdirection was working and they scored like 90 points opened up his eyes.

And why not? Fundamentally speaking, when you're going to do a lot of things near the LOS to pick guys off or trick guys with eye candy the best way to guard against that is to defend areas of the field instead of individual players. 3 WR bunch with picks? OK. My CBs are defending parts of the field, not specific guys.

How many Teams are even playing more Man than Zone any more in this new era of College Football-esque Offense?

The drawback with heavy Zone looks is it leaves short/middle, intermediate and even deep holes for savvy route runners to settle into. The best antidote is to get pressure on the QB. Organically so you don't bring a guy out of coverage and create a hot read.

Hunter, Tomlinson, Actual Blitzer. That's how I'd rate who should have the most sacks next year. And even with fake blitz looks buying a little extra time to get to the QB those looks won't be as challenging to a Team committed to quick throws and taking chances with deeper QB drops for longer pass plays.

Bottom Line: This has always been a Bend but Don't Break Defense. And their Scoring Defense reflects that. Same with Red Zone efficiency, which was still good in an otherwise down year. Couple that with a vastly improved rush defense, which will cause a number of teams to have to get away from what they like to do (no different than what DCs want to do to the Vikings) and I see a lot of improvement. But when Teams come out throwing early and often I see problems.

That's why I think the ceiling is Top 12 or Top 13. Not Top 10 or higher. For so many years this Team has featured 2 double digit capable Sack Artists at DE. That streak ended last year and barring some unexpected breakout by Wonnum (who frankly doesn't profile as close to Hunter as so many want to think) or instantly hitting on Jones a new streak isn't likely to start this year. Even with vastly improved run stuffing. Even with the move to the 4-2-5. Even with fake and actual blitzes from a bevy of unique players.

But in 2022 I'm excited to see what Wonnum/Jones/Robinson/Twyman bring. I predict at least one will become a better than League Average Starter and possibly two will.

Didn't I see someone post the DT QB pressures that showed Tomlinson and Aaron Donald having the same number of pressures?

If that's true, our interior rush shouldn't be an issue.