GM Draft Ranks

suncoastvike
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Some say I'm too laid back. Really, I'm just too lazy to argue with them.

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GM Draft Ranks Apr 28, 2021 5:54:48 GMT -6 Reignman and OdinHammer like this

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Post by suncoastvike on Apr 28, 2021 5:54:48 GMT -6

Apr 28, 2021 0:35:16 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Apr 18, 2021 10:55:47 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

I say:

Wow, our GM is the 6th best drafter in the league and has had full control for a decade? Fantastic, I bet we won a couple Super Bowls in that period, right??

No? Well I bet we've dominated our division, won more crowns than all those other lesser GMs, no doubt?

No? So anyway we certainly have been to the playoffs most of those years, had a couple runs where we won more than one game there?

No??? None of that?

OK, then. Either that awesome GM drafts well but sucks at other parts of his job (like, oh, maybe finding a QB), or he hired a coach who wastes all that good draft material by failing to develop anything worth keeping on a roster from 3/4 of the picks. Or maybe they both totally ignore certain key areas of the team.

Whatever. Show me the baby.

Couldn't have said it better myself, I would have just used 3000 more words to say it and lost everyone after the 8th or 9th paragraph.

But yeah, WTF are these grades based on? It's certainly not results.

Spielman doesn't even sniff my top 14 from the past decade.

 1. Bill Belichick - won 3 Super Bowls, been to 5
 2. John Schneider - won a Super Bowl, been to 2
 3. John Elway - won a Super Bowl, been to 2
 4. Ted Thompson - won a Super Bowl
 5. Jerry Reese - won a Super Bowl
 6. Ozzie Newsome - won a Super Bowl
 7. Howie Roseman - won a Super Bowl
 8. Brett Veach - won a Super Bowl
 9. Kevin Colbert - been to a Super Bowl
10. Trent Baalke - been to a Super Bowl
11. Dave Gettleman - been to a Super Bowl
12. Thomas Dimitroff - been to a Super Bowl
13. Les Snead - been to a Super Bowl
14. John Lynch - been to a Super Bowl

Meanwhile the "#6 ranked GM" is barely above .500 (81-77-2), only won 2 division titles, made 4 playoff appearances, and won 2 miracle playoff games (4 losses). Wow, we better lock him up long term before he gets away.

1st Nice...well maybe not nice? True anyhow.
2nd Don't hold back no matter how many paragraphs it takes. Not your style. You know what they say win some lose others.

Rick is just fine as a 2nd tier guy. I think the guy on the sideline in game is maybe more responsible for holding us back gameday. You don't often hear of a GM getting out GM'd as a coach getting out coached. Just a thought.

If being a Viking fan was easy ~ everyone would do it.

Danchat
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GM Draft Ranks Apr 28, 2021 17:55:20 GMT -6 Reignman and OdinHammer like this

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Post by Danchat on Apr 28, 2021 17:55:20 GMT -6

Apr 28, 2021 0:35:16 GMT -6 Reignman said:

10. Trent Baalke - been to a Super Bowl

I would take Spielman every day of the week over Baalke. Jim Harbaugh coached that team up, fixed Alex Smith and found Colin Kaepernick, and was the main reason why they went to the SB. Baalke won a power struggle with Harbaugh after just a single mediocre year (8-8) and got him fired, which immediately sent the franchise into a tailspin as Baalke hired a yes-man to be the head coach, that being DL coach Jim Tomsula. Notice that the team became relevant again quite quickly after Baalke was fired. He got incredibly lucky riding the tailcoat of Harbaugh and now somehow he's the Jags' GM. He stinks at drafting and signing free agents.

Apr 28, 2021 0:35:16 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Dave Gettleman - been to a Super Bowl

Eh, Gettleman isn't that good... got fired a year after their SB loss and has been poorly rebuilding the Giants' roster.

OdinHammer
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GM Draft Ranks Apr 28, 2021 22:01:30 GMT -6 Reignman, suncoastvike, and 2 more like this

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Post by OdinHammer on Apr 28, 2021 22:01:30 GMT -6

I'm unclear on what exactly this is measuring. Was Spielman allegedly the 6th best GM specifically when it comes to drafting, or is it supposed to be a more broad ranking that encompasses all of a GM's duties? At any rate I'd put Spielman somewhere in the 10-14 range among GMs which puts him right in line with how Cousins compares to other QBs and Zimmer to other Head Coaches. Our GM/HC/QB trifecta is all in that range IMO.

Longship
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GM Draft Ranks Apr 29, 2021 12:55:30 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

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Post by Longship on Apr 29, 2021 12:55:30 GMT -6

Apr 28, 2021 17:55:20 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Apr 28, 2021 0:35:16 GMT -6 Reignman said:

10. Trent Baalke - been to a Super Bowl

I would take Spielman every day of the week over Baalke. Jim Harbaugh coached that team up, fixed Alex Smith and found Colin Kaepernick, and was the main reason why they went to the SB. Baalke won a power struggle with Harbaugh after just a single mediocre year (8-8) and got him fired, which immediately sent the franchise into a tailspin as Baalke hired a yes-man to be the head coach, that being DL coach Jim Tomsula. Notice that the team became relevant again quite quickly after Baalke was fired. He got incredibly lucky riding the tailcoat of Harbaugh and now somehow he's the Jags' GM. He stinks at drafting and signing free agents.

Trent Baalke hired Jim Harbaugh's coattails, along with the rest of Jim Harbaugh.

You're certainly free to strip Baalke of credit for hiring Harbaugh in order to bolster the argument that Spielman is better. But then Spielman gets no pass for his first five full years on the job due to allegedly having only marginal "TOA" authority which didn't include hiring a head coach.

And for the most part it's only the fiercest Spielman advocates who are eager to rationalize 14.5 years of Spielman running the show without even a conference championship to show for it.

Last Edit: Apr 29, 2021 13:30:40 GMT -6 by Longship

Danchat
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GM Draft Ranks Apr 29, 2021 18:17:06 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Apr 29, 2021 18:17:06 GMT -6

Apr 29, 2021 12:55:30 GMT -6 Longship said:

Apr 28, 2021 17:55:20 GMT -6 Danchat said:

I would take Spielman every day of the week over Baalke. Jim Harbaugh coached that team up, fixed Alex Smith and found Colin Kaepernick, and was the main reason why they went to the SB. Baalke won a power struggle with Harbaugh after just a single mediocre year (8-8) and got him fired, which immediately sent the franchise into a tailspin as Baalke hired a yes-man to be the head coach, that being DL coach Jim Tomsula. Notice that the team became relevant again quite quickly after Baalke was fired. He got incredibly lucky riding the tailcoat of Harbaugh and now somehow he's the Jags' GM. He stinks at drafting and signing free agents.

Trent Baalke hired Jim Harbaugh's coattails, along with the rest of Jim Harbaugh.

You're certainly free to strip Baalke of credit for hiring Harbaugh in order to bolster the argument that Spielman is better. But then Spielman gets no pass for his first five full years on the job due to allegedly having only marginal "TOA" authority which didn't include hiring a head coach.

And for the most part it's only the fiercest Spielman advocates who are eager to rationalize 14.5 years of Spielman running the show without even a conference championship to show for it.

It's not about Spielman, my point was that Baalke is incompetent without Harbaugh. He's a toxic GM who forced his great coach out and failed drafts and hired Tomsula and Chip Kelly and sent the team to the gutter. I don't forgive everything bad a GM does just because they've been to a single Super Bowl.

Longship
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GM Draft Ranks Apr 29, 2021 20:43:11 GMT -6

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Post by Longship on Apr 29, 2021 20:43:11 GMT -6

Apr 29, 2021 18:17:06 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Apr 29, 2021 12:55:30 GMT -6 Longship said:

Trent Baalke hired Jim Harbaugh's coattails, along with the rest of Jim Harbaugh.

You're certainly free to strip Baalke of credit for hiring Harbaugh in order to bolster the argument that Spielman is better. But then Spielman gets no pass for his first five full years on the job due to allegedly having only marginal "TOA" authority which didn't include hiring a head coach.

And for the most part it's only the fiercest Spielman advocates who are eager to rationalize 14.5 years of Spielman running the show without even a conference championship to show for it.

It's not about Spielman, my point was that Baalke is incompetent without Harbaugh. He's a toxic GM who forced his great coach out and failed drafts and hired Tomsula and Chip Kelly and sent the team to the gutter. I don't forgive everything bad a GM does just because they've been to a single Super Bowl.

Your post that I was responding to began with this sentence:

"I would take Spielman every day of the week over Baalke."

So it had at least a little to do with Spielman.

But this dead end is partly my fault too, because I forgot that we had a similar conversation in which your assessment was that the Eagles' SB win in no way validated their leadership either.

If I remember right, though, you did agree with me in principle that GMs should be A) evaluated in terms of on-field performance, including the postseason, and B) held accountable for it. But when you rate multiple Super Bowl GMs beneath Spielman while ignoring his unprecedented tenure without a SB appearance, I'm just not seeing either A or B.

giveu1guess BosViking Posts: 2,598 Likes: 1,091	GM Draft Ranks Apr 29, 2021 20:49:03 GMT -6 via Tapatalk Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by giveu1guess on Apr 29, 2021 20:49:03 GMT -6 I'm preemptively declaring Rick the winner of this year's draft. He's that good.

TAFKASP Hall of Fame Inductee Posts: 10,687 Likes: 9,119	GM Draft Ranks Apr 30, 2021 9:34:39 GMT -6 via mobile giveu1guess likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by TAFKASP on Apr 30, 2021 9:34:39 GMT -6 Apr 29, 2021 20:49:03 GMT -6 giveu1guess said: I'm preemptively declaring Rick the winner of this year's draft. He's that good. #Rick4Life crew checking in!
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