PFT: Cousins hasn’t taken Vikes where they thought he would

vikingpitbull
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PFT: Cousins hasn’t taken Vikes where they thought he would Dec 26, 2020 13:41:16 GMT -6 via mobile giveu1guess likes this

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Post by vikingpitbull on Dec 26, 2020 13:41:16 GMT -6

Dec 26, 2020 13:30:29 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Dec 26, 2020 13:15:12 GMT -6 PurplePeopleEater said:

This article speaks to the story of Kirk's career as a viking, and the franchise itself over the past 20 years. Not just about yesterday. Your "cousins isn't responsible for giving up 52 points" argument is worthless here. There is a body of work here that cannot be blamed on one particular defensive outing. I would be willing to bet that our defense has been comfortably above average in most metrics during cousins tenure as a viking, and that would definitely be true in his first 2 years. And that is even more true when you expand that over the past 20 years. We have had some very strong defenses the past 2 decades where we have been elite against the run for stretches, elite against the pass for stretches, historical on 3rd down for stretches... teams have been true contenders with equivalentor worse defenses over this time frame.

Are there any other credible arguments out there besides the "kirk cant go play DT and stop the run!!!" Argument??

Nope, when it comes to Kirk the only defense people have is to blame others for his failings.

Wait he's had built in excuses on two clubs now. It's amazing the same issues rise on two different clubs. Maybe he should stop chasing the pot of gold and go to a winning team to prove his skills are legit. Wait that's why he came here vs the Jets. A winning team that has went down hill since a huge contract has all but killed this team. Again when you make double of the next highest paid guy shouldn't there be higher expectations.

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PFT: Cousins hasn’t taken Vikes where they thought he would Dec 26, 2020 13:48:36 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Dec 26, 2020 13:48:36 GMT -6

Dec 26, 2020 13:15:12 GMT -6 PurplePeopleEater said:

Dec 26, 2020 11:44:53 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Oh look, a story bashing the QB because they didn't win. I wonder, were is the story the pathetic defense over the past year? Wait, that's right, it's all on the QB, he's being paid big money so he supposed to overcome a bad defense. Vikings defense has given up 29 ppg this year. But again, I'm sure that's kirks fault.

This article speaks to the story of Kirk's career as a viking, and the franchise itself over the past 20 years. Not just about yesterday. Your "cousins isn't responsible for giving up 52 points" argument is worthless here. There is a body of work here that cannot be blamed on one particular defensive outing. I would be willing to bet that our defense has been comfortably above average in most metrics during cousins tenure as a viking, and that would definitely be true in his first 2 years. And that is even more true when you expand that over the past 20 years. We have had some very strong defenses the past 2 decades where we have been elite against the run for stretches, elite against the pass for stretches, historical on 3rd down for stretches... teams have been true contenders with equivalentor worse defenses over this time frame.

Are there any other credible arguments out there besides the "kirk cant go play DT and stop the run!!!" Argument??

And you would be wrong. 23 ppg on defense is not above average, it is average. All other defensive metrics are moot. It makes for a .500 team. Which is what the Vikings are. And the QB wouldn't matter. Well it might. It might make them a few games above .500. 29 ppg this year on defense. But Kirk isn't getting it done. Got it. That equates to a 3-13 team. Not a 6-9 or 7-9 team.

Last Edit: Dec 26, 2020 13:50:19 GMT -6 by Raptorman

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PFT: Cousins hasn’t taken Vikes where they thought he would Dec 26, 2020 13:49:56 GMT -6 bdillon0820 likes this

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Post by suncoastvike on Dec 26, 2020 13:49:56 GMT -6

1st let me 2nd Funkytown. Florio has never been a trusted source for me.
However there's not much in this article that doesn't jive with his and our history.

This I found so true. Mostly because I've said so my ownself.

"In 2018, the Vikings scratched and clawed to 8-7-1. A Week 17 home game against the Bears, who had locked up the division title and were playing for nothing, resulted in a Minnesota loss — and a failure to make the playoffs."

...wash rinse and repeat.

If being a Viking fan was easy ~ everyone would do it.

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PFT: Cousins hasn’t taken Vikes where they thought he would Dec 26, 2020 13:57:46 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on Dec 26, 2020 13:57:46 GMT -6

Dec 26, 2020 13:48:36 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Dec 26, 2020 13:15:12 GMT -6 PurplePeopleEater said:

This article speaks to the story of Kirk's career as a viking, and the franchise itself over the past 20 years. Not just about yesterday. Your "cousins isn't responsible for giving up 52 points" argument is worthless here. There is a body of work here that cannot be blamed on one particular defensive outing. I would be willing to bet that our defense has been comfortably above average in most metrics during cousins tenure as a viking, and that would definitely be true in his first 2 years. And that is even more true when you expand that over the past 20 years. We have had some very strong defenses the past 2 decades where we have been elite against the run for stretches, elite against the pass for stretches, historical on 3rd down for stretches... teams have been true contenders with equivalentor worse defenses over this time frame.

Are there any other credible arguments out there besides the "kirk cant go play DT and stop the run!!!" Argument??

And you would be wrong. 23 ppg on defense is not above average, it is average. All other defensive metrics are moot. It makes for a .500 team. Which is what the Vikings are. And the QB wouldn't matter. Well it might. It might make them a few games above .500. 29 ppg this year on defense. But Kirk isn't getting it done. Got it. That equates to a 3-13 team. Not a 6-9 or 7-9 team.

It's amazing how fixated you are on ppg for any and all arguments as the end all be all. How about joining real world status. Yes 3-13 is soooooo much worse than 6-9 or 8-8. It's a failure anyway you look. I guess Kirk gets 10 mill a year for each additional win. At a boy Kirk.

Last Edit: Dec 26, 2020 14:01:11 GMT -6 by vikingpitbull

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PFT: Cousins hasn’t taken Vikes where they thought he would Dec 26, 2020 14:03:37 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Dec 26, 2020 14:03:37 GMT -6

Dec 26, 2020 13:48:36 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Dec 26, 2020 13:15:12 GMT -6 PurplePeopleEater said:

This article speaks to the story of Kirk's career as a viking, and the franchise itself over the past 20 years. Not just about yesterday. Your "cousins isn't responsible for giving up 52 points" argument is worthless here. There is a body of work here that cannot be blamed on one particular defensive outing. I would be willing to bet that our defense has been comfortably above average in most metrics during cousins tenure as a viking, and that would definitely be true in his first 2 years. And that is even more true when you expand that over the past 20 years. We have had some very strong defenses the past 2 decades where we have been elite against the run for stretches, elite against the pass for stretches, historical on 3rd down for stretches... teams have been true contenders with equivalentor worse defenses over this time frame.

Are there any other credible arguments out there besides the "kirk cant go play DT and stop the run!!!" Argument??

And you would be wrong. 23 ppg on defense is not above average, it is average. All other defensive metrics are moot. It makes for a .500 team. Which is what the Vikings are. And the QB wouldn't matter. Well it might. It might make them a few games above .500. 29 ppg this year on defense. But Kirk isn't getting it done. Got it. That equates to a 3-13 team. Not a 6-9 or 7-9 team.

You might be the only football fan alive who doesn't believe the QB has a huge impact on wins and losses.

Just as a FYI, the Vikings gave up 18 points per game in 2018, and 19 points per game in 2019. Those are the numbers when you remove all the TDs the offense gave up to the opposing team, something you should do when you make the argument the defense is costing the team wins, don't you think?

suncoastvike
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PFT: Cousins hasn’t taken Vikes where they thought he would Dec 26, 2020 14:04:45 GMT -6

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Post by suncoastvike on Dec 26, 2020 14:04:45 GMT -6

Dec 26, 2020 13:57:46 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Dec 26, 2020 13:48:36 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

And you would be wrong. 23 ppg on defense is not above average, it is average. All other defensive metrics are moot. It makes for a .500 team. Which is what the Vikings are. And the QB wouldn't matter. Well it might. It might make them a few games above .500. 29 ppg this year on defense. But Kirk isn't getting it done. Got it. That equates to a 3-13 team. Not a 6-9 or 7-9 team.

It's amazing how fixated you are on ppg for any and all arguments as the end all be all. How about joining real world status. Yes 3-13 is soooooo much worse than 6-9 or 8-8. It's a failure anyway you look.

I don't agree. I get what your saying but no. 6-10 is way more then twice as good as 3-13. Those few times in history when we did go 3-13 it still wasn't good enough to draft #1. I for one don't ever want to finish last overall. I get the reward for it is worthwhile to some. To me I never want to utter the words...dead last. Just me.

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PFT: Cousins hasn’t taken Vikes where they thought he would Dec 26, 2020 14:13:18 GMT -6 via mobile Funkytown likes this

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Post by bdillon0820 on Dec 26, 2020 14:13:18 GMT -6

Meh, Florio is like any other lazy analyst who just looks at the QB but not the team. This team has a hell lot more problems than its QB. They have a terrible defense with a number of its good defensive players out. They couldn't keep some of their defensive players because of bad cap management. Their special teams has been an absolute joke with a kicker who picked a terrible time to start sucking. The Vikings' problems are not due to a lack of trying. They have tried to address the QB position as best as they can over the years. They overrdrafted Ponder who stunk. They drafted Teddy who's career died with the Vikings just before it could have taken off. They overpaid for a QB who had good stats because they were incapable of drafting a good QB. I don't blame the Vikings for trying to sign a good QB. I blame them for giving that QB too much guaranteed money.

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PFT: Cousins hasn’t taken Vikes where they thought he would Dec 26, 2020 14:14:15 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on Dec 26, 2020 14:14:15 GMT -6

Dec 26, 2020 14:04:45 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Dec 26, 2020 13:57:46 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

It's amazing how fixated you are on ppg for any and all arguments as the end all be all. How about joining real world status. Yes 3-13 is soooooo much worse than 6-9 or 8-8. It's a failure anyway you look.

I don't agree. I get what your saying but no. 6-10 is way more then twice as good as 3-13. Those few times in history when we did go 3-13 it still wasn't good enough to draft #1. I for one don't ever want to finish last overall. I get the reward for it is worthwhile to some. To me I never want to utter the words...dead last. Just me.

For what? A moral victory lap? When you have Detroit in your division 3rd place is dead last. Wait we are the Lions. I treat 6 wins just as I would 3. Both are worthy of jack and should encourage change.

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PFT: Cousins hasn’t taken Vikes where they thought he would Dec 26, 2020 14:16:29 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on Dec 26, 2020 14:16:29 GMT -6

Dec 26, 2020 13:27:19 GMT -6 giveu1guess said:

Dec 26, 2020 12:37:38 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Like what? The article that was posted?

We were hoping that you'd comment on the article..... in substance......

That article like the majority of articles on the Vikings (good or bad) is just the same repeated stuff.

Kirk Cousins is paid a lot of money and has failed to lead the Vikings to a SB win.

As GM for the Vikings Ricky hasn't built a SB winning team.

Case Keenum had a career year in 2017.

Zimmer has failed to coach the Vikings to a SB win.

The 2014-2020 Minnesota Vikings have been a fringe playoff team who got beat by Seattle because Walsh missed a chip shot and got blown out by the Eagles and the 49ers. I could go back 20 years and name all the disappointments of this team, but I'm sure you know all about that.......

Just good enough. But never, ever truly great.

Last Edit: Dec 26, 2020 14:18:46 GMT -6 by vikingpwr

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PFT: Cousins hasn’t taken Vikes where they thought he would Dec 26, 2020 14:16:31 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on Dec 26, 2020 14:16:31 GMT -6

Dec 26, 2020 14:13:18 GMT -6 bdillon0820 said:

Meh, Florio is like any other lazy analyst who just looks at the QB but not the team. This team has a hell lot more problems than its QB. They have a terrible defense with a number of its good defensive players out. They couldn't keep some of their defensive players because of bad cap management. Their special teams has been an absolute joke with a kicker who picked a terrible time to start sucking. The Vikings' problems are not due to a lack of trying. They have tried to address the QB position as best as they can over the years. They overrdrafted Ponder who stunk. They drafted Teddy who's career died with the Vikings just before it could have taken off. They overpaid for a QB who had good stats because they were incapable of drafting a good QB. I don't blame the Vikings for trying to sign a good QB. I blame them for giving that QB too much guaranteed money.

So this is one of those circular blame no one posts?

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PFT: Cousins hasn’t taken Vikes where they thought he would Dec 26, 2020 14:55:16 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by bdillon0820 on Dec 26, 2020 14:55:16 GMT -6

Dec 26, 2020 14:16:31 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Dec 26, 2020 14:13:18 GMT -6 bdillon0820 said:

Meh, Florio is like any other lazy analyst who just looks at the QB but not the team. This team has a hell lot more problems than its QB. They have a terrible defense with a number of its good defensive players out. They couldn't keep some of their defensive players because of bad cap management. Their special teams has been an absolute joke with a kicker who picked a terrible time to start sucking. The Vikings' problems are not due to a lack of trying. They have tried to address the QB position as best as they can over the years. They overrdrafted Ponder who stunk. They drafted Teddy who's career died with the Vikings just before it could have taken off. They overpaid for a QB who had good stats because they were incapable of drafting a good QB. I don't blame the Vikings for trying to sign a good QB. I blame them for giving that QB too much guaranteed money.

So this is one of those circular blame no one posts?

This is one of those QB isn't the only problem posts. Just a sh*t year for the Vikes.

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PFT: Cousins hasn’t taken Vikes where they thought he would Dec 26, 2020 15:01:17 GMT -6 via mobile vikingpwr likes this

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Post by Nordic on Dec 26, 2020 15:01:17 GMT -6

Dec 26, 2020 11:29:45 GMT -6 PurplePeopleEater said:

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/26/kirk-cousins-hasnt-taken-vikings-where-they-thought-he-would/

Bos, did you write this??? Because it sounds a LOT like what people like you and I have been saying for years. They even touch on the mindset of the Wilfs and the profitability aspect which has been somewhat of a recent take I have been peddling alongside the rest of the argument.

When this kind of thing goes mainstream like this, from journos and pundits like PFT, you know it's game over. There is really no defense against it any longer. This is not just deep internet privately run fan forum banter from pessimistic anti-fans. It's reality. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Funkytown vikingpwr

I don't know exactly how "the game is over", but I wouldn't be surprised if a change is made. If anything, the Wilfs will be feeling the pressure of putting a winning product on the field, and with the personnel pretty much locked in as of today, the head that roles is probably going to be Zimmers. And it probably should, this year aside, his ability to coach has been suspect and quite frankly, he's been way in over his head for quite sometime.

As far as the article goes, "DUH"! Congrats to captain obvious Florio for taking notes the last 5 years and drumming up that garbage. I swear, I should have used my degrees much differently and become a sports writer.🙄

Again, I think Zimmer gets the Axe after next weekend, and he should. His words yesterday showed a complete lack of what a leader is and should be, and truth be told, he's a weak as his defense.

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,672 Likes: 31,597 Fan Since: 1998 Member is Online	PFT: Cousins hasn’t taken Vikes where they thought he would Dec 26, 2020 19:43:21 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Dec 26, 2020 19:43:21 GMT -6

jeremy2020 Cheerleader Posts: 16 Likes: 16	PFT: Cousins hasn’t taken Vikes where they thought he would Dec 26, 2020 20:40:53 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by jeremy2020 on Dec 26, 2020 20:40:53 GMT -6 Kirk Cousins has always sucked. Shame he didn't take the higher offer from the Jets.

suncoastvike
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PFT: Cousins hasn’t taken Vikes where they thought he would Dec 26, 2020 21:09:29 GMT -6

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Post by suncoastvike on Dec 26, 2020 21:09:29 GMT -6

Dec 26, 2020 14:14:15 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Dec 26, 2020 14:04:45 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

I don't agree. I get what your saying but no. 6-10 is way more then twice as good as 3-13. Those few times in history when we did go 3-13 it still wasn't good enough to draft #1. I for one don't ever want to finish last overall. I get the reward for it is worthwhile to some. To me I never want to utter the words...dead last. Just me.

For what? A moral victory lap? When you have Detroit in your division 3rd place is dead last. Wait we are the Lions. I treat 6 wins just as I would 3. Both are worthy of jack and should encourage change.

We are not the Lion's. Detroit has drafted 1st several times and top 5 many more yet haven't won a playoff game in a generation. 28 years and counting so if drafting high was all it took...
Be honest. You don't see a difference between 6-10 or 10-6 because if we didn't win it all we lost. I get that and don't. I can say I don't share it. What I will say is all the top 5 picks in the world don't mean squat if you squander the picks or the talent with no plan. The bottom line. Either a team is headed up or down. The goal is to head up to the pinnacle before the decline. What we are doing now is up and down every other year. That's bad but better then flat lining for 28 years. We need to restructure this team and grow in the right direction. I want change too. I'm not satisfied if that what you mean.

Last Edit: Dec 26, 2020 21:10:51 GMT -6 by suncoastvike

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