No Spin, Key moves needed for turnaround plan for 2021

vikingpwr
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No Spin, Key moves needed for turnaround plan for 2021 Dec 24, 2020 23:28:21 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on Dec 24, 2020 23:28:21 GMT -6

Dec 24, 2020 22:41:19 GMT -6 bonuspick said:

Dec 24, 2020 22:23:16 GMT -6 HarryHits22 said:

he is an UFA, meaning that we don't have to do anything, because his contract with the Vikings expires at the start of the new season. He will be open to the market to sign with any team in the league at the start of the new year.

Just to clarify, I think what you're trying to say is that we should make no effort to resign him and let him test the open market. I would disagree with him being "average at best", I think he's played above average, although not at an elite level this year. I do agree that we should let him walk though, simply because we have no reasonable alternative with the cap situation we are in.

Yes, not at the high salary they paid him this year. We will have to disagree about his play this year. Zimmer called out the safety play a couple of times this year without names in post game interviews but it was obvious he was talking about Harris. I saw him out of position in the pass and run game too many times this year. He was way late many times, took bad angles in the run game, played very soft pass coverage at times. Little to no picks or pass breakups. Unlike the year before were he was one of the top rated safety's and playing at a pro bowl level. Huge drop off this year after a big pay day.

This was interesting.

zonecoverage.com/2020/minnesota-vikings-news/no-anthony-harris-isnt-having-a-down-year/

mikenessfan
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No Spin, Key moves needed for turnaround plan for 2021 Dec 24, 2020 23:40:05 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by mikenessfan on Dec 24, 2020 23:40:05 GMT -6

I agree with the op about trying to cut or trade the guys on his list just because of their play, although like a few have mentioned some of those guys are free agents when this season ends so they aren’t under contract with the Vikings when this season is officially over with (we can’t trade or cut them at that point) and can go sign wherever they want.

We are going to be cap strapped no matter who we cut or trade so there won’t be much $ for us to spend in fa so we most likely aren’t getting any impact fa. Which leaves the draft for us to improve the team. Only issue with that is we don’t have a 2nd round pick thanks to that fun ngakoue trade rick made which he then trade 5 games into the season where we will get a late 3rd round pick back for from Baltimore (pennies on the dollar). So we have our first round pick which should equal a starter off the bat, but then we won’t pick until mid 3rd round (our original 3rd round pick) and then late towards the end of round 3. Maybe get 1 starter next year out of those 2 3rd round picks for next season. After that it’s doubtful and if the remaining picks will be able to fill a starting spot next season as an upgrade to what we have already there (not that in the future they won’t end up starting after next season). I think our team next year will be pretty similar to what it was this year in terms of talent other than pierce and hunter back. And in that respect We are most likely looking at close to the same record we had this season maybe a win or two more. Maybe get a playoff spot. That what this team is. Again I don’t think we are going to seriously contend for a sb until we change the regime (the gm and hc) as well as get out from that cousins contract and find our next young qb (hopefully the new regime will figure out who the right draft choice at qb will be). Maybe we get lucky and fall into a Herbert type prospect who isn’t an obvious choice during draft process (obvious as in luck, Lawrence, Peyton manning type).

legendsofthenorth
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No Spin, Key moves needed for turnaround plan for 2021 Dec 24, 2020 23:56:08 GMT -6 via mobile ozzvic likes this

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Post by legendsofthenorth on Dec 24, 2020 23:56:08 GMT -6

Dec 24, 2020 23:28:21 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Dec 24, 2020 22:41:19 GMT -6 bonuspick said:

Yes, not at the high salary they paid him this year. We will have to disagree about his play this year. Zimmer called out the safety play a couple of times this year without names in post game interviews but it was obvious he was talking about Harris. I saw him out of position in the pass and run game too many times this year. He was way late many times, took bad angles in the run game, played very soft pass coverage at times. Little to no picks or pass breakups. Unlike the year before were he was one of the top rated safety's and playing at a pro bowl level. Huge drop off this year after a big pay day.

This was interesting.

zonecoverage.com/2020/minnesota-vikings-news/no-anthony-harris-isnt-having-a-down-year/

So he went from a 91 PFF to a 66 PFF. And its because of more responsibilities and changing concepts? And then the article says he is flexible?

It's a good read but I am calling BS on this article.

mikenessfan
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No Spin, Key moves needed for turnaround plan for 2021 Dec 24, 2020 23:57:52 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by mikenessfan on Dec 24, 2020 23:57:52 GMT -6

Dec 24, 2020 23:56:08 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Dec 24, 2020 23:28:21 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

This was interesting.

zonecoverage.com/2020/minnesota-vikings-news/no-anthony-harris-isnt-having-a-down-year/

So he went from a 91 PFF to a 66 PFF. And its because of more responsibilities and changing concepts? And then the article says he is flexible?

It's a good read but I am calling BS on this article.

Yeah just watching him this year he isn’t up to playing as well as the prior year. I don’t want him back after this year unless it’s a team friendly deal.

legendsofthenorth
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No Spin, Key moves needed for turnaround plan for 2021 Dec 25, 2020 0:00:29 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by legendsofthenorth on Dec 25, 2020 0:00:29 GMT -6

Dec 24, 2020 23:57:52 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

Dec 24, 2020 23:56:08 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

So he went from a 91 PFF to a 66 PFF. And its because of more responsibilities and changing concepts? And then the article says he is flexible?

It's a good read but I am calling BS on this article.

Yeah just watching him this year he isn’t up to playing as well as the prior year. I don’t want him back after this year unless it’s a team friendly deal.

He wants his money. He is gone. If was going to give a friendly deal he would have done last year. Dont blame him for wanting his $$$ though

mikenessfan
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No Spin, Key moves needed for turnaround plan for 2021 Dec 25, 2020 0:06:54 GMT -6 via mobile legendsofthenorth likes this

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Post by mikenessfan on Dec 25, 2020 0:06:54 GMT -6

Dec 25, 2020 0:00:29 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Dec 24, 2020 23:57:52 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

Yeah just watching him this year he isn’t up to playing as well as the prior year. I don’t want him back after this year unless it’s a team friendly deal.

He wants his money. He is gone. If was going to give a friendly deal he would have done last year. Dont blame him for wanting his $$$ though

Oh I don’t, I’m always siding with the players in the sense that this is their career and most likely the only time they will ever be able to make a huge earnings like they can right now as a pro football player. So yeah go get that $ to any player. That being said I agree with you in the sense he will be chasing the biggest deal he can get and that won’t be from the Vikings. Nor does he deserve a huge deal.

comet52
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No Spin, Key moves needed for turnaround plan for 2021 Dec 25, 2020 1:17:53 GMT -6 via mobile legendsofthenorth likes this

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Post by comet52 on Dec 25, 2020 1:17:53 GMT -6

Dec 24, 2020 22:41:19 GMT -6 bonuspick said:

Dec 24, 2020 22:23:16 GMT -6 HarryHits22 said:

he is an UFA, meaning that we don't have to do anything, because his contract with the Vikings expires at the start of the new season. He will be open to the market to sign with any team in the league at the start of the new year.

Just to clarify, I think what you're trying to say is that we should make no effort to resign him and let him test the open market. I would disagree with him being "average at best", I think he's played above average, although not at an elite level this year. I do agree that we should let him walk though, simply because we have no reasonable alternative with the cap situation we are in.

Yes, not at the high salary they paid him this year. We will have to disagree about his play this year. Zimmer called out the safety play a couple of times this year without names in post game interviews but it was obvious he was talking about Harris. I saw him out of position in the pass and run game too many times this year. He was way late many times, took bad angles in the run game, played very soft pass coverage at times. Little to no picks or pass breakups. Unlike the year before were he was one of the top rated safety's and playing at a pro bowl level. Huge drop off this year after a big pay day.

Not surprising since he wanted out and they forced him to stay via the tag. Bit of a silent protest it seems.

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comet52
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No Spin, Key moves needed for turnaround plan for 2021 Dec 25, 2020 1:21:17 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by comet52 on Dec 25, 2020 1:21:17 GMT -6

Dec 24, 2020 16:19:50 GMT -6 bonuspick said:

Talking Points
Attention Zigmister, Zman, and little Ricky
Here are key moves that need to be made to make this team a contender next year
Feel free to take notes and follow the blue print and you will build a championship team next year


1st)Get rid of overpaid players that are not worth the money going forward

Trade or cut Anthony Barr get a 2nd rounder for him.
Trade or cut Kyle Rudolph get a third or 4th rounder for him.
Trade or cut Anthony Harris get a 3rd rounder for him.

This will give us additional draft picks and or a large savings in salary cap. This will allow us to sign upgrade F/A at other more important positions of need.

2nd) Players that need to be demoted or cut ASAP due to poor performance during the season

Dakota Dozier demoted, he should never start a game again
Cris Jones cut
Kris Boyd cut
KJ Osborn cut
DT Johnson demoted
DT Homes demoted
QB Mannion demoted or cut, above average upgrade needed
Dan Bailey needs to compete against a good candidate to win the starting job

Although Cousins played pretty well this year considering the horrible offensive inside G play and average C play I would consider trading him if someone offered a high 2nd round pick for him and takes over his contract. If that happens I would use or 1st round pick for Zach Wison, I would cut Mannion and find an upgrade and acquire Robert Griffith or Ryan Fitzpatrick for competition and a competent backup.


3) Positions that need to be upgraded in F/A or the draft
G's above average free agent signing & draft a G within the first 2 rounds. Look for G's that have size and a good anchor that can physically move large DT's and not get pushed back and collapse the interior pocket on passing plays. They need to be able to pass block as well as they run block. Do not draft a T or C in college to play G. Draft a true G. Novel concept
I disagree with Little Ricky\s interview that he thinks we have a good offensive line right now. Especially the G's. Just because Cook has gained a lot of yardage, does not mean they are opening large holes for him, they normally are not and he is making the yardage inspite of them not because of them. The G's are terrible in pass blocking by any objective measure.
Sign an above average F/A or Draft an DT that can pass rush effectively and collapse interior pocket. 3rd round
Sign an above average F/A or draft a SS 3rd round
Sign an above average F/A cover corner.

4)Players that should be given more playing time who have played well
Tyler Konklin
Todd Davis played better than Dye
Harrison Hand
James Lynch
Jordan Brailford
Udoh should be given a chance at G to see if he could improve that position. I think he could from a size and strength stand point.

5)Fire ineffective coaches and hire effective coaches
Special team coaches need to be fired. Hire top ST college coach with a good track record
Consider hiring an established DC with a good track record as a DC. Marvin Lewis, etc

Other coaching suggestions
Kubiak needs to get more creative in his play calling.
Hire an a top innovative college OC as an offensive OC assistant to Kubiak

4 Most important upgraded positions that are needed next year
Both G's major upgrade
pass rushing DT under-tackle major upgrade
F/A above average cover corner



Feel free to opine but remember to keep it pithy!

I agree with a lot of your points, they make sense. Unfortunately this organization as it sits isn't going to innovate on the coach or g.m. side, it's very status quo and believes in doing the same thing year in and year out despite the lack of real results.

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No Spin, Key moves needed for turnaround plan for 2021 Dec 25, 2020 2:10:11 GMT -6 ozzvic likes this

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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2020 2:10:11 GMT -6

Guys like KJ Osborn you might as well keep and let him compete at training camp and then cut him if beating out since he makes vet min anyways and does not count against the 53

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No Spin, Key moves needed for turnaround plan for 2021 Dec 25, 2020 2:15:43 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2020 2:15:43 GMT -6

KJ Osborn might as well be kept and cut after training camp since he making vet min and doesn't really count against cap. Kris Boyd is okay as a depth CB and ST guy to me again, his salary is minimal too. He is a alright role player in my opinion.

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No Spin, Key moves needed for turnaround plan for 2021 Dec 25, 2020 2:19:45 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2020 2:19:45 GMT -6

Dec 25, 2020 1:21:17 GMT -6 comet52 said:

doh should be given a chance at G to see if he could improve that position. I think he could from a size and strength stand point.

Welcome aboard I been screaming this like the boy who cried wolf for a year.. I am so tired of the light weight guards Oli is my pet project.. For real my bad I left out the U.

Last Edit: Dec 25, 2020 2:21:56 GMT -6 by Deleted

ozzvic
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No Spin, Key moves needed for turnaround plan for 2021 Dec 25, 2020 2:30:49 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by ozzvic on Dec 25, 2020 2:30:49 GMT -6

Dec 24, 2020 21:30:08 GMT -6 bonuspick said:

Dec 24, 2020 17:57:26 GMT -6 HarryHits22 said:

Anthony Harris is an UFA, we won't be able to trade him unless we franchise him again, which I doubt we'll be able to fit under the cap.

I am not a cap or salary cap person, the point I was trying to make that he and the others listed have not played up to there contracts a far as their production in the last year. We can do as well if not better as far as production with other less expensive replacements. Wilson for Barr, Tod Davis played well also. Konklin for Rudy. Hand or high draft pick for Harris. I was saying those 3 seemed to stand out as not playing up to their current contracts. Not sure of the exact savings by trading or cutting them at a certain time. But it would be worth getting as high of draft picks as possible via a trade for any of them at some time in the future before next season

In one post you say save cap space by doing this & that then in another you totally say im not a cap guy which totally contradicts your whole point of starting the thread.

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No Spin, Key moves needed for turnaround plan for 2021 Dec 25, 2020 3:06:56 GMT -6 comet52 and vikingpitbull like this

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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2020 3:06:56 GMT -6

Dec 24, 2020 16:19:50 GMT -6 bonuspick said:

Talking Points
Attention Zigmister, Zman, and little Ricky
Here are key moves that need to be made to make this team a contender next year
Feel free to take notes and follow the blue print and you will build a championship team next year

So you start off the thread with this,which suggests that you have some idea of how the salary cap and free agency works.

Dec 24, 2020 21:30:08 GMT -6 bonuspick said:

I am not a cap or salary cap person

And then when I am pithy with my reply,you come up with this.

Dec 24, 2020 21:05:45 GMT -6 Danchat said:

You don't need to be so harsh with him. Use constructive criticism!

It was constructive.

If he has no idea how free agency and the salary cap works then why start a thread about roster construction.

He should have stated in the op that he wasn't sure about how the cap works.He also asked for people to be pithy,and that's what I was.

A pithy statement is one that gets right to the heart of the matter.

suncoastvike
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No Spin, Key moves needed for turnaround plan for 2021 Dec 25, 2020 5:40:56 GMT -6 comet52, ozzvic, and 1 more like this

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Post by suncoastvike on Dec 25, 2020 5:40:56 GMT -6

Not Rudy. Not one of my favorites. Ok he's getting older and is overpaid. Yes he has the foot speed of a three toed sloth migrating....what was my argument? Oh yeah not Rudy.

If being a Viking fan was easy ~ everyone would do it.

wxman91
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No Spin, Key moves needed for turnaround plan for 2021 Dec 25, 2020 8:40:59 GMT -6 via mobile vikingpitbull likes this

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Post by wxman91 on Dec 25, 2020 8:40:59 GMT -6

Dec 24, 2020 22:22:16 GMT -6 bonuspick said:

Dec 24, 2020 19:09:26 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Appreciate you putting time into this. I really enjoy reading things like this! I dont know if you are going to find much argument with your needs

Thanks, no arguments with any intelligent Viking fans, but I think if Little Ricky fails again to upgrade both G positions, with a top tier F/A signing and a high draft pick day 1 starter, then he should be fired. This has to be the top priority this year along with upgrading a top pass rushing under tackle DT and an above average F/A cover corner

So, you are proposing that we use our only pick in the top-2 rounds and FA funds that we don’t have on interior OL. I want you nowhere near the GM role.

And then you want a 3T (with our 3rd rounder? like Jaleel Johnson?) and an above average CB ($8m+/yr) on top of that?