Cousins and the End of His Era

Minniman
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Cousins and the End of His Era Oct 16, 2020 9:01:05 GMT -6 Reignman, HunterMorrow, and 1 more like this

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Post by Minniman on Oct 16, 2020 9:01:05 GMT -6

Oct 15, 2020 13:43:08 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Oct 15, 2020 13:01:00 GMT -6 Nordic said:

Perhaps.

However, Dilfer and Johnson at least had a set of stones, something that Cousins seems to be lacking...

I don’t blame Cousins though, this debacle is driven by Zimmer’s lacking the ability to coach an NFL team and Spielman’s failure to invest in the right places...

Zimmer coached an NFL team that won 13 games and went to the NFCCG with Case Keenum as his QB. Spielman put the team around Case that made him look like a viable starter.

Both have their flaws, but those flaws were magnified when Cousins was brought in. Of course, they chose to bring Cousins in, so...

Case Keenum was a stopgap quarterback that had an uncanny ability to avoid the sacks presented by his porous offensive line. His relatively weak arm and that offensive line meant the offense had to be run with smoke and mirrors and depend on the defense to win games for the Vikings. In the end, when the defense faltered, the team was done.

Kirk Cousins, on the other hand, has trouble not only avoiding the sack but reading a defense to see where pressure is coming from. One aspect of great quarterbacks is field presence. Quarterbacks like Aaron Rodger, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady have that. Cousins does not, and he even talked about it in a podcast while praising Rodger's ability to look to the sideline to see if defenders were still on the field to make a quick snap, see the flag, and get a free play. Cousins was amazed that Rodgers could do that which was basically admitting that Kirk could not.

From deep stats, we know that Kirk Cousins is one of the slowest quarterbacks to get the ball out in the NFL. That is his Achilles heal, and that is not a great trait to have when the team he plays on builds its offensive line from castoffs and late pick rookies.

Last Edit: Oct 16, 2020 9:05:05 GMT -6 by Minniman

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Cousins and the End of His Era Oct 16, 2020 9:59:59 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

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Post by Oracle Bone Diviner on Oct 16, 2020 9:59:59 GMT -6

Oct 15, 2020 18:15:41 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Oct 15, 2020 16:27:52 GMT -6 Nordic said:

Maybe, but I’d say that Keenum/Shurmer and Diggs has a lot to do with the success. Problem is, Keenum and Zimmer never meshed, forget how he won games and forget the tools he had in the box... Zimmer didn’t like him and he was going to be gone anyway.

Can you imagine what we could have done with the money that was spent on cousins? Oline is the first thing that comes to mind. And in true fashion, the famous Zimmer “D” caved against philly, completely got worked and Zimmer has no answer.

Maybe Zimmer didn't like Case because he knew he was nothing more than a journeyman backup QB being propped up by good coaching and a talented team?

That is what was going on after all.

If Bill Bellicheck had won 13 games and went to the AFCCG with Case as his QB after losing Brady for the year, it would be used as evidence of his greatness as a HC. But for some reason Vikings fans have this notion that this QB who has been bad every where else he has played, was actually held back here by the coach, and unfairly disliked by him. He gets 0 credit for the season he had with that guy as his QB. I just dont get it.

Who ever said Zimmer held Keenum back? The word was just that he didn't want to keep him, he wanted a nice safe game manager like Teddy

And look what we traded "a journeyman backup QB being propped up by good coaching and a talented team" for...aint nobody ever said Case was an elite QB, but we didn't gain anything when we lost him either

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Cousins and the End of His Era Oct 16, 2020 10:05:43 GMT -6 via mobile Oracle Bone Diviner, Minniman, and 2 more like this

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Post by Nordic on Oct 16, 2020 10:05:43 GMT -6

Oct 15, 2020 21:06:34 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Oct 15, 2020 19:15:45 GMT -6 Nordic said:

Well, how did that work out for him? Talk about continuity? He has the stones to break up a team that had just that? Shows his ignorance and it will be his demise.

It showed good judgement to move on from Case, since Case proved he couldn't repeat what he did in 2017 again. I would have preferred he move on with a guy in the draft or Teddy or both, but based on what Zimmer said that offseason, I am not sure Cousins was the guy he actually wanted.

No it didn’t, Keenum had the same tools as Cousins did with the exception of Shurmer, but such a seasoned QB shouldn’t need such guidance, should he?

All Keenum proved is that, like any other QB in the league, tools need to be there for you to be successful. You’re kidding yourself if the Broncos were an ideal fit for Keenum.

Again, Zimmer didn’t like Keenum, so he had no chance at stereo NC in Minnesota. Funny that Zimmer decided to change out the QB position when it was his shi tty defense that screwed the pooch in the NFCCG. May have been the biggest mistake of his career, and Ricks as well. And again, SHOULD be their demise.

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Cousins and the End of His Era Oct 16, 2020 12:01:54 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Oct 16, 2020 12:01:54 GMT -6

Oct 16, 2020 10:05:43 GMT -6 Nordic said:

Oct 15, 2020 21:06:34 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

It showed good judgement to move on from Case, since Case proved he couldn't repeat what he did in 2017 again. I would have preferred he move on with a guy in the draft or Teddy or both, but based on what Zimmer said that offseason, I am not sure Cousins was the guy he actually wanted.

No it didn’t, Keenum had the same tools as Cousins did with the exception of Shurmer, but such a seasoned QB shouldn’t need such guidance, should he?

All Keenum proved is that, like any other QB in the league, tools need to be there for you to be successful. You’re kidding yourself if the Broncos were an ideal fit for Keenum.

Again, Zimmer didn’t like Keenum, so he had no chance at stereo NC in Minnesota. Funny that Zimmer decided to change out the QB position when it was his shi tty defense that screwed the pooch in the NFCCG. May have been the biggest mistake of his career, and Ricks as well. And again, SHOULD be their demise.

Their biggest mistake was trading for Bradford, the second biggest was signing Cousins. Now if you want to argue we should have signed Case to a similar contract as Denver did and then draft the QBOTF in that 2018 draft, I can totally get behind that. It sounds like you think Case was some sort of long term answer though, when he has proven he wasn't.

In that same year Case had his success, over in the AFC a QB was doing some similar things after years of below average QB play. Blake Bortles actually won 2 playoff games for his team, and played well in his conference championship. His team made the huge mistake of extending him despite that season clearly being an anomaly and only occurred because he had a #1 defense and great WRs. He didn't make it one more season with his team.

Zimmer and Spielman were right to move on from Case, they were just wrong with how they chose to do it.

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Cousins and the End of His Era Oct 16, 2020 12:02:42 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Oct 16, 2020 12:02:42 GMT -6

Oct 16, 2020 9:59:59 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner said:

Oct 15, 2020 18:15:41 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Maybe Zimmer didn't like Case because he knew he was nothing more than a journeyman backup QB being propped up by good coaching and a talented team?

That is what was going on after all.

If Bill Bellicheck had won 13 games and went to the AFCCG with Case as his QB after losing Brady for the year, it would be used as evidence of his greatness as a HC. But for some reason Vikings fans have this notion that this QB who has been bad every where else he has played, was actually held back here by the coach, and unfairly disliked by him. He gets 0 credit for the season he had with that guy as his QB. I just dont get it.

Who ever said Zimmer held Keenum back? The word was just that he didn't want to keep him, he wanted a nice safe game manager like Teddy

And look what we traded "a journeyman backup QB being propped up by good coaching and a talented team" for...aint nobody ever said Case was an elite QB, but we didn't gain anything when we lost him either

So you are saying he wanted to do the best thing for the team? Why are we ripping him then?

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Cousins and the End of His Era Oct 16, 2020 13:15:18 GMT -6 vikingpwr likes this

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Post by andhesloose28 on Oct 16, 2020 13:15:18 GMT -6

Jesus we are still talking about Case..Its simple Case played his best year of football not to mention our defense was top notch..Look what happened when they collapsed at Philly and even second half of Nola game. Case did fit our team better because he could obviously avoid pressure A LOT better than Kirk to mask our terrible Oline. Like any other casual fan the Vikings thought by bringing in Kirk (since hes a better QB) we would automatically be better. We made the right choice letting Case go and not signing him to a crazy deal, but we failed to address our Oline early and often which has been our Achilles heel since 2015 at least

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Cousins and the End of His Era Oct 16, 2020 13:22:43 GMT -6 via Tapatalk whuisman likes this

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Post by giveu1guess on Oct 16, 2020 13:22:43 GMT -6

Oct 16, 2020 10:05:43 GMT -6 Nordic said:

Oct 15, 2020 21:06:34 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

It showed good judgement to move on from Case, since Case proved he couldn't repeat what he did in 2017 again. I would have preferred he move on with a guy in the draft or Teddy or both, but based on what Zimmer said that offseason, I am not sure Cousins was the guy he actually wanted.

No it didn’t, Keenum had the same tools as Cousins did with the exception of Shurmer, but such a seasoned QB shouldn’t need such guidance, should he?

All Keenum proved is that, like any other QB in the league, tools need to be there for you to be successful. You’re kidding yourself if the Broncos were an ideal fit for Keenum.

Again, Zimmer didn’t like Keenum, so he had no chance at stereo NC in Minnesota. Funny that Zimmer decided to change out the QB position when it was his shi tty defense that screwed the pooch in the NFCCG. May have been the biggest mistake of his career, and Ricks as well. And again, SHOULD be their demise.

Spot on. They need to be held responsible. Period.

They decided they will outsmart everyone and get rid of the chemistry we had with Case. Turns out, they're not smart at all.

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Cousins and the End of His Era Oct 16, 2020 14:41:03 GMT -6 via mobile Longship likes this

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Post by mikenessfan on Oct 16, 2020 14:41:03 GMT -6

What I would like to see is a show of hands of who still thinks re-signing cousins to the extension was a good idea. I saw people when it happened who thought it was a smart decision. A lot of people including myself said it would be a huge mistake. Today looking at it I think it is totally obvious that it was a big mistake. But our gm’s historical resume as far as identifying a franchise qb going all the way back to Miami shows it is a big flaw in his working ability. Definitely his biggest sore spot outside of oline.

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Cousins and the End of His Era Oct 16, 2020 15:13:30 GMT -6

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Post by yessir on Oct 16, 2020 15:13:30 GMT -6

Oct 16, 2020 14:41:03 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

What I would like to see is a show of hands of who still thinks re-signing cousins to the extension was a good idea. I saw people when it happened who thought it was a smart decision. A lot of people including myself said it would be a huge mistake. Today looking at it I think it is totally obvious that it was a big mistake. But our gm’s historical resume as far as identifying a franchise qb going all the way back to Miami shows it is a big flaw in his working ability. Definitely his biggest sore spot outside of oline.

he and his contract better not stop us from drafting a top QB in this upcoming draft if we are in position to do that!

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Cousins and the End of His Era Oct 16, 2020 16:34:01 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by mikenessfan on Oct 16, 2020 16:34:01 GMT -6

Oct 16, 2020 15:13:30 GMT -6 yessir said:

Oct 16, 2020 14:41:03 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

What I would like to see is a show of hands of who still thinks re-signing cousins to the extension was a good idea. I saw people when it happened who thought it was a smart decision. A lot of people including myself said it would be a huge mistake. Today looking at it I think it is totally obvious that it was a big mistake. But our gm’s historical resume as far as identifying a franchise qb going all the way back to Miami shows it is a big flaw in his working ability. Definitely his biggest sore spot outside of oline.

he and his contract better not stop us from drafting a top QB in this upcoming draft if we are in position to do that!

Unfortunately I think this team will win more than 3-4 flgames which will put us out of position to get a top young qb. My guess is we still finish with 5 to 6 wins which won’t get us a top 3 to 4 pick.

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Cousins and the End of His Era Oct 17, 2020 8:20:52 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by giveu1guess on Oct 17, 2020 8:20:52 GMT -6

Oct 16, 2020 16:34:01 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

Oct 16, 2020 15:13:30 GMT -6 yessir said:

he and his contract better not stop us from drafting a top QB in this upcoming draft if we are in position to do that!

Unfortunately I think this team will win more than 3-4 flgames which will put us out of position to get a top young qb. My guess is we still finish with 5 to 6 wins which won’t get us a top 3 to 4 pick.

No, it wouldn't put us out of position. But it is always nicer to not have to rely on players dropping to your pick, but rather to have first choice of all the available QBs.

Great GMs find a way to find the guy who is the best fit for their team/philosphy/scheme/coaches/teammates/culture/etc.

Where was Mahomes selected? (A guy you called while still in college...great job) what about Jackson? ARod? Brady? Wilson?

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Cousins and the End of His Era Oct 17, 2020 15:59:58 GMT -6 via mobile giveu1guess likes this

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Post by mikenessfan on Oct 17, 2020 15:59:58 GMT -6

Oct 17, 2020 8:20:52 GMT -6 giveu1guess said:

Oct 16, 2020 16:34:01 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

Unfortunately I think this team will win more than 3-4 flgames which will put us out of position to get a top young qb. My guess is we still finish with 5 to 6 wins which won’t get us a top 3 to 4 pick.

No, it wouldn't put us out of position. But it is always nicer to not have to rely on players dropping to your pick, but rather to have first choice of all the available QBs.

Great GMs find a way to find the guy who is the best fit for their team/philosphy/scheme/coaches/teammates/culture/etc.

Where was Mahomes selected? (A guy you called while still in college...great job) what about Jackson? ARod? Brady? Wilson?

Oh I agree boz... I mean give you. I would also say if we had a new gm who put together and offensive minded hc with good oc that they would be able to figure out who that guy is. With the current regime that certainly isn’t going to happen.

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Cousins and the End of His Era Oct 17, 2020 17:39:52 GMT -6

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Post by Reignman on Oct 17, 2020 17:39:52 GMT -6

Oct 16, 2020 14:41:03 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

What I would like to see is a show of hands of who still thinks re-signing cousins to the extension was a good idea. I saw people when it happened who thought it was a smart decision. A lot of people including myself said it would be a huge mistake.

I was luke warm about it. I knew Case wasn't the answer, and Cousins looked better on paper. I was hesitant about the price tag, but I understood the move and it made sense at the time. We were 13-3, so that suggested we were just an upgrade or 2 away from where we wanted to be. If I remember correctly, there were no other options. Ride with Case another year or bring back Teddy with so man unknowns about his injury. The decision seemed obvious, but I would have been ok with riding Case another year too.

Oct 16, 2020 14:41:03 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

Today looking at it I think it is totally obvious that it was a big mistake.

Well yeah, in hindsight lol. I give them a pass for the original signing, and an A for effort, but I definitely wasn't ok with the extension. That was beyond stupid, especially at that price. We had all the evidence we needed at that point, and we should have let the original deal expire and moved on. Should have drafted a QB by that 2nd year or did a little more to get Sloter promoted to backup.

EDIT: To clarify, I now see you were referring to the re-signing/extension, but my responses above were based on the initial signing. For the official record, I was completely against the re-signing/extension. Luke warm about the initial signing, with a "lets give him a chance" approach. Well we gave him his chance and I think it's pretty clear he's not the answer, so the extension was completely idiotic.

Last Edit: Oct 17, 2020 21:45:01 GMT -6 by Reignman

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

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Cousins and the End of His Era Oct 17, 2020 18:22:31 GMT -6 via mobile Reignman, whuisman, and 1 more like this

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Post by vikingpitbull on Oct 17, 2020 18:22:31 GMT -6

Oct 17, 2020 17:48:24 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Case is starting for who tomorrow? Enough said.

Well with an injury it could be with the Browns. Rick paid a guy a sh*t ton that couldn't beat out RGIII and was let go for Alex Smith and still hasn't won 13 games or been to a championship game. Enough said.

Last Edit: Oct 17, 2020 18:24:22 GMT -6 by vikingpitbull