Is the Vikings' roster better now than last year?

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legendsofthenorth
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Is the Vikings' roster better now than last year? May 10, 2020 20:27:50 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by legendsofthenorth on May 10, 2020 20:27:50 GMT -6

May 10, 2020 20:20:55 GMT -6 Danchat said:

I thought it might be wise to analyze how many of the snaps from the entire 2019 are missing due to players who are no longer on the team. Here are the numbers:

QBs - 100% returning
HBs - 100% returning
FBs - 100% returning
WRs - 62% returning
TEs - 100% returning
Ts - 100% returning
Gs - 63.4% returning
Cs - 100% returning
DEs - 49.8% returning
DTs - 68.5% returning
LBs - 96.1% returning
CBs - 25% returning
Ss - 75% returning
STs - 100% returning

And a rough estimation of the currently planned replacements for those snaps:

WRs - 38% to Justin Jefferson
G - 36.6% to Samia? Will Elflein start again?
DE - Somewhere around 25% more to Odenigbo (Griffen's role) and 25% more to rotational pass rushers like Zettel/Wonnum/others (Weatherly's role)
DT - 31.5% to Pierce, likely more since Joseph missed some time with injury
CB - 75% to Gladney, Dantzler, Hill, others
S - 25% to Metellus, others

I think we will see steps back at WR, DE, CB, and possibly even at S depth - I'm surprised Kearse and Sendejo played that many snaps, though you could count some of those at slot CB. I think DT will be fine, and actually be better with a solution at 3 technique emerging.

So to answer the actual question of this thread... I think the Vikings' roster is less talented in 2020 as compared to 2019. There's certainly more upside here for future seasons, but expecting the team to play better than in 2019 would be a stretch IMO.

You guys crack me up. This is so in depth to prove a point. I would have put a brat on the grill, added some ketchup and mustard and then called'r a day.

Danchat Content Creator Posts: 19,038 Likes: 16,632	Is the Vikings' roster better now than last year? May 10, 2020 20:35:07 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Danchat on May 10, 2020 20:35:07 GMT -6 One more addendum to my post: Total Snaps played by Vikings in 2020: 26,095 Total Snaps lost over the offseason: 7,014 Total Snaps returning: 19,081 Total % of snaps returning in 2020: 73.1%

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Is the Vikings' roster better now than last year? May 10, 2020 20:36:41 GMT -6 Danchat likes this

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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 20:36:41 GMT -6

May 10, 2020 19:40:23 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

When an argument goes on for pages like this, sometimes it is important to take a step back and try to see things from the other person's perspective.

For the people who are adamant about it not being a rebuild, they feel that strongly about it because they do not like the thought of the team having little chance at competing next year as the team is rebuilt. That is understandable, because a season without hope is no fun.

For those who continue to argue it is a rebuild, well they prefer to look at reality than live in a make believe land where replacing 7 starters, only 1 with a veteran free agent, and changing the OC and DC is not a rebuild. It is not a rebuild like Miami or Washington are in the middle of, but it is a rebuild.

I for one am in the camp that they didn't rebuild enough, keeping Kirk Cousins, Reilly Reiff, Pat Elflein and Shamar Stephen around isn't going to be the key to winning a SB in 2-3 seasons when this team has a chance to really compete again. In fact, they probably hurt you chances since you are tying up cap resources and play time in them that could have been used on a younger prospect now with playing time, or in the future with the cap.

It was a half-a$$ed rebuild that will likely keep us in that 8-16th best team in the NFL range for years, but it was a rebuild.

A retool is a "half-assed" rebuild! In a retool, you don't go all in on a rebuild, you just tweak significant elements of your team while keeping it mostly intact. You literally just described something that is not a rebuild and then....called it a rebuild?

Dan's numbers show that most of the team, except for really one position group, is returning.

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Is the Vikings' roster better now than last year? May 10, 2020 20:38:45 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by legendsofthenorth on May 10, 2020 20:38:45 GMT -6

May 10, 2020 20:20:55 GMT -6 Danchat said:

I thought it might be wise to analyze how many of the snaps from the entire 2019 are missing due to players who are no longer on the team. Here are the numbers:

QBs - 100% returning
HBs - 100% returning
FBs - 100% returning
WRs - 58.6% returning
TEs - 100% returning
Ts - 100% returning
Gs - 63.4% returning
Cs - 100% returning
DEs - 49.8% returning
DTs - 68.5% returning
LBs - 96.1% returning
CBs - 25% returning
Ss - 75% returning
STs - 100% returning

And a rough estimation of the currently planned replacements for those snaps:

WRs - 41.4% to Justin Jefferson
G - 36.6% to Samia? Will Elflein start again?
DE - Somewhere around 25% more to Odenigbo (Griffen's role) and 25% more to rotational pass rushers like Zettel/Wonnum/others (Weatherly's role)
DT - 31.5% to Pierce, likely more since Joseph missed some time with injury
CB - 75% to Gladney, Dantzler, Hill, others
S - 25% to Metellus, others

I think we will see steps back at WR, DE, CB, and possibly even at S depth - I'm surprised Kearse and Sendejo played that many snaps, though you could count some of those at slot CB. I think DT will be fine, and actually be better with a solution at 3 technique emerging.

So to answer the actual question of this thread... I think the Vikings' roster is less talented in 2020 as compared to 2019. There's certainly more upside here for future seasons, but expecting the team to play better than in 2019 would be a stretch IMO.

Ok I reviewed this again. You said the team is less talented. Did you mean actually less talented or less experienced? I don't know how you could say less talented yet?

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Is the Vikings' roster better now than last year? May 10, 2020 20:40:58 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on May 10, 2020 20:40:58 GMT -6

May 10, 2020 20:20:55 GMT -6 Danchat said:

I thought it might be wise to analyze how many of the snaps from the entire 2019 are missing due to players who are no longer on the team. Here are the numbers:

QBs - 100% returning
HBs - 100% returning
FBs - 100% returning
WRs - 58.6% returning
TEs - 100% returning
Ts - 100% returning
Gs - 63.4% returning
Cs - 100% returning
DEs - 49.8% returning
DTs - 68.5% returning
LBs - 96.1% returning
CBs - 25% returning
Ss - 75% returning
STs - 100% returning

And a rough estimation of the currently planned replacements for those snaps:

WRs - 41.4% to Justin Jefferson
G - 36.6% to Samia? Will Elflein start again?
DE - Somewhere around 25% more to Odenigbo (Griffen's role) and 25% more to rotational pass rushers like Zettel/Wonnum/others (Weatherly's role)
DT - 31.5% to Pierce, likely more since Joseph missed some time with injury
CB - 75% to Gladney, Dantzler, Hill, others
S - 25% to Metellus, others

I think we will see steps back at WR, DE, CB, and possibly even at S depth - I'm surprised Kearse and Sendejo played that many snaps, though you could count some of those at slot CB. I think DT will be fine, and actually be better with a solution at 3 technique emerging.

So to answer the actual question of this thread... I think the Vikings' roster is less talented in 2020 as compared to 2019. There's certainly more upside here for future seasons, but expecting the team to play better than in 2019 would be a stretch IMO.

Those aren't even close to accurate unless you know who the 2020 starters and how many snaps each sub package will run. It's seriously just a ton of misguided rambling to make it look good for your point. Something in the lines of walls and see what sticks.

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Is the Vikings' roster better now than last year? May 10, 2020 20:42:12 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by legendsofthenorth on May 10, 2020 20:42:12 GMT -6

May 10, 2020 20:35:07 GMT -6 Danchat said:

One more addendum to my post:

Total Snaps played by Vikings in 2020: 26,095
Total Snaps lost over the offseason: 7,014
Total Snaps returning: 19,081

Total % of snaps returning in 2020: 73.1%

How does this compare to a normal NFL team? More? Less?

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Is the Vikings' roster better now than last year? May 10, 2020 20:43:13 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on May 10, 2020 20:43:13 GMT -6

May 10, 2020 20:22:45 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

May 10, 2020 20:14:10 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

That would happen if we had smart owners but it still doesn't change that it is a rebuild. Your definition isn't a guideline.

Infact a retool is gauged by average turnover of players. That average is 13.25 per 53 man roster. It has no bearing on staff. I have already posted this once yet you both ignored it for convenience or?

Just like previously mentioned it's yet another bad decision in the line of many going into 2020 so why should it be overlooked?

Why many things are what they are just shows how inept out owners are at running a team. They may know brick and mortar but they are idiots at running a winning team.

I can see you are passionate about the 13.25 per 53 man and this has nothing do do with rebuild vs retool argument. You can clearly see I think its the weirdest thing ever.

Is that the average player turnover per team every year? To me that seams low.

Also is that free agent signings and/or team drafted and developed players to replace older vets?

I think that stuff is interesting...

Oh boy.... please go back and read.

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Is the Vikings' roster better now than last year? May 10, 2020 20:45:36 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by legendsofthenorth on May 10, 2020 20:45:36 GMT -6

May 10, 2020 20:43:13 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

May 10, 2020 20:22:45 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Oh boy.... please go back and read.

Sorry man. Not trying to be a burden

Where do I go back and find it?

Last Edit: May 10, 2020 20:46:23 GMT -6 by legendsofthenorth

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Is the Vikings' roster better now than last year? May 10, 2020 20:49:24 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 20:49:24 GMT -6

May 10, 2020 20:20:55 GMT -6 Danchat said:

I thought it might be wise to analyze how many of the snaps from the entire 2019 are missing due to players who are no longer on the team. Here are the numbers:

QBs - 100% returning
HBs - 100% returning
FBs - 100% returning
WRs - 58.6% returning
TEs - 100% returning
Ts - 100% returning
Gs - 63.4% returning
Cs - 100% returning
DEs - 49.8% returning
DTs - 68.5% returning
LBs - 96.1% returning
CBs - 25% returning
Ss - 75% returning
STs - 100% returning

And a rough estimation of the currently planned replacements for those snaps:

WRs - 41.4% to Justin Jefferson
G - 36.6% to Samia? Will Elflein start again?
DE - Somewhere around 25% more to Odenigbo (Griffen's role) and 25% more to rotational pass rushers like Zettel/Wonnum/others (Weatherly's role)
DT - 31.5% to Pierce, likely more since Joseph missed some time with injury
CB - 75% to Gladney, Dantzler, Hill, others
S - 25% to Metellus, others

I think we will see steps back at WR, DE, CB, and possibly even at S depth - I'm surprised Kearse and Sendejo played that many snaps, though you could count some of those at slot CB. I think DT will be fine, and actually be better with a solution at 3 technique emerging.

So to answer the actual question of this thread... I think the Vikings' roster is less talented in 2020 as compared to 2019. There's certainly more upside here for future seasons, but expecting the team to play better than in 2019 would be a stretch IMO.

I think WR can improve or should I say passing game with Jefferson, Sharpe, and Bisi improving add in Irv who I feel is ready to take off we good their. CB geez I hope we don't get worse than last year less experienced but high upside. DE concerns me and I don't like the depth at safety.

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Is the Vikings' roster better now than last year? May 10, 2020 20:52:49 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by legendsofthenorth on May 10, 2020 20:52:49 GMT -6

May 10, 2020 20:49:24 GMT -6 @purpledrankreturns said:

May 10, 2020 20:20:55 GMT -6 Danchat said:

I thought it might be wise to analyze how many of the snaps from the entire 2019 are missing due to players who are no longer on the team. Here are the numbers:

QBs - 100% returning
HBs - 100% returning
FBs - 100% returning
WRs - 58.6% returning
TEs - 100% returning
Ts - 100% returning
Gs - 63.4% returning
Cs - 100% returning
DEs - 49.8% returning
DTs - 68.5% returning
LBs - 96.1% returning
CBs - 25% returning
Ss - 75% returning
STs - 100% returning

And a rough estimation of the currently planned replacements for those snaps:

WRs - 41.4% to Justin Jefferson
G - 36.6% to Samia? Will Elflein start again?
DE - Somewhere around 25% more to Odenigbo (Griffen's role) and 25% more to rotational pass rushers like Zettel/Wonnum/others (Weatherly's role)
DT - 31.5% to Pierce, likely more since Joseph missed some time with injury
CB - 75% to Gladney, Dantzler, Hill, others
S - 25% to Metellus, others

I think we will see steps back at WR, DE, CB, and possibly even at S depth - I'm surprised Kearse and Sendejo played that many snaps, though you could count some of those at slot CB. I think DT will be fine, and actually be better with a solution at 3 technique emerging.

So to answer the actual question of this thread... I think the Vikings' roster is less talented in 2020 as compared to 2019. There's certainly more upside here for future seasons, but expecting the team to play better than in 2019 would be a stretch IMO.

I think we will be much worse than last year unless Kirk proves his worth. Just my opinion

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Is the Vikings' roster better now than last year? May 10, 2020 20:53:51 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on May 10, 2020 20:53:51 GMT -6

May 10, 2020 20:45:36 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

May 10, 2020 20:43:13 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Oh boy.... please go back and read.

Sorry man. Not trying to be a burden

Where do I go back and find it?

Time to do something else. Kids are up.

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Is the Vikings' roster better now than last year? May 10, 2020 21:02:31 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 21:02:31 GMT -6

May 10, 2020 20:20:55 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Take out the projections...there are only three position groups out of 14 that have less than 2/3 of their snaps returning. Only two with less than half. This is just stone cold facts about how much of the roster is intact.

Now, we are hoping to put in some inexperienced players, but what this shows is that behind those inexperienced players are players we relied on this year. We didn't slash and burn except for one position group. I would've liked Alexander back, but I don't think any sane person here wanted to match what Waynes got or ever see Rhodes act like he just got a limb amputated on the field over a minor injury again.

Again, this is what some of us have been saying. Most of this team is back. This is a fresh coat of paint and some new windows....not a new house.

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Is the Vikings' roster better now than last year? May 10, 2020 21:18:25 GMT -6 via mobile Danchat likes this

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Post by legendsofthenorth on May 10, 2020 21:18:25 GMT -6

May 10, 2020 20:53:51 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

May 10, 2020 20:45:36 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Sorry man. Not trying to be a burden

Where do I go back and find it?

Time to do something else. Kids are up.

Huh?

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Is the Vikings' roster better now than last year? May 10, 2020 21:34:53 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on May 10, 2020 21:34:53 GMT -6

May 10, 2020 20:38:45 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Ok I reviewed this again. You said the team is less talented. Did you mean actually less talented or less experienced? I don't know how you could say less talented yet?

That's my projection of things. They are objectively less experienced, but my opinion is that they are less talented unless the young players surpass my expectations, which are certainly possible.

May 10, 2020 20:40:58 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Sure, we don't know who's going to win certain jobs and who all the subpackages are going to go to, but most of the returning starters are entrenched in their roles.

Also, how is it "misguided rambling" when I offered no opinion alongside those numbers? I didn't tell you what to think of those numbers except for the guys I thought might take up the missing 26.9% snaps. It's a fact that the guys who made up 73.1% of last year's snaps are on the current roster... whether they will be used to the same extent is up for debate, but it's just one way to look at the returning players. It's not a perfect metric. The fact that you feel you need to discredit it shows me you aren't willing to listen to reason.

May 10, 2020 20:42:12 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

How does this compare to a normal NFL team? More? Less?

Oh boy, that's asking for a lot of research. I will do some looking around but I don't have the time to compile all those numbers!

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Is the Vikings' roster better now than last year? May 10, 2020 21:57:41 GMT -6

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Post by PurpleKoolaid on May 10, 2020 21:57:41 GMT -6

May 10, 2020 17:18:04 GMT -6 Danchat said:

May 10, 2020 13:17:21 GMT -6 @theleviathan said:

You know what the dumbest thing (which...admittedly, you have set that bar HIGH) about this? If this was a rebuild it would put LESS immediate pressure on Spielman and Zimmerman. You want this to be a rebuild so you can call it a failure or the team failure, but a rebuild needs time to fail.

Exactly! A real rebuild would never happen with a GM & HC in the final year of their deal, and there wouldn't be any pressure on them to win a Super Bowl in year one of a rebuild. The entire point of a rebuild is to reconstruct the roster to be a competitor in the future, and it will usually take several years (can be shorter in football like just 2 years, but 3-4+ years in baseball).

May 10, 2020 14:15:24 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

My thoughts are more just questions I would ask.

1. Are they changing leadership?
2. Are they changing cultures?
3. Are they changing processes and procedures, ie gameplans, schemes?
4. Have they gotten rid of the face of the team?
5. Have they gotten rid of all their top tier talent?

Good questions, sir. I would answer them this way:

1: Leadership has not changed
2: Culture has not changed and is unlikely to
3: Offensive scheming remains the same but the playcalling will be changed. Defense is under same scheme and playcaller but will likely have more nuances added.
4: Not sure if they have a true face to the team, but Cousins was extended & Cook isn't going anywhere. I would consider Harrison and Hunter the faces of the defense. So the answer is no.
5: Some top tier talent has left (Diggs & Griffen), but many studs and stars remain on the team.

So, we will have the same crap leadership we have had for the past 6 years (or more). Oh joy. I am so excited.

The Wilfs did ANOTHER half a$$ed job. Why are they such chicken sh!ts? They make a ton of money regardless. why not take a chance and go for the SB now, with real leadership and a GM thats above average. Find someone who will draft a QB. Get rid of the QB we overpaid for because he doesnt want competition. Can you imagine that? Mike Zimmer wont let a good QB near Cousins....somethings got to change, from the top.

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Is the Vikings' roster better now than last year?

Post by legendsofthenorth on May 10, 2020 20:27:50 GMT -6

Post by Danchat on May 10, 2020 20:35:07 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 20:36:41 GMT -6

Post by legendsofthenorth on May 10, 2020 20:38:45 GMT -6

Post by vikingpitbull on May 10, 2020 20:40:58 GMT -6

Post by legendsofthenorth on May 10, 2020 20:42:12 GMT -6

Post by vikingpitbull on May 10, 2020 20:43:13 GMT -6

Post by legendsofthenorth on May 10, 2020 20:45:36 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 20:49:24 GMT -6

Post by legendsofthenorth on May 10, 2020 20:52:49 GMT -6

Post by vikingpitbull on May 10, 2020 20:53:51 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 21:02:31 GMT -6

Post by legendsofthenorth on May 10, 2020 21:18:25 GMT -6

Post by Danchat on May 10, 2020 21:34:53 GMT -6

Post by PurpleKoolaid on May 10, 2020 21:57:41 GMT -6

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