Throwing Picks/Bodies at Offensive Line

slapnut19
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Throwing Picks/Bodies at Offensive Line May 3, 2020 13:35:29 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by slapnut19 on May 3, 2020 13:35:29 GMT -6

May 3, 2020 12:55:28 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

May 3, 2020 12:32:20 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

Its hard to build an oline when you change schemes every year. Since 2014 rick has known the exact type of defensive players to draft because we have had the same system in place and we have done a pretty good job of drafting and developing players on that side of the ball. Now its year 2 with Kubiak and Dennison so let's see how these lineman look

And here come the excuses. Same ones always come to the front.

Rick is in charge of hires and fires of coaches so it's up to him to sign off. If he knows a OC wont fit then don't let Zimmer sign them up. Um this is his 2nd rebuild on D and tons of draft revenue is gone without a trace. You know guys that sucked.

not an excuse. I'm simply saying rick has done a pretty good job drafting defensive talent since 2014 when he has had a specific defense and the same defensive mind telling him what kind of player he's looking for. Now he has that on the offensive side of the ball specifically the oline. That isn't an excuse for past failures. Its simply me as a fan seeing where continuity and having a smart front office could change the narrative.

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Throwing Picks/Bodies at Offensive Line May 3, 2020 13:39:03 GMT -6 coolbreeze44 likes this

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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2020 13:39:03 GMT -6

May 3, 2020 13:31:02 GMT -6 coolbreeze44 said:

May 3, 2020 13:22:31 GMT -6 @purpledrankreturns said:

I see what you saying you need both. Brady and the Pats fell off without weapons. Peyton had lots of weapons Marvin, Eggerin James, Waynes. When Packers won the bowl Rodgers had weapons. It is why Rodgers never reached more bowls because after that they failed to give him the needed weapons to reach his full potential thankfully.

We could argue this one all day. Outside of Gronk, the Patriots won super bowls without great weapons. Over twenty years Peyton did have some good weapons, but he also made a lot of pedestrian receivers look good. The Packers always scored enough points, it was usually the defense that let them down. The point is, if you can't keep your quarterback upright, nothing else really matters. And these championship level teams always found a way to protect the quarterback.

I won't argue it all day we need both. Just saying you need weapons also. What good is it to block and can't get explosive plays we need it all.I did give you examples of great skill players Rams with Kurt Warner is another example. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Peyton had weapons you said I only had one example not true. I respect your opinion though breeze you do bring knowledge to the table all respect bro.

vikingpwr
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Throwing Picks/Bodies at Offensive Line May 3, 2020 13:42:03 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on May 3, 2020 13:42:03 GMT -6

May 2, 2020 23:51:13 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

What I don’t understand is all this stuff I’m seeing people post that they feel Udoh is gong to take 1 of the starting guard spots sometime in the near future. Where is this coming from? From what I remember he played 1 game and did alright. But where is the “hope” coming from? He was a 6th round pick from a small school where he played tackle, not guard. Did the coaching staff try to inflate him to the fans? Was there some advanced stats site that says he is promising after his 1 game? I’m genuinely curious where all this “hope “ is warranted from what I would consider a long shot. I would do backflips if he is the answer to one our terrible guard situation of the last how many years. I’m just curious where this is all coming from though?

www.dailynorseman.com/2020/4/2/21203427/minnesota-vikings-next-man-up-ol-oli-udoh

While Udoh is prototypical for a right tackle, he could also be moved inside to left guard, where his size and length would make it difficult for any defensive tackle to get past him. A move inside to left guard for Udoh may sound like it’s coming from left field, but there is actually a good, comparable precedent for such a move: Kelechi Osemele.

Osemele was drafted out of Iowa State by the Ravens back in 2012. He’s basically the same size and length as Udoh, but somewhat less athletic according to his Combine results. He was probably ahead of Udoh in his development, but still had issues to clean up, and hadn’t faced the toughest competition at Iowa St either.

In any case, he started at right tackle for the Ravens his rookie year in 2012, but was moved to left guard for the Ravens’ playoff run. They won the Super Bowl that year. The following year he continued at left guard, but his season was cut short as he needed back surgery after 7 games.

In 2014, the Ravens hired Gary Kubiak as their new offensive coordinator, and installed his offensive scheme. In his first full season at LG, and first in Kubiak’s scheme, Osemele had the 4th best pass blocking efficiency in the league among guards with at least 100 snaps, and was 6th best in run blocking grade, according to PFF. He continued to be a top 5 guard in both run blocking and pass protection the next couple seasons, and made All-Pro in 2016.

With Gary Kubiak now offensive coordinator for the Vikings, and Rick Dennison offensive line coach, I doubt Udoh’s comparison with Osemele is lost on them. In fact, given their plan to try to bring in Trent Williams, along with the recognized weakness at guard in this year’s draft, and reports of potentially releasing or demoting Pat Elflein, it may be that Udoh is in their plans at left guard.

Size, strength, quick feet, balance, and good awareness/recognition are key qualities in a guard. Udoh has the first four, but probably needs more experience to develop the last a bit more - although he is smart and that will likely come in time.

Having a big, strong presence inside could do wonders for the Vikings offensive line. First, it could cut down on the inside pressures Kirk Cousins has faced the last couple years, and secondly could bolster the Vikings inside running game - and take some of the opposing defense’s focus off the outside zone game. It would also make it less exploitable for teams moving their best pass rushers inside.

The Vikings have not announced any plans to move Udoh inside to guard at this point, and it’s not clear that they will. But in light of their other actions and reporting, it appears they will need to fill two starting guard spots this season, and do not appear to be high on the prospect of draft picks filling those holes either. They have also yet to pick up any starting guards in free agency, and don’t really have the salary cap to do so either.

All that could mean an opportunity for Udoh to land a starting job next season.

Stay tuned.

vikingpwr
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Throwing Picks/Bodies at Offensive Line May 3, 2020 13:44:52 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on May 3, 2020 13:44:52 GMT -6

May 3, 2020 13:32:50 GMT -6 coolbreeze44 said:

May 3, 2020 13:24:32 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

I'm betting on those two guys, Kubiak and Dennison, to finally shut up this fan base about not having a good OL.

It didn't surprise one bit that you brought up one of your all time favorite subjects.....Kalil/Spielman/extension/Carolina.

But VP, you're always betting that and you're always wrong. I'm sorry man, you're a good guy and poster, but you're just not objective enough.

I'm not always betting that. Don't let my history of having a few optimistic views blind you. I'm very objective to a lot of things vikings............

coolbreeze44
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Throwing Picks/Bodies at Offensive Line May 3, 2020 13:47:18 GMT -6

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Post by coolbreeze44 on May 3, 2020 13:47:18 GMT -6

May 3, 2020 13:39:03 GMT -6 @purpledrankreturns said:

May 3, 2020 13:31:02 GMT -6 coolbreeze44 said:

We could argue this one all day. Outside of Gronk, the Patriots won super bowls without great weapons. Over twenty years Peyton did have some good weapons, but he also made a lot of pedestrian receivers look good. The Packers always scored enough points, it was usually the defense that let them down. The point is, if you can't keep your quarterback upright, nothing else really matters. And these championship level teams always found a way to protect the quarterback.

I won't argue it all day we need both. Just saying you need weapons also. What good is it to block and can't get explosive plays we need it all.I did give you examples of great skill players Rams with Kurt Warner is another example. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Peyton had weapons you said I only had one example not true. I respect your opinion though breeze you do bring knowledge to the table all respect bro.

Fair enough. Let me ask you a hypothetical. You're starting a team and you can either take the Chiefs receivers and running backs, or choose any current offensive line. Which way would you go?

vikingpitbull
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Throwing Picks/Bodies at Offensive Line May 3, 2020 13:52:43 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on May 3, 2020 13:52:43 GMT -6

May 3, 2020 13:42:03 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

May 2, 2020 23:51:13 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

What I don’t understand is all this stuff I’m seeing people post that they feel Udoh is gong to take 1 of the starting guard spots sometime in the near future. Where is this coming from? From what I remember he played 1 game and did alright. But where is the “hope” coming from? He was a 6th round pick from a small school where he played tackle, not guard. Did the coaching staff try to inflate him to the fans? Was there some advanced stats site that says he is promising after his 1 game? I’m genuinely curious where all this “hope “ is warranted from what I would consider a long shot. I would do backflips if he is the answer to one our terrible guard situation of the last how many years. I’m just curious where this is all coming from though?

www.dailynorseman.com/2020/4/2/21203427/minnesota-vikings-next-man-up-ol-oli-udoh

While Udoh is prototypical for a right tackle, he could also be moved inside to left guard, where his size and length would make it difficult for any defensive tackle to get past him. A move inside to left guard for Udoh may sound like it’s coming from left field, but there is actually a good, comparable precedent for such a move: Kelechi Osemele.

Osemele was drafted out of Iowa State by the Ravens back in 2012. He’s basically the same size and length as Udoh, but somewhat less athletic according to his Combine results. He was probably ahead of Udoh in his development, but still had issues to clean up, and hadn’t faced the toughest competition at Iowa St either.

In any case, he started at right tackle for the Ravens his rookie year in 2012, but was moved to left guard for the Ravens’ playoff run. They won the Super Bowl that year. The following year he continued at left guard, but his season was cut short as he needed back surgery after 7 games.

In 2014, the Ravens hired Gary Kubiak as their new offensive coordinator, and installed his offensive scheme. In his first full season at LG, and first in Kubiak’s scheme, Osemele had the 4th best pass blocking efficiency in the league among guards with at least 100 snaps, and was 6th best in run blocking grade, according to PFF. He continued to be a top 5 guard in both run blocking and pass protection the next couple seasons, and made All-Pro in 2016.

With Gary Kubiak now offensive coordinator for the Vikings, and Rick Dennison offensive line coach, I doubt Udoh’s comparison with Osemele is lost on them. In fact, given their plan to try to bring in Trent Williams, along with the recognized weakness at guard in this year’s draft, and reports of potentially releasing or demoting Pat Elflein, it may be that Udoh is in their plans at left guard.

Size, strength, quick feet, balance, and good awareness/recognition are key qualities in a guard. Udoh has the first four, but probably needs more experience to develop the last a bit more - although he is smart and that will likely come in time.

Having a big, strong presence inside could do wonders for the Vikings offensive line. First, it could cut down on the inside pressures Kirk Cousins has faced the last couple years, and secondly could bolster the Vikings inside running game - and take some of the opposing defense’s focus off the outside zone game. It would also make it less exploitable for teams moving their best pass rushers inside.

The Vikings have not announced any plans to move Udoh inside to guard at this point, and it’s not clear that they will. But in light of their other actions and reporting, it appears they will need to fill two starting guard spots this season, and do not appear to be high on the prospect of draft picks filling those holes either. They have also yet to pick up any starting guards in free agency, and don’t really have the salary cap to do so either.

All that could mean an opportunity for Udoh to land a starting job next season.

Stay tuned.

You do understand they have about 4 guys that where all T that people hope will transition to G and all in the same mold size wt speed. Udoh is the least athletic of the bunch. Again just because you can type it and it sounds good in theory doesn't make it a sound idea. Again if you want a G get a G.

vikingpwr
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Throwing Picks/Bodies at Offensive Line May 3, 2020 13:57:01 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on May 3, 2020 13:57:01 GMT -6

May 3, 2020 13:52:43 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

You do understand they have about 4 guys that where all T that people hope will transition to G and all in the same mold size wt speed. Udoh is the least athletic of the bunch. Again just because you can type it and it sounds good in theory doesn't make it a sound idea. Again if you want a G get a G.

Don't you have another offensive linemen list to make. Ryan Cook 2006..... (roflmao)

Get with the times bro!

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Throwing Picks/Bodies at Offensive Line May 3, 2020 14:04:46 GMT -6 coolbreeze44 likes this

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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2020 14:04:46 GMT -6

May 3, 2020 13:47:18 GMT -6 coolbreeze44 said:

May 3, 2020 13:39:03 GMT -6 @purpledrankreturns said:

I won't argue it all day we need both. Just saying you need weapons also. What good is it to block and can't get explosive plays we need it all.I did give you examples of great skill players Rams with Kurt Warner is another example. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Peyton had weapons you said I only had one example not true. I respect your opinion though breeze you do bring knowledge to the table all respect bro.

Fair enough. Let me ask you a hypothetical. You're starting a team and you can either take the Chiefs receivers and running backs, or choose any current offensive line. Which way would you go?

Good question! We both know you start a team from both lines so I would say OL. We aren't starting from the ground up however, we already been building. The line does need to get better though and has been killing us but we have a few with hope.We need both I am absolutely not arguing the oline has been atrocious and I am tired of it too. Rick gotta be able to multitask at this point he has been here long enough. He doesn't have the luxury of doing one thing at a time anymore. See I can debate with a grown man who brings substance to a argument. Some people just cry we suck and bring nothing to the table unlike us.

Last Edit: May 3, 2020 14:21:41 GMT -6 by Deleted

IAVike
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Throwing Picks/Bodies at Offensive Line May 3, 2020 14:21:31 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by IAVike on May 3, 2020 14:21:31 GMT -6

May 3, 2020 13:47:18 GMT -6 coolbreeze44 said:

May 3, 2020 13:39:03 GMT -6 @purpledrankreturns said:

I won't argue it all day we need both. Just saying you need weapons also. What good is it to block and can't get explosive plays we need it all.I did give you examples of great skill players Rams with Kurt Warner is another example. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Peyton had weapons you said I only had one example not true. I respect your opinion though breeze you do bring knowledge to the table all respect bro.

Fair enough. Let me ask you a hypothetical. You're starting a team and you can either take the Chiefs receivers and running backs, or choose any current offensive line. Which way would you go?

WRs, TEs and Rbs without question

vikingbill
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Throwing Picks/Bodies at Offensive Line May 3, 2020 14:24:37 GMT -6 Danchat and vikingpwr like this

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Post by vikingbill on May 3, 2020 14:24:37 GMT -6

May 3, 2020 13:52:43 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

May 3, 2020 13:42:03 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

www.dailynorseman.com/2020/4/2/21203427/minnesota-vikings-next-man-up-ol-oli-udoh

While Udoh is prototypical for a right tackle, he could also be moved inside to left guard, where his size and length would make it difficult for any defensive tackle to get past him. A move inside to left guard for Udoh may sound like it’s coming from left field, but there is actually a good, comparable precedent for such a move: Kelechi Osemele.

Osemele was drafted out of Iowa State by the Ravens back in 2012. He’s basically the same size and length as Udoh, but somewhat less athletic according to his Combine results. He was probably ahead of Udoh in his development, but still had issues to clean up, and hadn’t faced the toughest competition at Iowa St either.

In any case, he started at right tackle for the Ravens his rookie year in 2012, but was moved to left guard for the Ravens’ playoff run. They won the Super Bowl that year. The following year he continued at left guard, but his season was cut short as he needed back surgery after 7 games.

In 2014, the Ravens hired Gary Kubiak as their new offensive coordinator, and installed his offensive scheme. In his first full season at LG, and first in Kubiak’s scheme, Osemele had the 4th best pass blocking efficiency in the league among guards with at least 100 snaps, and was 6th best in run blocking grade, according to PFF. He continued to be a top 5 guard in both run blocking and pass protection the next couple seasons, and made All-Pro in 2016.

With Gary Kubiak now offensive coordinator for the Vikings, and Rick Dennison offensive line coach, I doubt Udoh’s comparison with Osemele is lost on them. In fact, given their plan to try to bring in Trent Williams, along with the recognized weakness at guard in this year’s draft, and reports of potentially releasing or demoting Pat Elflein, it may be that Udoh is in their plans at left guard.

Size, strength, quick feet, balance, and good awareness/recognition are key qualities in a guard. Udoh has the first four, but probably needs more experience to develop the last a bit more - although he is smart and that will likely come in time.

Having a big, strong presence inside could do wonders for the Vikings offensive line. First, it could cut down on the inside pressures Kirk Cousins has faced the last couple years, and secondly could bolster the Vikings inside running game - and take some of the opposing defense’s focus off the outside zone game. It would also make it less exploitable for teams moving their best pass rushers inside.

The Vikings have not announced any plans to move Udoh inside to guard at this point, and it’s not clear that they will. But in light of their other actions and reporting, it appears they will need to fill two starting guard spots this season, and do not appear to be high on the prospect of draft picks filling those holes either. They have also yet to pick up any starting guards in free agency, and don’t really have the salary cap to do so either.

All that could mean an opportunity for Udoh to land a starting job next season.

Stay tuned.

You do understand they have about 4 guys that where all T that people hope will transition to G and all in the same mold size wt speed. Udoh is the least athletic of the bunch. Again just because you can type it and it sounds good in theory doesn't make it a sound idea. Again if you want a G get a G.

A lot of college T's move inside. Osomele is a great example.
There is also Eric Flowers. Drafted high to play LT but was awful. Changed teams and they moved him inside and he was good enough to get re-signed to a rich contract.

Another guy that could slide in at LG is Collins.

Danchat
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Throwing Picks/Bodies at Offensive Line May 3, 2020 14:26:29 GMT -6 IAVike likes this

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Post by Danchat on May 3, 2020 14:26:29 GMT -6

I see some are claiming that NFL guards have to play guard in college in order to have a successful career. Let's take a look at the background of PFF's top 10 ranked guards:

(player - college background)
Brandon Brooks - 1 year at LT, 1 year at LG
Quenton Nelson - 2 years at LG
Zach Martin - 4 years at LT
Joe Thuney - 1 game at RT, 1 game at RG, 10 games at LT, 1 year of LG and 1 year of LT
Rodger Saffold - 4 years at LT
Kevin Zeitler - 3/4 years at RG
Larry Warford -3 years at RG
Shaq Mason - 4 years at RG
Brandon Scherff - 3 years at LT
Joel Bitonio - 3 years at LT

The reality is, many college teams play their best guy at LT, and you can get away with guard-like prospects at LT in the college level. Plenty of NFL guards transition from left tackle to either guard spot successfully.

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Throwing Picks/Bodies at Offensive Line May 3, 2020 14:27:14 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2020 14:27:14 GMT -6

May 3, 2020 13:24:32 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

It didn't surprise one bit that you brought up one of your all time favorite subjects.....Kalil/Spielman/extension/Carolina.

It shouldn't surprise you at all, because that was exactly the topic being discussed.......

vikingpitbull
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Throwing Picks/Bodies at Offensive Line May 3, 2020 14:28:58 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on May 3, 2020 14:28:58 GMT -6

May 3, 2020 14:24:37 GMT -6 vikingbill said:

May 3, 2020 13:52:43 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

You do understand they have about 4 guys that where all T that people hope will transition to G and all in the same mold size wt speed. Udoh is the least athletic of the bunch. Again just because you can type it and it sounds good in theory doesn't make it a sound idea. Again if you want a G get a G.

A lot of college T's move inside. Osomele is a great example.
There is also Eric Flowers. Drafted high to play LT but was awful. Changed teams and they moved him inside and he was good enough to get re-signed to a rich contract.

Another guy that could slide in at LG is Collins.

Exception vs rule. A lot more fail and we have many years of proof.

vikingpwr Living Legend Posts: 21,398 Likes: 4,607	Throwing Picks/Bodies at Offensive Line May 3, 2020 14:30:21 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by vikingpwr on May 3, 2020 14:30:21 GMT -6 May 3, 2020 14:24:37 GMT -6 vikingbill said: Another guy that could slide in at LG is Collins. That's another guy that if healthy could push for a spot on the roster. Versatile.

IAVike
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Throwing Picks/Bodies at Offensive Line May 3, 2020 14:31:10 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by IAVike on May 3, 2020 14:31:10 GMT -6

May 3, 2020 14:26:29 GMT -6 Danchat said:

I see some are claiming that NFL guards have to play guard in college in order to have a successful career. Let's take a look at the background of PFF's top 10 ranked guards:

(player - college background)
Brandon Brooks - 1 year at LT, 1 year at LG
Quenton Nelson - 2 years at LG
Zach Martin - 4 years at LT
Joe Thuney - 1 game at RT, 1 game at RG, 10 games at LT, 1 year of LG and 1 year of LT
Rodger Saffold - 4 years at LT
Kevin Zeitler - 3/4 years at RG
Larry Warford -3 years at RG
Shaq Mason - 4 years at RG
Brandon Scherff - 3 years at LT
Joel Bitonio - 3 years at LT

The reality is, many college teams play their best guy at LT, and you can get away with guard-like prospects at LT in the college level. Plenty of NFL guards transition from left tackle to either guard spot successfully.

Does this mean if they are good they are going to be good!!! Good post

Have been saying the same thing with WRs. If they are good they will be good whether its slot or outside.