Reality check: Kirk Cousins has passed up Rodgers

comet52
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Reality check: Kirk Cousins has passed up Rodgers Jun 29, 2020 18:28:37 GMT -6

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Post by comet52 on Jun 29, 2020 18:28:37 GMT -6

The Vikings are in the Super Bowl next February (ok, I know, pure pipe dream but bear with me). It's the 4th quarter, 2 minutes to go and we are down 4 and need a td to take the lead and win. Kirk and the team have first and 10 at their own 25.

The sky opens up and the light of god beams down on you as you sit in your living room nervous as hell and god speaks to you: "ATTENTION VIKINGS FAN, THIS IS A ONCE IN HISTORY OFFER. YOU CAN STICK WITH KIRK COUSINS HERE, OR I WILL CHANGE REALITY SO THAT AARON RODGERS IS YOUR QB FOR THIS DRIVE. NO ONE WILL KNOW THE DIFFERENCE, BECAUSE I'LL PUT AARON'S MIND AND BODY INTO KIRK'S UNI AND MAKE HIM LOOK LIKE KIRK. AARON WILL BELIEVE HE'S A VIKING AND DO HIS BEST TO LEAD YOU TO A TD. AFTERWARDS I'LL TURN KIRK BACK INTO KIRK, SEND AARON BACK TO GREEN BAY, AND NO ONE IN THE UNIVERSE EXCEPT YOU WILL KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. MAKE YOUR CHOICE!

Then you start to tell god about all these great stats and how derp derp dorp they prove Kirk is better and yada yada and he says FORGET IT!

But I don't do that if it's me, I choose Rodgers 7 days a week and especially on Sunday. How about you, who do you choose?

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vikingpwr
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Reality check: Kirk Cousins has passed up Rodgers Jun 29, 2020 18:49:30 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on Jun 29, 2020 18:49:30 GMT -6

Jun 29, 2020 14:57:09 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Kind of sad that they hit the level of Cousins at QB and want to move on, while we give that level of QB an extension.

What level is Cousins after he leads us to a Super Bowl win?

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Reality check: Kirk Cousins has passed up Rodgers Jun 29, 2020 18:53:17 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on Jun 29, 2020 18:53:17 GMT -6

Jun 29, 2020 18:28:37 GMT -6 comet52 said:

The Vikings are in the Super Bowl next February (ok, I know, pure pipe dream but bear with me). It's the 4th quarter, 2 minutes to go and we are down 4 and need a td to take the lead and win. Kirk and the team have first and 10 at their own 25.

The sky opens up and the light of god beams down on you as you sit in your living room nervous as hell and god speaks to you: "ATTENTION VIKINGS FAN, THIS IS A ONCE IN HISTORY OFFER. YOU CAN STICK WITH KIRK COUSINS HERE, OR I WILL CHANGE REALITY SO THAT AARON RODGERS IS YOUR QB FOR THIS DRIVE. NO ONE WILL KNOW THE DIFFERENCE, BECAUSE I'LL PUT AARON'S MIND AND BODY INTO KIRK'S UNI AND MAKE HIM LOOK LIKE KIRK. AARON WILL BELIEVE HE'S A VIKING AND DO HIS BEST TO LEAD YOU TO A TD. AFTERWARDS I'LL TURN KIRK BACK INTO KIRK, SEND AARON BACK TO GREEN BAY, AND NO ONE IN THE UNIVERSE EXCEPT YOU WILL KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. MAKE YOUR CHOICE!

Then you start to tell god about all these great stats and how derp derp dorp they prove Kirk is better and yada yada and he says FORGET IT!

But I don't do that if it's me, I choose Rodgers 7 days a week and especially on Sunday. How about you, who do you choose?

I choose my boy Kirk because Aaron will likely fall and break his clavicle again. (roflmao)

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,661 Likes: 31,587 Fan Since: 1998	Reality check: Kirk Cousins has passed up Rodgers Jul 8, 2020 13:20:50 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Jul 8, 2020 13:20:50 GMT -6

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Reality check: Kirk Cousins has passed up Rodgers Jul 9, 2020 7:06:16 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Jul 9, 2020 7:06:16 GMT -6

Jul 8, 2020 13:20:50 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Worse surrounding talent?

2015 and 2016 I take Washington's offense over GB's all day every day (outside of QB of course). Pierre Garcon and DeSean Jackson, versus the Packers WR corp lead by a guy who was cut by the Giants. Great lines both those years as well.

2017 Rodgers probably would have had more talent, but he was hurt for most of the year. 2018 and 2019 though? Cousins was playing with guys who made a backup in 2017 look like a MVP. Rodgers had a very overrated WR in Adams and that is about it.

Just another deluded apologist tearing down the rest of the team he is supposedly a fan of to defend his QB.

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Reality check: Kirk Cousins has passed up Rodgers Jul 9, 2020 7:35:03 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Funkytown on Jul 9, 2020 7:35:03 GMT -6

Jul 9, 2020 7:06:16 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Just another deluded apologist tearing down the rest of the team he is supposedly a fan of to defend his QB.

Ben Baldwin is a big analytics guy. He covers the Seahawks for The Athletic.

I'm not sure he's a Vikings fan or a Cousins apologist.

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Reality check: Kirk Cousins has passed up Rodgers Jul 9, 2020 7:46:42 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Jul 9, 2020 7:46:42 GMT -6

Jul 9, 2020 7:35:03 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Jul 9, 2020 7:06:16 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Just another deluded apologist tearing down the rest of the team he is supposedly a fan of to defend his QB.

Ben Baldwin is a big analytics guy. He covers the Seahawks for The Athletic.

I'm not sure he's a Vikings fan or a Cousins apologist.

Not Baldwin, Olson, who said Cousins was beating Rodgers with lesser talent around him. That couldn't be further from the truth. Cousins has been in a great spot to put up numbers every year but the year he and Rodgers don't overlap, 2017.

Last Edit: Jul 9, 2020 7:48:31 GMT -6 by whoskmoon

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Reality check: Kirk Cousins has passed up Rodgers Jul 9, 2020 8:30:05 GMT -6

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Post by Funkytown on Jul 9, 2020 8:30:05 GMT -6

Jul 9, 2020 7:46:42 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Not Baldwin, Olson, who said Cousins was beating Rodgers with lesser talent around him. That couldn't be further from the truth. Cousins has been in a great spot to put up numbers every year but the year he and Rodgers don't overlap, 2017.

Come on now. What Olson was agreeing with the most was the "Kirk Cousins has been more efficient than Aaron Rodgers over the past 5 seasons" - as you see by him showing the statistics. The "worse surrounding talent" part is a bit more subjective, and he never really went into it much. Man, you're rough on Cousins. lol.

Last Edit: Jul 9, 2020 8:36:54 GMT -6 by Funkytown

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Reality check: Kirk Cousins has passed up Rodgers Jul 9, 2020 8:52:37 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Jul 9, 2020 8:52:37 GMT -6

Jul 9, 2020 8:30:05 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Jul 9, 2020 7:46:42 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Not Baldwin, Olson, who said Cousins was beating Rodgers with lesser talent around him. That couldn't be further from the truth. Cousins has been in a great spot to put up numbers every year but the year he and Rodgers don't overlap, 2017.

Come on now. What Olson was agreeing with the most was the "Kirk Cousins has been more efficient than Aaron Rodgers over the past 5 seasons" - as you see by him showing the statistics. The "worse surrounding talent" part is a bit more subjective, and he never really went into it much. Man, you're rough on Cousins. lol.

This was less about Cousins and more about my hatred of the Packers. That overall team is not very good and the only reason they have any success is because they lucked into Aaron Rodgers.

To say the 2015, 2016, 2018 and 2019 offenses Cousins played on had less talent than those Packer teams is not subjective, it is dishonest and gives the Packer organization way too much credit.

comet52
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Reality check: Kirk Cousins has passed up Rodgers Jul 9, 2020 9:41:24 GMT -6

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Post by comet52 on Jul 9, 2020 9:41:24 GMT -6

This is just more pure Kirk Cousins comic relief. Aaron Rodgers is now in late-career decline so out of the woodwork comes "oh look Kirk's stats, Kirk's stats!" As if anyone in the league would have said 5 years ago, "Yeah, give me Cousins for the next 5 years instead of Rodgers, that's who gives me the best shot at the SB." It's laughable.

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Reality check: Kirk Cousins has passed up Rodgers Jul 9, 2020 9:46:51 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Jul 9, 2020 9:46:51 GMT -6

Jul 9, 2020 9:41:24 GMT -6 comet52 said:

This is just more pure Kirk Cousins comic relief. Aaron Rodgers is now in late-career decline so out of the woodwork comes "oh look Kirk's stats, Kirk's stats!" As if anyone in the league would have said 5 years ago, "Yeah, give me Cousins for the next 5 years instead of Rodgers, that's who gives me the best shot at the SB." It's laughable.

Would anyone choose Cousins over Rodgers even today in his "decline"?

Was the 2019 Packer team so much better than the Vikings' 2019 team that they won 3 more games and further in the playoffs despite a lesser QB?

comet52
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Reality check: Kirk Cousins has passed up Rodgers Jul 9, 2020 10:08:00 GMT -6 suncoastvike likes this

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Post by comet52 on Jul 9, 2020 10:08:00 GMT -6

Jul 9, 2020 9:46:51 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Jul 9, 2020 9:41:24 GMT -6 comet52 said:

This is just more pure Kirk Cousins comic relief. Aaron Rodgers is now in late-career decline so out of the woodwork comes "oh look Kirk's stats, Kirk's stats!" As if anyone in the league would have said 5 years ago, "Yeah, give me Cousins for the next 5 years instead of Rodgers, that's who gives me the best shot at the SB." It's laughable.

Would anyone choose Cousins over Rodgers even today in his "decline"?

Was the 2019 Packer team so much better than the Vikings' 2019 team that they won 3 more games and further in the playoffs despite a lesser QB?

Yup. You could look at the Packer game at US Bank late season to clarify things completely. The Vikings stormed out of the gate defensively and had Rodgers and the Pack on their heels but despite 2 fumbles, an interception and two 3 and outs the Pack only trailed 10-9 at halftime and Rodgers had thrown for 156 yards to Cousins 39. Cousins had 7 third/fourth down attempts and completed 2 both to Diggs:

3-5-GB 5 (13:18) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass incomplete short left to C.Ham.
3-5-MIN 14 (7:48) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short right to S.Diggs to MIN 22 for 8 yards (T.Williams; R.Gary).
3-5-MIN 27 (6:16) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass incomplete deep right to A.Thielen.
3-12-MIN 23 (:41) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass incomplete short left to K.Rudolph (K.Clark)
3-5-GB 21 (13:39) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass deep right to S.Diggs for 21 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
4-4-GB 42 (2:42) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass incomplete deep left to A.Thielen.
3-5-MIN 15 (1:06) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass incomplete short right to L.Treadwell (T.Williams).

It was clear to anyone who isn't blind that Cousins was throwing away the opportunities the defense gave and in the 2nd half Rodgers took advantage and dealt Mike Zimmer yet another loss in a game that really mattered.

I'm here for entertainment purposes only

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Reality check: Kirk Cousins has passed up Rodgers Jul 9, 2020 10:40:21 GMT -6 Danchat likes this

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Post by Funkytown on Jul 9, 2020 10:40:21 GMT -6

Jul 9, 2020 9:46:51 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Jul 9, 2020 9:41:24 GMT -6 comet52 said:

This is just more pure Kirk Cousins comic relief. Aaron Rodgers is now in late-career decline so out of the woodwork comes "oh look Kirk's stats, Kirk's stats!" As if anyone in the league would have said 5 years ago, "Yeah, give me Cousins for the next 5 years instead of Rodgers, that's who gives me the best shot at the SB." It's laughable.

Would anyone choose Cousins over Rodgers even today in his "decline"?

Was the 2019 Packer team so much better than the Vikings' 2019 team that they won 3 more games and further in the playoffs despite a lesser QB?

Some might, but probably not many.

But they looked about the same against the Niners, huh?

The first match-up, Rodgers had a career-low 3.15 yards per attempt in a 37-8 loss. That first half in the playoffs was just as ugly. It took Rodgers 18 attempts before he converted his first third down against the Niners' D. That's hideous.

This is why we need to see Cousins compared to his peers against common opponents. It's so easy to say that Cousins looked like crap versus a certain defense, but if other good/great QBs are looking just as crappy or worse, then it doesn't say as much about Cousins as you think it does.

suncoastvike
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Reality check: Kirk Cousins has passed up Rodgers Jul 9, 2020 10:57:13 GMT -6

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Post by suncoastvike on Jul 9, 2020 10:57:13 GMT -6

Jul 9, 2020 10:08:00 GMT -6 comet52 said:

Jul 9, 2020 9:46:51 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Would anyone choose Cousins over Rodgers even today in his "decline"?

Was the 2019 Packer team so much better than the Vikings' 2019 team that they won 3 more games and further in the playoffs despite a lesser QB?

Yup. You could look at the Packer game at US Bank late season to clarify things completely. The Vikings stormed out of the gate defensively and had Rodgers and the Pack on their heels but despite 2 fumbles, an interception and two 3 and outs the Pack only trailed 10-9 at halftime and Rodgers had thrown for 156 yards to Cousins 39. Cousins had 7 third/fourth down attempts and completed 2 both to Diggs:

3-5-GB 5 (13:18) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass incomplete short left to C.Ham.
3-5-MIN 14 (7:48) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short right to S.Diggs to MIN 22 for 8 yards (T.Williams; R.Gary).
3-5-MIN 27 (6:16) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass incomplete deep right to A.Thielen.
3-12-MIN 23 (:41) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass incomplete short left to K.Rudolph (K.Clark)
3-5-GB 21 (13:39) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass deep right to S.Diggs for 21 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
4-4-GB 42 (2:42) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass incomplete deep left to A.Thielen.
3-5-MIN 15 (1:06) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass incomplete short right to L.Treadwell (T.Williams).

It was clear to anyone who isn't blind that Cousins was throwing away the opportunities the defense gave and in the 2nd half Rodgers took advantage and dealt Mike Zimmer yet another loss in a game that really mattered.

Yeah that one hurt bad. I try not to get angry over games but this one got to me. Look I know it was only a slim chance of catching them. At least stop them from celebrating the division on your field. Mike and Kirk both need to be better in these games.

If being a Viking fan was easy ~ everyone would do it.

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Reality check: Kirk Cousins has passed up Rodgers Jul 9, 2020 11:07:17 GMT -6 Funkytown and suncoastvike like this

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Post by whoskmoon on Jul 9, 2020 11:07:17 GMT -6

Jul 9, 2020 10:40:21 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Jul 9, 2020 9:46:51 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Would anyone choose Cousins over Rodgers even today in his "decline"?

Was the 2019 Packer team so much better than the Vikings' 2019 team that they won 3 more games and further in the playoffs despite a lesser QB?

Some might, but probably not many.

But they looked about the same against the Niners, huh?

The first match-up, Rodgers had a career-low 3.15 yards per attempt in a 37-8 loss. That first half in the playoffs was just as ugly. It took Rodgers 18 attempts before he converted his first third down against the Niners' D. That's hideous.

This is why we need to see Cousins compared to his peers against common opponents. It's so easy to say that Cousins looked like crap versus a certain defense, but if other good/great QBs are looking just as crappy or worse, then it doesn't say as much about Cousins as you think it does.

Neither the Vikings or the Packers had an answer for the 9ers this year, true.

What about other good defenses the two faced though? Against Bears they both stunk. Against the Vikings, Rodgers had a good game in the first meeting, a bad one in the second. Against KC he was brilliant.

To your point, Cousins is not the only QB to struggle at times against good defenses. He just consistently struggles more. In a 16 game season, Rodgers being more successful in 2 more games against good D's was the difference between needing that week 17 win in Chicago for a first round bye, and having nothing to play for.

I think there is probably truth to Rodger's decline. The Packers went out and traded up in the first to draft the QB we should have drafted and wouldn't have done that if everything was great at the QB. It is just that even in his decline, Rodgers is still a bigger impact player than Cousins. Or at least he is in games where his team needs him to be that impact guy.