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vikingpitbull
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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 12, 2019 11:21:55 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on Dec 12, 2019 11:21:55 GMT -6

Dec 12, 2019 10:44:11 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Dec 12, 2019 9:49:09 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

With Washington he was never extended because he always wanted more money than they were willing to give.

He refused to sign a deal in free agency with anyone unless it was fully guaranteed.

NO QB outside of Brady takes less than they are worth when getting contract extensions.

You can live in a fantasy world where Cousins has proven his worth and signs a team friendly deal, or you can live in reality.

Washington never offered him a reasonable long term deal.

www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bruce-allen-redskins-offered-kirk-cousins-53-million-but-he-prefers-franchise-tag/

Show me 3 QB's making the same money that Cousins is that have better numbers. Stafford? Goff? Rodgers? Brees? 4,000 yards 28 TD's 3 INT. Yeah he sucks. It's not just about the QB when it comes to wins and losses.

But since you are pushing it. Who do you want?

He never won more than 9 games or a playoff game with Washington. The Redskins are a terrible team to look at with good decision making of personnel.

You want FF stats or real world production that matter as a barometer?

You cant cherry pick bits of a circular argument. Get into the meat of good and bad and we can talk.

How many winning teams has he beaten
How many playoff wins
How many clutch comeback when he had the ball in his hands
How many SB has he been to
How many primetime games has he won
Is he big when it matters or small.

You want Matt Stafford or Drew Brees? Both could be looked at as being productive but it matters what where and when.

Kirk has always been a good FF pick but has yet to be worth it in real life.

You cant keep blaming everyone or everything other than.

If every QB had everything they would need to succeed then it would be pretty easy to get a QB. There are reasons why some are just better.

suncoastvike Moderator Some say I'm too laid back. Really, I'm just too lazy to argue with them. Posts: 10,643 Likes: 7,202	Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 12, 2019 11:32:29 GMT -6 NoresemanSam likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by suncoastvike on Dec 12, 2019 11:32:29 GMT -6 Sounds good... I'll get back to you after the holidays.
	If being a Viking fan was easy ~ everyone would do it.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 12, 2019 13:12:07 GMT -6 NoresemanSam likes this

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Post by Raptorman on Dec 12, 2019 13:12:07 GMT -6

Dec 12, 2019 11:21:55 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Dec 12, 2019 10:44:11 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Washington never offered him a reasonable long term deal.

www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bruce-allen-redskins-offered-kirk-cousins-53-million-but-he-prefers-franchise-tag/

Show me 3 QB's making the same money that Cousins is that have better numbers. Stafford? Goff? Rodgers? Brees? 4,000 yards 28 TD's 3 INT. Yeah he sucks. It's not just about the QB when it comes to wins and losses.

But since you are pushing it. Who do you want?

He never won more than 9 games or a playoff game with Washington. The Redskins are a terrible team to look at with good decision making of personnel.

You want FF stats or real world production that matter as a barometer?

You cant cherry pick bits of a circular argument. Get into the meat of good and bad and we can talk.

How many winning teams has he beaten
How many playoff wins
How many clutch comeback when he had the ball in his hands
How many SB has he been to
How many primetime games has he won
Is he big when it matters or small.

You want Matt Stafford or Drew Brees? Both could be looked at as being productive but it matters what where and when.

Kirk has always been a good FF pick but has yet to be worth it in real life.

You cant keep blaming everyone or everything other than.

If every QB had everything they would need to succeed then it would be pretty easy to get a QB. There are reasons why some are just better.

Once again, Cousins is solely to blame for what went on in DC. You talk about cherry picking bits. That is exactly what you are doing. Cherry picking nothing but Wins and losses. Ignoring other factors that went into the Skins wins and losses.

These are Cousins wins and losses in Washington depending on how many points per game the defense gave up. This is about par on course with wins and losses of every QB in the league with the same defensive ppg. Some QB's do better in certain areas, but overall, Cousins is not outside the norm.

Def PPG    	W	L 	T

18 or lower	11	2	0

19 to 29	16	10	1

29 + 	         1	19	0

Don't believe me? Pick any QB and I will show his numbers.

BTW, How many Super Bowls has he been too?? You do realize you just limited the number of quality QB in the league to 6. Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Goff, Wilson, and Foles.

So lets take Foles.


PPG	W	L

18 less	11	3

19-29	11	9

29+	4	10

But he's been to Super Bowl so he has to be better than Cousins.

So, let's add Aaron Rodgers to the mix. Since 2012.

Def PPG	         W	L 	T
18 or lower	33	3	0
19 to 29	30	11	1
29 + 	         5	25	0

Once again, who do you want? Better yet, Name a QB that wins more than 25% of the time when his defense scores 29 points or more per game. Just one. You can't. Because they don't exist.

Last Edit: Dec 12, 2019 15:30:29 GMT -6 by Raptorman

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

vikingpitbull
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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 12, 2019 16:27:43 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on Dec 12, 2019 16:27:43 GMT -6

Raptorman
Again from above just in case you missed...

You cant keep blaming everyone or everything other than.

If every QB had everything they would need to succeed then it would be pretty easy to get a QB. There are reasons why some are just better.

6
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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 12, 2019 18:58:11 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by 6 on Dec 12, 2019 18:58:11 GMT -6

Dec 12, 2019 13:12:07 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Dec 12, 2019 11:21:55 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

He never won more than 9 games or a playoff game with Washington. The Redskins are a terrible team to look at with good decision making of personnel.

You want FF stats or real world production that matter as a barometer?

You cant cherry pick bits of a circular argument. Get into the meat of good and bad and we can talk.

How many winning teams has he beaten
How many playoff wins
How many clutch comeback when he had the ball in his hands
How many SB has he been to
How many primetime games has he won
Is he big when it matters or small.

You want Matt Stafford or Drew Brees? Both could be looked at as being productive but it matters what where and when.

Kirk has always been a good FF pick but has yet to be worth it in real life.

You cant keep blaming everyone or everything other than.

If every QB had everything they would need to succeed then it would be pretty easy to get a QB. There are reasons why some are just better.

Once again, Cousins is solely to blame for what went on in DC. You talk about cherry picking bits. That is exactly what you are doing. Cherry picking nothing but Wins and losses. Ignoring other factors that went into the Skins wins and losses.

These are Cousins wins and losses in Washington depending on how many points per game the defense gave up. This is about par on course with wins and losses of every QB in the league with the same defensive ppg. Some QB's do better in certain areas, but overall, Cousins is not outside the norm.

Def PPG    	W	L 	T

18 or lower	11	2	0

19 to 29	16	10	1

29 + 	         1	19	0

Don't believe me? Pick any QB and I will show his numbers.

BTW, How many Super Bowls has he been too?? You do realize you just limited the number of quality QB in the league to 6. Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Goff, Wilson, and Foles.

So lets take Foles.


PPG	W	L

18 less	11	3

19-29	11	9

29+	4	10

But he's been to Super Bowl so he has to be better than Cousins.

So, let's add Aaron Rodgers to the mix. Since 2012.

Def PPG	         W	L 	T
18 or lower	33	3	0
19 to 29	30	11	1
29 + 	         5	25	0

Once again, who do you want? Better yet, Name a QB that wins more than 25% of the time when his defense scores 29 points or more per game. Just one. You can't. Because they don't exist.

Aaron Rodgers is the qb i want, yesterday, today, tomorrow and the day after that.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 12, 2019 18:59:37 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by whoskmoon on Dec 12, 2019 18:59:37 GMT -6

Dec 12, 2019 13:12:07 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Dec 12, 2019 11:21:55 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

He never won more than 9 games or a playoff game with Washington. The Redskins are a terrible team to look at with good decision making of personnel.

You want FF stats or real world production that matter as a barometer?

You cant cherry pick bits of a circular argument. Get into the meat of good and bad and we can talk.

How many winning teams has he beaten
How many playoff wins
How many clutch comeback when he had the ball in his hands
How many SB has he been to
How many primetime games has he won
Is he big when it matters or small.

You want Matt Stafford or Drew Brees? Both could be looked at as being productive but it matters what where and when.

Kirk has always been a good FF pick but has yet to be worth it in real life.

You cant keep blaming everyone or everything other than.

If every QB had everything they would need to succeed then it would be pretty easy to get a QB. There are reasons why some are just better.

Once again, Cousins is solely to blame for what went on in DC. You talk about cherry picking bits. That is exactly what you are doing. Cherry picking nothing but Wins and losses. Ignoring other factors that went into the Skins wins and losses.

These are Cousins wins and losses in Washington depending on how many points per game the defense gave up. This is about par on course with wins and losses of every QB in the league with the same defensive ppg. Some QB's do better in certain areas, but overall, Cousins is not outside the norm.

Def PPG    	W	L 	T

18 or lower	11	2	0

19 to 29	16	10	1

29 + 	         1	19	0

Don't believe me? Pick any QB and I will show his numbers.

BTW, How many Super Bowls has he been too?? You do realize you just limited the number of quality QB in the league to 6. Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Goff, Wilson, and Foles.

So lets take Foles.


PPG	W	L

18 less	11	3

19-29	11	9

29+	4	10

But he's been to Super Bowl so he has to be better than Cousins.

So, let's add Aaron Rodgers to the mix. Since 2012.

Def PPG	         W	L 	T
18 or lower	33	3	0
19 to 29	30	11	1
29 + 	         5	25	0

Once again, who do you want? Better yet, Name a QB that wins more than 25% of the time when his defense scores 29 points or more per game. Just one. You can't. Because they don't exist.

To me these numbers are damning. He has a lower win percentage than Nick Foles when his team needed him to step up.

The Rodgers numbers are even worse in comparison. Rodgers wins almost twice as many games in that 19-29 range.

That is why Rodgers is in the playoffs almost every year and Cousins best season is 9 wins. Those numbers right there are the proof of what a great QB can do versus one that is just okay.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 12, 2019 20:04:22 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Dec 12, 2019 20:04:22 GMT -6

Dec 12, 2019 18:59:37 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Dec 12, 2019 13:12:07 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Once again, Cousins is solely to blame for what went on in DC. You talk about cherry picking bits. That is exactly what you are doing. Cherry picking nothing but Wins and losses. Ignoring other factors that went into the Skins wins and losses.

These are Cousins wins and losses in Washington depending on how many points per game the defense gave up. This is about par on course with wins and losses of every QB in the league with the same defensive ppg. Some QB's do better in certain areas, but overall, Cousins is not outside the norm.

Def PPG    	W	L 	T

18 or lower	11	2	0

19 to 29	16	10	1

29 + 	         1	19	0

Don't believe me? Pick any QB and I will show his numbers.

BTW, How many Super Bowls has he been too?? You do realize you just limited the number of quality QB in the league to 6. Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Goff, Wilson, and Foles.

So lets take Foles.


PPG	W	L

18 less	11	3

19-29	11	9

29+	4	10

But he's been to Super Bowl so he has to be better than Cousins.

So, let's add Aaron Rodgers to the mix. Since 2012.

Def PPG	         W	L 	T
18 or lower	33	3	0
19 to 29	30	11	1
29 + 	         5	25	0

Once again, who do you want? Better yet, Name a QB that wins more than 25% of the time when his defense scores 29 points or more per game. Just one. You can't. Because they don't exist.

To me these numbers are damning. He has a lower win percentage than Nick Foles when his team needed him to step up.

The Rodgers numbers are even worse in comparison. Rodgers wins almost twice as many games in that 19-29 range.

That is why Rodgers is in the playoffs almost every year and Cousins best season is 9 wins. Those numbers right there are the proof of what a great QB can do versus one that is just okay.

Rodgers is in the playoffs almost every year. Right?? Tell me, why then one of the greatest QB's in the history of the game has only won one Super Bowl? Who do you blame for that? Rodgers? I doubt it. Here's a hint for you. 15 ppg. Wait, Favre, yeah lets' use him. Wait, 16 ppg. Wait, Favre in MN when they lost the Conference 19.5 ppg. I know,Brady, let's use him. The years Brady won the Super Bowl. 17 ppg 14.8 ppg. 16.25 ppg. 19.5 ppg. 20.0 ppg.

But please, keep telling me that Cousin's win/loss record in Washington (25 ppg during his games) is all his fault. It's like claiming the only reason the Pats win is because of Brady, It's a freaking team game and to claim a QB is solely responsible for his Win/loss record is disingenuous.

BTW, Rodgers win loss record since 2015 to today. 40-27-1 Cousins 41-34-2 But yeah, you want Rodgers. Tell me, why his record the last 3.5 years is the almost the same as Cousins?

Last Edit: Dec 12, 2019 20:32:35 GMT -6 by Raptorman

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

vikingpitbull
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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 12, 2019 20:34:27 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on Dec 12, 2019 20:34:27 GMT -6

There is nothing ever going to be won on circular arguments regarding stats and different teams. There are too many moving parts to even try to bring into a debate.

The individual player can be looked at other than his stat sheet.

How does each do when things aren't going good do they fold or do they dig in. How are they under pressure when it's on them can they lead the team things of that nature. The it factor.

It is a team game but the greats make their teams better with results that matter and that team believes in them.

What QB would you want under center with a SB on the line.
I doubt many would nominate Kirk Cousins.

That's just fact he plays small in times he need to be big he folds under the big lights he doesn't have the confidence a real leader has.

He has produced in the same fashion under multiple systems and multiple players. You judge him on him nothing else.

I ask what is different today then yesterday? Not stats not the team the QB himself.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 12, 2019 20:40:35 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by 6 on Dec 12, 2019 20:40:35 GMT -6

Dec 12, 2019 20:34:27 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

There is nothing ever going to be won on circular arguments regarding stats and different teams. There are too many moving parts to even try to bring into a debate.

The individual player can be looked at other than his stat sheet.

How does each do when things aren't going good do they fold or do they dig in. How are they under pressure when it's on them can they lead the team things of that nature. The it factor.

It is a team game but the greats make their teams better with results that matter and that team believes in them.

What QB would you want under center with a SB on the line.
I doubt many would nominate Kirk Cousins.

That's just fact he plays small in times he need to be big he folds under the big lights he doesn't have the confidence a real leader has.

He has produced in the same fashion under multiple systems and multiple players. You judge him on him nothing else.

I ask what is different today then yesterday? Not stats not the team the QB himself.

And they dont want to include a sb victory, nor do they want to include playoffs. Just a convenient sample that fits a certain narrative. Sort of like the spielman talk.

Raptorman Hall of Fame Inductee Posts: 18,534 Likes: 8,273 Fan Since: November 6, 1966. Member is Online	Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 12, 2019 21:20:41 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Raptorman on Dec 12, 2019 21:20:41 GMT -6 I see no one is willing to discuss Rodgers lack of wins the last few years. I wonder why?
	You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 12, 2019 21:24:30 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by 6 on Dec 12, 2019 21:24:30 GMT -6

Dec 12, 2019 21:20:41 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

I see no one is willing to discuss Rodgers lack of wins the last few years. I wonder why?

i am willing to discuss but then let discuss lack of anything anywhere from cousins? (You wont discuss that)Other than fantasy football.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 12, 2019 21:31:12 GMT -6 via mobile NoresemanSam likes this

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Post by Raptorman on Dec 12, 2019 21:31:12 GMT -6

Dec 12, 2019 21:24:30 GMT -6 6 said:

Dec 12, 2019 21:20:41 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

I see no one is willing to discuss Rodgers lack of wins the last few years. I wonder why?

i am willing to discuss but then let discuss lack of anything anywhere from cousins? (You wont discuss that)Other than fantasy football.

Really? What do you think I have been doing? Cousins win loss record is not his alone. As is no QBs I wonder why that is so hard for people to understand. How a defense plays has a lot to do with it. Qb play does as well. But it's a hell of lot easier to win games when the defense gives up less than 18 points per game. That is just a fact. A fact some p6dont want to ascribe to Cousins for some reason. I challenge anyone to show me a QB with a winning record whose team gave up 25 points per game over 3 years. Just one QB.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

6
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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 12, 2019 21:32:35 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by 6 on Dec 12, 2019 21:32:35 GMT -6

Dec 12, 2019 21:31:12 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Dec 12, 2019 21:24:30 GMT -6 6 said:

i am willing to discuss but then let discuss lack of anything anywhere from cousins? (You wont discuss that)Other than fantasy football.

Really? What do you think I have been doing? Cousins win loss record is not his alone. As is no QBs I wonder why that is so hard for people to understand. How a defense plays has a lot to do with it. Qb play does as well. But it's a hell of lot easier to win games when the defense gives up less than 18 points per game. That is just a fact. A fact some p6dont want to ascribe to Cousins for some reason. I challenge anyone to show me a QB with a winning record whose team gave up 25 points per game over 3 years. Just one QB.

and he hasnt won squat.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 12, 2019 21:51:17 GMT -6

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Post by 6 on Dec 12, 2019 21:51:17 GMT -6

Dec 12, 2019 21:31:12 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Dec 12, 2019 21:24:30 GMT -6 6 said:

i am willing to discuss but then let discuss lack of anything anywhere from cousins? (You wont discuss that)Other than fantasy football.

Really? What do you think I have been doing? Cousins win loss record is not his alone. As is no QBs I wonder why that is so hard for people to understand. How a defense plays has a lot to do with it. Qb play does as well. But it's a hell of lot easier to win games when the defense gives up less than 18 points per game. That is just a fact. A fact some p6dont want to ascribe to Cousins for some reason. I challenge anyone to show me a QB with a winning record whose team gave up 25 points per game over 3 years. Just one QB.

And it works both ways with those stats. Beating the NFC EAST isnt exactly something I would use as support for an argument. And the AFC west isn’t exactly a power division with regards to defense.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 12, 2019 22:02:27 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Dec 12, 2019 22:02:27 GMT -6

Dec 12, 2019 21:32:35 GMT -6 6 said:

Dec 12, 2019 21:31:12 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Really? What do you think I have been doing? Cousins win loss record is not his alone. As is no QBs I wonder why that is so hard for people to understand. How a defense plays has a lot to do with it. Qb play does as well. But it's a hell of lot easier to win games when the defense gives up less than 18 points per game. That is just a fact. A fact some p6dont want to ascribe to Cousins for some reason. I challenge anyone to show me a QB with a winning record whose team gave up 25 points per game over 3 years. Just one QB.

and he hasnt won squat.

I see you are not up to the challenge. Just keep regurgitating the same thing, "He hasn't won." So you really aren't about discussing anything.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.