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Raptorman
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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Jan 1, 2020 12:29:20 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Jan 1, 2020 12:29:20 GMT -6

Jan 1, 2020 2:19:30 GMT -6 vikecycle said:

Jan 1, 2020 2:06:41 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Wrong? Right.

Let me quote it again for you. Read slower. I highlight the important part. Seattle, while they did end up with a winning record, at game time they did not. See, this is something people keep talking about Cousins. He can't beat teams with winning records. I even heard not more than just before the Packers game. Not how they finished the year, but during the season.

Now, has he beat teams during the season in the 4th that ended up with a winning record? Oh I'm sure. But I'm sure it's not as many as people think. But then, so has Cousins.

Yes. Wrong. 2013 Packers @ Bears, Rodgers overcame a 4th quarter deficit to win, the Bears were a winning team going into the game.

Can you please stop repeating your bad, wrong statistic? It was wrong the first time it was said, it isnt going to get any righter.

Yup, Your right. They are wrong. Well I went through Rodgers games. And I found 5 regular season games that would qualify more or less to blow their theory.

The 2013 Bears game.
The 2019 Chiefs game. It was tied at the beginning of the 4th.
A 2011 Bears game that was tied at the start of the 4th.
A 2016 Texans game that was tied at the start of the 4th.
And a 2011 Giants game. The Packers were ahead at the start of the 4th, Giants tied them, and the Packers won it on a field goal.

I'm impressed. Not. It's like Cousins over a longer period of time.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

PurpleKoolaid
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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Jan 1, 2020 12:46:50 GMT -6

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Post by PurpleKoolaid on Jan 1, 2020 12:46:50 GMT -6

Jan 1, 2020 12:29:20 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Jan 1, 2020 2:19:30 GMT -6 vikecycle said:

Yes. Wrong. 2013 Packers @ Bears, Rodgers overcame a 4th quarter deficit to win, the Bears were a winning team going into the game.

Can you please stop repeating your bad, wrong statistic? It was wrong the first time it was said, it isnt going to get any righter.

Yup, Your right. They are wrong. Well I went through Rodgers games. And I found 5 regular season games that would qualify more or less to blow their theory.

The 2013 Bears game.
The 2019 Chiefs game. It was tied at the beginning of the 4th.
A 2011 Bears game that was tied at the start of the 4th.
A 2016 Texans game that was tied at the start of the 4th.
And a 2011 Giants game. The Packers were ahead at the start of the 4th, Giants tied them, and the Packers won it on a field goal.

I'm impressed. Not. It's like Cousins over a longer period of time.

You realize Raptorman makes up 'stats' as he goes along, to try and support Cousins. Not worth your time really to debate someone like that, unless you have a ton of free time on your hands.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Jan 1, 2020 13:59:00 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Jan 1, 2020 13:59:00 GMT -6

Jan 1, 2020 12:46:50 GMT -6 PurpleKoolaid said:

Jan 1, 2020 12:29:20 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Yup, Your right. They are wrong. Well I went through Rodgers games. And I found 5 regular season games that would qualify more or less to blow their theory.

The 2013 Bears game.
The 2019 Chiefs game. It was tied at the beginning of the 4th.
A 2011 Bears game that was tied at the start of the 4th.
A 2016 Texans game that was tied at the start of the 4th.
And a 2011 Giants game. The Packers were ahead at the start of the 4th, Giants tied them, and the Packers won it on a field goal.

I'm impressed. Not. It's like Cousins over a longer period of time.

You realize Raptorman makes up 'stats' as he goes along, to try and support Cousins. Not worth your time really to debate someone like that, unless you have a ton of free time on your hands.

I don't make up crap. I read something in more than one place. Those people happened to be wrong. Not by much mind you. And Cousin's. All I ask is people use the same standard they use for other QB's. Which no one here wants to do. The look at one thing and one thing only. Wins and Loses. Not how those wins and loses actually came about not only for Cousins but for Brady, and Rodgers and any other QB. But if you don't want to do that, keep living in the fantasy that another QB will do better, that another yet unnamed QB will bring the Vikings to Valhalla.

There is one question I have asked that no one seldom answers. If Rodgers is so damn good, why does he only have one Ring? After all, if wins and loses are about the QB play he should have more. After all, for years we have been hearing how great he is. How he is the one of the greatest QB's ever. Why only 1 ring? (hint, defensive ppg that year, 15.5)

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Jan 1, 2020 18:02:05 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Jan 1, 2020 18:02:05 GMT -6

Jan 1, 2020 13:59:00 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Jan 1, 2020 12:46:50 GMT -6 PurpleKoolaid said:

You realize Raptorman makes up 'stats' as he goes along, to try and support Cousins. Not worth your time really to debate someone like that, unless you have a ton of free time on your hands.

I don't make up crap. I read something in more than one place. Those people happened to be wrong. Not by much mind you. And Cousin's. All I ask is people use the same standard they use for other QB's. Which no one here wants to do. The look at one thing and one thing only. Wins and Loses. Not how those wins and loses actually came about not only for Cousins but for Brady, and Rodgers and any other QB. But if you don't want to do that, keep living in the fantasy that another QB will do better, that another yet unnamed QB will bring the Vikings to Valhalla.

There is one question I have asked that no one seldom answers. If Rodgers is so damn good, why does he only have one Ring? After all, if wins and loses are about the QB play he should have more. After all, for years we have been hearing how great he is. How he is the one of the greatest QB's ever. Why only 1 ring? (hint, defensive ppg that year, 15.5)

It isn't just about the SB rings. Again you are turning the argument to one you think you can win.

Does Cousins make a big enough difference to justify 15% of the cap? Is it even possible to pay him that and still put a team good enough to win it all with him at QB?

In a thread about extending Cousins, all that matters are those points. Unless both of those are true, we should not extend him.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Jan 1, 2020 19:24:09 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by lc34 on Jan 1, 2020 19:24:09 GMT -6

If not Cousins after his contract then who? We are the Dan Cole of the NFL. The best of the lousiest and the lousiest of the best. So we will probably go 9-7 next year, leading to a high 20 something pick. There wont be any "cant miss" QBs to draft there Im guessing. So we would have to pick up a veteran to let the kid sit and learn best case scenario.

Not like Russell Wilson will be an option for us. Or Lamar Jackson on his rookie deal. If there is a big time QB that's younger and a proven winner then we will be paying more than what we are for Cousins now. And then this whole damn fanbase will say the EXACT SAME THING as we are now. The key is getting a great QB on a rookie deal and signing him to an extension before he really goes off. And even then they would hold out and you'd have to overpay in the end. Gone are the days of the QB being a normal position, most teams with a capable signal caller are going to be dishing out most of the cap space to that position if they aren't on rookie deals.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Jan 1, 2020 20:01:45 GMT -6 via mobile lc34 likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Jan 1, 2020 20:01:45 GMT -6

Jan 1, 2020 19:24:09 GMT -6 lc34 said:

If not Cousins after his contract then who? We are the Dan Cole of the NFL. The best of the lousiest and the lousiest of the best. So we will probably go 9-7 next year, leading to a high 20 something pick. There wont be any "cant miss" QBs to draft there Im guessing. So we would have to pick up a veteran to let the kid sit and learn best case scenario.

Not like Russell Wilson will be an option for us. Or Lamar Jackson on his rookie deal. If there is a big time QB that's younger and a proven winner then we will be paying more than what we are for Cousins now. And then this whole damn fanbase will say the EXACT SAME THING as we are now. The key is getting a great QB on a rookie deal and signing him to an extension before he really goes off. And even then they would hold out and you'd have to overpay in the end. Gone are the days of the QB being a normal position, most teams with a capable signal caller are going to be dishing out most of the cap space to that position if they aren't on rookie deals.

Fans of the Chiefs said the same about Smith before the 2017 season. Same thing for the Ravens before the 2018 one.

It is a weak argument for two reasons:

#1 It displays a sense of defeatism that will never lead to a Super Bowl and

#2 It is absolutely wrong. It was wrong when people were content with Sam Bradford going into 2017, it was wrong in 2018 when we first signed Cousins. It is wrong now. There will almost assuredly be a QB that will be better than Cousins in this draft or the next. If we stick with what we have, we will miss out on that QB. 100% we will miss out.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Jan 1, 2020 20:31:58 GMT -6 Funkytown, NoresemanSam, and 1 more like this

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Post by Raptorman on Jan 1, 2020 20:31:58 GMT -6

Jan 1, 2020 20:01:45 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Jan 1, 2020 19:24:09 GMT -6 lc34 said:

If not Cousins after his contract then who? We are the Dan Cole of the NFL. The best of the lousiest and the lousiest of the best. So we will probably go 9-7 next year, leading to a high 20 something pick. There wont be any "cant miss" QBs to draft there Im guessing. So we would have to pick up a veteran to let the kid sit and learn best case scenario.

Not like Russell Wilson will be an option for us. Or Lamar Jackson on his rookie deal. If there is a big time QB that's younger and a proven winner then we will be paying more than what we are for Cousins now. And then this whole damn fanbase will say the EXACT SAME THING as we are now. The key is getting a great QB on a rookie deal and signing him to an extension before he really goes off. And even then they would hold out and you'd have to overpay in the end. Gone are the days of the QB being a normal position, most teams with a capable signal caller are going to be dishing out most of the cap space to that position if they aren't on rookie deals.

Fans of the Chiefs said the same about Smith before the 2017 season. Same thing for the Ravens before the 2018 one.

It is a weak argument for two reasons:

#1 It displays a sense of defeatism that will never lead to a Super Bowl and

#2 It is absolutely wrong. It was wrong when people were content with Sam Bradford going into 2017, it was wrong in 2018 when we first signed Cousins. It is wrong now. There will almost assuredly be a QB that will be better than Cousins in this draft or the next. If we stick with what we have, we will miss out on that QB. 100% we will miss out.

Name this mythical QB that the Vikings will be able to replace Cousins with. Because really, it's easy to sit at a keyboard and claim what you claim. Not so easy to put into practice. As I do with everyone who makes this claim, your not the first. Who should that QB be? Name the QB coming out of college who will be the next HOF player.

If Tom Brady had been drafted by the Lions instead of the Patriots, right now you would be saying "Tom who?"

Last Edit: Jan 1, 2020 20:34:55 GMT -6 by Raptorman

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lc34
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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Jan 1, 2020 20:34:17 GMT -6

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Post by lc34 on Jan 1, 2020 20:34:17 GMT -6

Jan 1, 2020 20:01:45 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Jan 1, 2020 19:24:09 GMT -6 lc34 said:

If not Cousins after his contract then who? We are the Dan Cole of the NFL. The best of the lousiest and the lousiest of the best. So we will probably go 9-7 next year, leading to a high 20 something pick. There wont be any "cant miss" QBs to draft there Im guessing. So we would have to pick up a veteran to let the kid sit and learn best case scenario.

Not like Russell Wilson will be an option for us. Or Lamar Jackson on his rookie deal. If there is a big time QB that's younger and a proven winner then we will be paying more than what we are for Cousins now. And then this whole damn fanbase will say the EXACT SAME THING as we are now. The key is getting a great QB on a rookie deal and signing him to an extension before he really goes off. And even then they would hold out and you'd have to overpay in the end. Gone are the days of the QB being a normal position, most teams with a capable signal caller are going to be dishing out most of the cap space to that position if they aren't on rookie deals.

Fans of the Chiefs said the same about Smith before the 2017 season. Same thing for the Ravens before the 2018 one.

It is a weak argument for two reasons:

#1 It displays a sense of defeatism that will never lead to a Super Bowl and

#2 It is absolutely wrong. It was wrong when people were content with Sam Bradford going into 2017, it was wrong in 2018 when we first signed Cousins. It is wrong now. There will almost assuredly be a QB that will be better than Cousins in this draft or the next. If we stick with what we have, we will miss out on that QB. 100% we will miss out.

Mahomes sat out his entire rookie year to learn. Just like I had said we draft someone and they will have to sit. Wait until his rookie deal is up. I bet he will make more than Cousins. And he should, my point is the postition is expensive without a rookie deal. Also this time last year Ravens fans were booing Jackson. It takes time to develop. This fanbase would expect 45 td passes and 2 ints. Minimum. First year or maybe even half a season.

I agree 100% there will be QBs better than Cousins then. But we cant throw them to the fire and expect a better ending as a rookie WOULD struggle and this defense isn't prepared to carry the team. Can you imagine this season if Cousins threw 10 more ints and fumbled more? We saw it last year. Blame went to Cousins when it should have gone to the defense this year. A rookie QB would be THE WORST thing for this team at this moment. Other areas need to be addressed first in my opinion. Now if someone falls far like Rodgers back in the day, jump on it. A guy thought to be the 1st pick taken in the 20s? Go for it. But I think there are many more areas of concern. And CB will be pretty shallow for this team once free agency hits and Rhodes is cut.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Jan 2, 2020 11:31:28 GMT -6 via mobile IAVike likes this

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Post by James on Jan 2, 2020 11:31:28 GMT -6

Dec 30, 2019 16:24:19 GMT -6 lc34 said:

Do us Minnesota fans ever like our QB? I mean apart from Tarkenton? Hell even then did people complain about him? I am too young. Everyone hated Daunte, Moon, Ponder, Cunningham in '99, etc.

Point being is Ive never really heard this fanbase get excited about their QB. Favre for the first year I guess. Hell they say the media and fans destroy their players in NYC, but I think our mood towards our starting QB is worse here. Its a quick "ohh yeah hes awesome!" then after a year or even a few weeks people are calling KFAN to have him benched.

The Minnesota Vikings have not had a quarterback play two complete consecutive seasons since Fran Tarkenton. It’s been over 40 years. So that explains our PTSD when it comes to QBs

slapnut19 Hall of Fame Nominee Posts: 9,461 Likes: 3,062	Kirk Cousins - Extension? Jan 8, 2020 9:54:25 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by slapnut19 on Jan 8, 2020 9:54:25 GMT -6 him getting extended is probably a done deal after sunday. i'm sure there has to be a way for him to get a few more years on his deal and give us some cap relief.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Jan 8, 2020 10:36:20 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Jan 8, 2020 10:36:20 GMT -6

Jan 8, 2020 9:54:25 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

him getting extended is probably a done deal after sunday. i'm sure there has to be a way for him to get a few more years on his deal and give us some cap relief.

I really hope not... If he gets us to Miami, perhaps... but I need more than one playoff win, especially with a less than stellar performance from him...

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Jan 8, 2020 11:01:54 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Jan 8, 2020 11:01:54 GMT -6

Jan 8, 2020 10:36:20 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

Jan 8, 2020 9:54:25 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

him getting extended is probably a done deal after sunday. i'm sure there has to be a way for him to get a few more years on his deal and give us some cap relief.

I really hope not... If he gets us to Miami, perhaps... but I need more than one playoff win, especially with a less than stellar performance from him...

It is not uncommon for even great QBs to have a bad game in the first round of the playoffs, and it was encouraging to see him step up in OT and actually play better in a big spot, instead of worse. Amazing what a difference that makes in the W-L column raptorman.

However, if he comes out tight in this game as well, I really hope the Vikings realize they need to start planning for moving on in 2021.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Jan 8, 2020 14:24:09 GMT -6 via mobile Danchat and TAFKASP like this

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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2020 14:24:09 GMT -6

We have at least 17 more games of data to gather before needing to make a decision on Kirk. I don’t understand where the urgency to make a decision is coming from... An extension is not going to free up a ton of cap space. Before NoresemanSam pops in to let us know how that’s all possible, I know... Move salary to bonus money and kick the can down the road. Let’s just wait and see how this plays out before handing out more guaranteed money in future years.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Jan 8, 2020 20:48:05 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by NoresemanSam on Jan 8, 2020 20:48:05 GMT -6

NoresemanSam was just responding to posts that claimed that an extension couldn't free up 2020 cap space by providing a single example (you're welcome). Many are possible.

Sure, we can wait until he is a full blown FA and we have (perhaps many) competitors for his services. That is one strategy. It may be the best strategy. It also may be an awful strategy. Either way, if we don't extend it will be too late when we find out. I'll go out on a very short limb here and predict that trader Rick will negotiate an extension this Spring. You all can (and will) let me know if I'm wrong about this.

"There is no one most valuable Viking. There are 40 most valuable Vikings" - Joe Kapp upon refusing to accept the team MVP award

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Jan 8, 2020 21:45:49 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Jan 8, 2020 21:45:49 GMT -6

Jan 8, 2020 20:48:05 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

NoresemanSam was just responding to posts that claimed that an extension couldn't free up 2020 cap space by providing a single example (you're welcome). Many are possible.

Sure, we can wait until he is a full blown FA and we have (perhaps many) competitors for his services. That is one strategy. It may be the best strategy. It also may be an awful strategy. Either way, if we don't extend it will be too late when we find out. I'll go out on a very short limb here and predict that trader Rick will negotiate an extension this Spring. You all can (and will) let me know if I'm wrong about this.

If the new CBA weren't coming up in 2021 you would be probably right. Might still be right, but I think that makes it less likely.