the big bad refs that are out to get us

Funkytown
Owner

Purple Pain Big Dog

Posts: 67,657

Likes: 31,578
Fan Since: 1998

the big bad refs that are out to get us Oct 15, 2019 7:44:06 GMT -6 twinssouth, NoresemanSam, and 1 more like this

Quote

Post by Funkytown on Oct 15, 2019 7:44:06 GMT -6

Oct 15, 2019 7:09:36 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner said:

Well at least the refs aren't only out to get us now.

Lions fans are of course b*tching about the calls, saying rich stuff like "it could only happen to the Lions" lol. But a substantial number are also b*tching about not playing better, about not being able to finish drives with TDs instead of FGs, about not being able to "step on their throats" (sounds like they've been reading our forum). 5 field goals? That's 20 points they left on the field. Converting even one of those 5 gives them the win. Its always the close games that shouldn't have been close where the botched calls end up being the focus. If the Lions had scored 3 or 4 of those TDs nobody (except Vikings fans) would be talking about the calls.

Fair points, but it doesn't change the fact that the officials gave GB two bogus calls at the end of the game to extend the drive and help them win. Two bogus calls, on the same guy, who had NEVER been called for that penalty in his career ... until the 4th quarter ... on the road ... in Green Bay ... when Green Bay was losing. It's so effing obvious, and it's disgusting.

Even the MNF crew was disgusted. And to call it AGAIN?!? Same thing; his hand was on his shoulder/shoulder pad. Say what you want, but Green Bay gets A LOT of ridiculous calls, especially at home. But when calls are completely fricken made up?! Lions fans have every right to be upset. All NFL fans should be upset. If we're going to make pass interference calls reviewable, every fricken play should be reviewable! They're still getting things wrong way too often, and it's still causing teams football games! Let's not just feel bad for the poor Saints and their fans; the Lions and their fans are people, too!

It's 2019, almost 2020 ... do better, NFL. *poke*

Deleted
Ghosted Member

Posts: 0
Likes:

the big bad refs that are out to get us Oct 15, 2019 7:53:02 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 7:53:02 GMT -6

Oct 15, 2019 7:44:06 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Oct 15, 2019 7:09:36 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner said:

Well at least the refs aren't only out to get us now.

Lions fans are of course b*tching about the calls, saying rich stuff like "it could only happen to the Lions" lol. But a substantial number are also b*tching about not playing better, about not being able to finish drives with TDs instead of FGs, about not being able to "step on their throats" (sounds like they've been reading our forum). 5 field goals? That's 20 points they left on the field. Converting even one of those 5 gives them the win. Its always the close games that shouldn't have been close where the botched calls end up being the focus. If the Lions had scored 3 or 4 of those TDs nobody (except Vikings fans) would be talking about the calls.

Fair points, but it doesn't change the fact that the officials gave GB two bogus calls at the end of the game to extend the drive and help them win. Two bogus calls, on the same guy, who had NEVER been called for that penalty in his career ... until the 4th quarter ... on the road ... in Green Bay ... when Green Bay was losing. It's so effing obvious, and it's disgusting.

Even the MNF crew was disgusted. And to call it AGAIN?!? Same thing; his hand was on his shoulder/shoulder pad. Say what you want, but Green Bay gets A LOT of ridiculous calls, especially at home. But when calls are completely fricken made up?! Lions fans have every right to be upset. All NFL fans should be upset. If we're going to make pass interference calls reviewable, every fricken play should be reviewable! They're still getting things wrong way too often, and it's still causing teams football games! Let's not just feel bad for the poor Saints and their fans; the Lions and their fans are people, too!

It's 2019, almost 2020 ... do better, NFL. *poke*

Agreed. FGs instead of TDs is low on the list of reasons why they lost this game. The Lions did enough to win and got 2 horrible calls against them at the worst possible time. Both hands to the face calls came on 3rd down IIRC. The first call cancelled a sack which would have more than likely sealed the game.

I don't agree with reviewing every play, or everything they're reviewing currently. That's going to stall the game and extend it from 3 hours to 4+. They have poorly defined rules and it shouldn't take 5 years to figure it out.

Funkytown
Owner

Purple Pain Big Dog

Posts: 67,657

Likes: 31,578
Fan Since: 1998

the big bad refs that are out to get us Oct 15, 2019 8:26:28 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Funkytown on Oct 15, 2019 8:26:28 GMT -6

Oct 15, 2019 7:53:02 GMT -6 @keeniac said:

I don't agree with reviewing every play, or everything they're reviewing currently. That's going to stall the game and extend it from 3 hours to 4+. They have poorly defined rules and it shouldn't take 5 years to figure it out.

I don't mean review every play; I mean make every replay reviewable. Why is it that we can review PI/DPI and non-calls for PI/DPI, but nothing else? Last night, the Lions could have challenged those stupid calls and, hopefully, the blind guys would have gotten it right. I mean, they wouldn't have doubled-down on their stupid calls, would they?

Throwing the challenge flag puts a spotlight on the whole thing; I would like to believe, more often than not, they'd get the call right. In this case, I would like to believe they would have. It takes the refs out of the game even further, and that, I like. They're human; they make mistakes. I accept that. However, why isn't there any way to correct their mistakes outside of PI/DPI? Go further with it.

It wouldn't make games much longer, because there would still be a set amount of challenges; therefore, not much of a difference. The nonsense about making the game oh so much longer is fake news. Also, even if, I don't care about adding 5-10 minutes to my watching time to get things right. That's not that big of a deal. I'd rather spend a little more time and get things right than what we're doing now.

Deleted
Ghosted Member

Posts: 0
Likes:

the big bad refs that are out to get us Oct 15, 2019 8:31:13 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 8:31:13 GMT -6

But they haven't gotten calls right even with the challenge. In fact, throwing out a challenge flag right now is proving to be a waste of the challenge and timeout.

Don't know the exact numbers now, but when I last looked, only 1 out of 25 challenges were overturned. Even with obvious evidence to overturn it they are ignoring it.

Oracle Bone Diviner
Moderator

Posts: 14,705
Likes: 10,607
Fan Since: last century

the big bad refs that are out to get us Oct 15, 2019 8:54:51 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Oracle Bone Diviner on Oct 15, 2019 8:54:51 GMT -6

Oct 15, 2019 7:44:06 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Oct 15, 2019 7:09:36 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner said:

Well at least the refs aren't only out to get us now.

Lions fans are of course b*tching about the calls, saying rich stuff like "it could only happen to the Lions" lol. But a substantial number are also b*tching about not playing better, about not being able to finish drives with TDs instead of FGs, about not being able to "step on their throats" (sounds like they've been reading our forum). 5 field goals? That's 20 points they left on the field. Converting even one of those 5 gives them the win. Its always the close games that shouldn't have been close where the botched calls end up being the focus. If the Lions had scored 3 or 4 of those TDs nobody (except Vikings fans) would be talking about the calls.

Fair points, but it doesn't change the fact that the officials gave GB two bogus calls at the end of the game to extend the drive and help them win. Two bogus calls, on the same guy, who had NEVER been called for that penalty in his career ... until the 4th quarter ... on the road ... in Green Bay ... when Green Bay was losing. It's so effing obvious, and it's disgusting.

The refs don't take into account whether someone has or hasn't been called for something earlier in their career, nor should they. They should make calls based on what they see. But once they make a call on someone that very day, they are likely to be watching them more closely to see if they do it again. That's unavoidable and it can lead to confirmation bias and it probably did. The same way that Vikings fans who think the refs are on GB's side always see things to confirm it. And why would Vikings fans tend to see GB penalties better than others? Because Vikings fans are biased lol. We hate GB more than any other team, a lot more, that's why. Meanwhile, none of those fans can see the uncalled penalties on the Vikings that are peppered throughout this thread in living color.

Good teams take advantage of the ref mistakes, bad teams don't. That's why it seems like the better team wins because of the calls.

Even the MNF crew was disgusted. And to call it AGAIN?!? Same thing; his hand was on his shoulder/shoulder pad. Say what you want, but Green Bay gets A LOT of ridiculous calls, especially at home. But when calls are completely fricken made up?! Lions fans have every right to be upset. All NFL fans should be upset. If we're going to make pass interference calls reviewable, every fricken play should be reviewable! They're still getting things wrong way too often, and it's still causing teams football games! Let's not just feel bad for the poor Saints and their fans; the Lions and their fans are people, too!

They were bad calls. But it happens all over. The Titans have been the beneficiary of more calls than any other team, and they are 2-4.

The Pukers are in the top 5 of beneficiary calls but the middle of the pack on calls against, so the refs could certainly do a better job of favoring them.

There's a ringing in my ear and I think it's the Call of the Wild

itinerant, noun; a person who works and wanders.

Funkytown
Owner

Purple Pain Big Dog

Posts: 67,657

Likes: 31,578
Fan Since: 1998

the big bad refs that are out to get us Oct 15, 2019 9:17:47 GMT -6 twinssouth likes this

Quote

Post by Funkytown on Oct 15, 2019 9:17:47 GMT -6

Oct 15, 2019 8:31:13 GMT -6 @keeniac said:

But they haven't gotten calls right even with the challenge. In fact, throwing out a challenge flag right now is proving to be a waste of the challenge and timeout.

Don't know the exact numbers now, but when I last looked, only 1 out of 25 challenges were overturned. Even with obvious evidence to overturn it they are ignoring it.

Unfortunately, PI/DPI is fairly subjective. They've even said they'd only overturn it if it was blatant. That's a tough one, and I get that. The new rules haven't been perfect, but I get why we have them. I just think if PI/DPI is suddenly reviewable, then go further with it. Why just that one penalty that is reviewable? Why not personal fouls? Why not defensive holding? Why not ... illegal hands to the face? Why not, at minimum, all calls that extend drives with automatic first downs?

As far as last night's calls, well, those, if reviewed, are not subjective. Someone's shoulder is NOT their face/their facemask. Guess what? No penalty, Packers punt, Lions likely win. We have to do better. It's embarrassing.

And for those who don't get it. Look at prices for a game to Lambeau. Imagine being a Lions fans who paid $400 for a ticket to see it end like that. Just imagine it. It's effing sickening. As someone who spends thousands of dollars on my team every year, yeah, I get it. It matters to get things right. And it should matter to all NFL fans.

Mondry
Starter

Posts: 633

Likes: 701

the big bad refs that are out to get us Oct 15, 2019 9:43:19 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

Quote

Post by Mondry on Oct 15, 2019 9:43:19 GMT -6

Oct 15, 2019 9:17:47 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Oct 15, 2019 8:31:13 GMT -6 @keeniac said:

But they haven't gotten calls right even with the challenge. In fact, throwing out a challenge flag right now is proving to be a waste of the challenge and timeout.

Don't know the exact numbers now, but when I last looked, only 1 out of 25 challenges were overturned. Even with obvious evidence to overturn it they are ignoring it.

Unfortunately, PI/DPI is fairly subjective. They've even said they'd only overturn it if it was blatant.

I feel like that's the big thing people (well NFL coaches) are not understanding properly when challenging PI. I mean making it reviewable was literally only because of how bad the saints got screwed last year in the playoffs and there was nothing they could do. If the PI isn't extremely obvious like the WR gets blasted and knocked to the ground a full 1 second before the ball gets there it isn't going to be over turned. They didn't add the ability to challenge PI to over turn the average 50/50 call, it's so a team doesn't lose a playoff game because of an extremely egregious missed penalty.

Oracle Bone Diviner
Moderator

Posts: 14,705
Likes: 10,607
Fan Since: last century

the big bad refs that are out to get us Oct 15, 2019 9:43:25 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Oracle Bone Diviner on Oct 15, 2019 9:43:25 GMT -6

Oct 15, 2019 7:53:02 GMT -6 @keeniac said:

Oct 15, 2019 7:44:06 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Fair points, but it doesn't change the fact that the officials gave GB two bogus calls at the end of the game to extend the drive and help them win. Two bogus calls, on the same guy, who had NEVER been called for that penalty in his career ... until the 4th quarter ... on the road ... in Green Bay ... when Green Bay was losing. It's so effing obvious, and it's disgusting.

Even the MNF crew was disgusted. And to call it AGAIN?!? Same thing; his hand was on his shoulder/shoulder pad. Say what you want, but Green Bay gets A LOT of ridiculous calls, especially at home. But when calls are completely fricken made up?! Lions fans have every right to be upset. All NFL fans should be upset. If we're going to make pass interference calls reviewable, every fricken play should be reviewable! They're still getting things wrong way too often, and it's still causing teams football games! Let's not just feel bad for the poor Saints and their fans; the Lions and their fans are people, too!

It's 2019, almost 2020 ... do better, NFL. *poke*

Agreed. FGs instead of TDs is low on the list of reasons why they lost this game. The Lions did enough to win and got 2 horrible calls against them at the worst possible time. Both hands to the face calls came on 3rd down IIRC. The first call cancelled a sack which would have more than likely sealed the game.

Late in a game that you should have been up by 1 or more TDs in is always a super bad time lol.

I don't agree with reviewing every play, or everything they're reviewing currently. That's going to stall the game and extend it from 3 hours to 4+. They have poorly defined rules and it shouldn't take 5 years to figure it out.

Getting calls right is something I fully support.

There's a ringing in my ear and I think it's the Call of the Wild

itinerant, noun; a person who works and wanders.

Deleted
Ghosted Member

Posts: 0
Likes:

the big bad refs that are out to get us Oct 15, 2019 9:50:32 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 9:50:32 GMT -6

Sure, I support getting the calls right too. It shouldn't take heading under the hood every 3 plays, and challenging everything to accomplish this.

I've watched my fair share of college football too, and amazingly, they don't have these type of issues. They can define, in real time, what pass interference is and isn't. They can make solid judgment calls.

The NFL however, is going the wrong direction quickly. They need to define a rule correctly, and come to that conclusion faster than 5 years. Never forget, it took that long to properly define what a freaking catch is.

Funkytown
Owner

Purple Pain Big Dog

Posts: 67,657

Likes: 31,578
Fan Since: 1998

the big bad refs that are out to get us Oct 15, 2019 9:53:20 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Funkytown on Oct 15, 2019 9:53:20 GMT -6

Oct 15, 2019 8:54:51 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner said:

The refs don't take into account whether someone has or hasn't been called for something earlier in their career, nor should they. They should make calls based on what they see.

That wasn't the point. The point was: he's never been called for that penalty - not even once - the first handful of years of his career, and he shouldn't have been called for it last night. And he was called for it twice. Why do you think he was so upset/disgusted?! He knew he didn't do what he was just penalized for!

Also, the refs didn't make a call based on what they saw. They made it up. Huge difference, pal.

Oct 15, 2019 8:54:51 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner said:

Good teams take advantage of the ref mistakes, bad teams don't. That's why it seems like the better team wins because of the calls.

Good teams don't need calls to go their way in order to win. This should be a non-issue, but it's not. Close games shouldn't be determined by the refs. It's pretty sickening how many times Lions fans are effed over, and that's coming from a Vikings fan.

Oct 15, 2019 8:54:51 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner said:

They were bad calls. But it happens all over. The Titans have been the beneficiary of more calls than any other team, and they are 2-4.

The Pukers are in the top 5 of beneficiary calls but the middle of the pack on calls against, so the refs could certainly do a better job of favoring them.

Context matters.

Top 5 in beneficiary calls? No surprise there! How many of those are in close games? How about when the game is on the line? Ever notice how the Packers get more than their fair share of beneficiary calls when a game is on the line? I've seen it happen numerous times over the past 20+ years. It's disgusting. FLAGS FROM LAMBEAU!!!

Deleted
Ghosted Member

Posts: 0
Likes:

the big bad refs that are out to get us Oct 15, 2019 10:01:25 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 10:01:25 GMT -6

Oct 15, 2019 9:43:19 GMT -6 Mondry said:

Oct 15, 2019 9:17:47 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Unfortunately, PI/DPI is fairly subjective. They've even said they'd only overturn it if it was blatant.

I feel like that's the big thing people (well NFL coaches) are not understanding properly when challenging PI. I mean making it reviewable was literally only because of how bad the saints got screwed last year in the playoffs and there was nothing they could do. If the PI isn't extremely obvious like the WR gets blasted and knocked to the ground a full 1 second before the ball gets there it isn't going to be over turned. They didn't add the ability to challenge PI to over turn the average 50/50 call, it's so a team doesn't lose a playoff game because of an extremely egregious missed penalty.

I don't think we even know anymore what pass interference is. Just this week I saw Golden Tate get full on tackled in the middle of the field by a Patriots defender before the ball was near him. No call. Challenge upheld.

Last night the GB CB Redmond had his left arm hugging Marvin Jones before the ball was catchable. No flag.

It all needs to be changed, now.

Raptorman
Hall of Fame Inductee

Posts: 18,522

Likes: 8,271
Fan Since: November 6, 1966.

the big bad refs that are out to get us Oct 15, 2019 10:06:57 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Raptorman on Oct 15, 2019 10:06:57 GMT -6

Oct 15, 2019 8:31:13 GMT -6 @keeniac said:

But they haven't gotten calls right even with the challenge. In fact, throwing out a challenge flag right now is proving to be a waste of the challenge and timeout.

Don't know the exact numbers now, but when I last looked, only 1 out of 25 challenges were overturned. Even with obvious evidence to overturn it they are ignoring it.

1 out of 25 and one that wasn't called at all.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

Funkytown
Owner

Purple Pain Big Dog

Posts: 67,657

Likes: 31,578
Fan Since: 1998

the big bad refs that are out to get us Oct 15, 2019 10:28:24 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Funkytown on Oct 15, 2019 10:28:24 GMT -6

For those who don't participate in NFL Talk - FIRST, start doing that!!! - check out more of the Packers-Lions discussion here:

www.purplepainforums.com/thread/2157/2019-nfl-season-discussion-thread?page=64

HarryHits22
Hall of Fame Inductee

Posts: 14,518
Likes: 966

the big bad refs that are out to get us Oct 15, 2019 10:50:59 GMT -6 via mobile Funkytown and Purple Pain like this

Quote

Post by HarryHits22 on Oct 15, 2019 10:50:59 GMT -6

Oct 15, 2019 7:09:36 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner said:

Well at least the refs aren't only out to get us now.

Lions fans are of course b*tching about the calls, saying rich stuff like "it could only happen to the Lions" lol. But a substantial number are also b*tching about not playing better, about not being able to finish drives with TDs instead of FGs, about not being able to "step on their throats" (sounds like they've been reading our forum). 5 field goals? That's 20 points they left on the field. Converting even one of those 5 gives them the win. Its always the close games that shouldn't have been close where the botched calls end up being the focus. If the Lions had scored 3 or 4 of those TDs nobody (except Vikings fans) would be talking about the calls.

There are always reasons to point to other than the refs. It’s not ALL the refs fault.

But when you have what is supposed to be an impartial third party with a real ability to influence the game consistently making mistakes that favor one team over multiple games, it overshadows the teams’ individual efforts. I’m not even suggesting the Green Bay bias is necessarily intentional, but either way, the consistent mistakes and inconsistent application of the rules that benefit only one team is a problem that can’t keep happening.

People around here act like it’s a Vikings vs Green Bay issue, and I get that. But it’s not... it’s a Green Bay vs anyone issue. Just pay attention to fan bases that play Green Bay each week, and you’ll see a pattern, and it’s just IMO

Funkytown
Owner

Purple Pain Big Dog

Posts: 67,657

Likes: 31,578
Fan Since: 1998

the big bad refs that are out to get us Oct 15, 2019 11:09:20 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Funkytown on Oct 15, 2019 11:09:20 GMT -6

The entire first page of r/nfl is talking about the bad officiating last night. I don't think I've ever seen the entire first page dedicated to one topic before. That's how big this is. Current players, former players, former coaches, a lot of media members, etc. Everyone is blowing this up. As they should be.

And look at this:

Not called for it for his entire career ... OR AT ALL DURING THE EFFING GAME UNTIL THEN??! Nothing to see here, folks! NOTH-ING. TO. SEE.

Look at this gem:

Oct 15, 2019 9:27:46 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

13 players on the field. Allowed to call a time out. Lions actually snapped the ball.  This is the next series after the Lions were called for 12 men lined up.  Next play, Stafford was sacked.