The REAL reason why I haven't been a fan of Cousins lately

JHitTheB
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The REAL reason why I haven't been a fan of Cousins lately Sept 2, 2019 15:17:40 GMT -6 Funkytown and EricTheViking like this

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Post by JHitTheB on Sept 2, 2019 15:17:40 GMT -6

Sept 2, 2019 12:16:34 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Sept 2, 2019 12:04:07 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

It is the all important stat for a QB. There are exceptions to every rule, but if you go down the list of HOF QBs, almost all have winning records.

I also wonder if Namath is considered as great as he is if he didn't win that SB for the Jets? Seems like a large part of his "greatness" came from winning, no?

There are stats to backup the fact that QB play is one of the biggest deciding factors in winning football games.
In wins, the average passer rating since 2016 is 103, YPA is 7.8, with .48 ints per game.

In losses, the average passer rating is 78, YPA is 6.5, with 1.14 ints per game

That is a massive and very expected difference in play in wins versus losses. It includes some pretty awful QBs though, so lets look at above average QBs to see what they do in wins versus losses

Lets take Cousins' stats in losses versus Brady's:

Passer rating
81 vs 75

YPA
6.8 vs 6.5

Fumbles + ints per game
2.3 vs 1.9

Cousins has the advantage in YPA, Brady in turnvovers.

To lose, both QBs had to play at a similar level, but the difference is Brady averages games like that in 23% of his games, while Cousins does it in a little over half his games. Which is why one is a .500 QB, the other is the GOAT. 61 losses in 268 games versus 40 losses in 76 games.

Right, And team defense has nothing to do with it. IT's all on the QB. Got it.

Average ppg given up by Brady's defense in games he's played 18.6
Average ppg given up by Cousins defense in games he's played 24.0
Brady's win percentage in games were his defense gave up 24 points per game or more. 51% Wow, look at that, a .500 QB when his team gives up 24 ppg or more. But yeah, it's all the QB that's responsible for win-loss.

The Patriots have posted 15 top 10 scoring Ds in the last 19 seasons with a good number in the top 5. That is just insane. Defense wins championships. But of course, Tom gets all the credit.

Cousins is a good QB. He's just not clutch at all - disappears in big games and in crunch time. I think if Dalvin stays healthy this year a lot of the pressure is off his shoulders though.

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vikecycle
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The REAL reason why I haven't been a fan of Cousins lately Sept 2, 2019 15:36:11 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikecycle on Sept 2, 2019 15:36:11 GMT -6

Sept 2, 2019 12:04:07 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Sept 2, 2019 8:59:07 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Ah yes. The all important win-loss record is the most important stat for a QB. One player on a team of 22 and if they don't win it's his fault. You should really look at the defense's over the years of QB's that have won on a consistent basis. Like Brady, and Rodgers. There's a reason Brady has 77% winning percentage and Rodgers only has a 63% winning percentage. And it's not skill set. But then Joe Namath sucked right? Because he has a losing record. Actually he did suck. He was a terrible QB that got lucky. 13 years, 3 winning seasons.

It is the all important stat for a QB. There are exceptions to every rule, but if you go down the list of HOF QBs, almost all have winning records.

I also wonder if Namath is considered as great as he is if he didn't win that SB for the Jets? Seems like a large part of his "greatness" came from winning, no?

There are stats to backup the fact that QB play is one of the biggest deciding factors in winning football games.
In wins, the average passer rating since 2016 is 103, YPA is 7.8, with .48 ints per game.

In losses, the average passer rating is 78, YPA is 6.5, with 1.14 ints per game

That is a massive and very expected difference in play in wins versus losses. It includes some pretty awful QBs though, so lets look at above average QBs to see what they do in wins versus losses

Lets take Cousins' stats in losses versus Brady's:

Passer rating
81 vs 75

YPA
6.8 vs 6.5

Fumbles + ints per game
2.3 vs 1.9

Cousins has the advantage in YPA, Brady in turnvovers.

To lose, both QBs had to play at a similar level, but the difference is Brady averages games like that in 23% of his games, while Cousins does it in a little over half his games. Which is why one is a .500 QB, the other is the GOAT. 61 losses in 268 games versus 40 losses in 76 games.

Is Terry Bradshaw better then Dan Marino, Steve Young, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers?

Being on the best team doesn't make you the best player.

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The REAL reason why I haven't been a fan of Cousins lately Sept 2, 2019 15:52:50 GMT -6 Funkytown, EricTheViking, and 1 more like this

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Post by whoskmoon on Sept 2, 2019 15:52:50 GMT -6

Sept 2, 2019 12:16:34 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Sept 2, 2019 12:04:07 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

It is the all important stat for a QB. There are exceptions to every rule, but if you go down the list of HOF QBs, almost all have winning records.

I also wonder if Namath is considered as great as he is if he didn't win that SB for the Jets? Seems like a large part of his "greatness" came from winning, no?

There are stats to backup the fact that QB play is one of the biggest deciding factors in winning football games.
In wins, the average passer rating since 2016 is 103, YPA is 7.8, with .48 ints per game.

In losses, the average passer rating is 78, YPA is 6.5, with 1.14 ints per game

That is a massive and very expected difference in play in wins versus losses. It includes some pretty awful QBs though, so lets look at above average QBs to see what they do in wins versus losses

Lets take Cousins' stats in losses versus Brady's:

Passer rating
81 vs 75

YPA
6.8 vs 6.5

Fumbles + ints per game
2.3 vs 1.9

Cousins has the advantage in YPA, Brady in turnvovers.

To lose, both QBs had to play at a similar level, but the difference is Brady averages games like that in 23% of his games, while Cousins does it in a little over half his games. Which is why one is a .500 QB, the other is the GOAT. 61 losses in 268 games versus 40 losses in 76 games.

Right, And team defense has nothing to do with it. IT's all on the QB. Got it.

Average ppg given up by Brady's defense in games he's played 18.6
Average ppg given up by Cousins defense in games he's played 24.0
Brady's win percentage in games were his defense gave up 24 points per game or more. 51% Wow, look at that, a .500 QB when his team gives up 24 ppg or more. But yeah, it's all the QB that's responsible for win-loss.

No one said it was? They do have a huge impact on W-L, and a great QB will win more than they lose, but they aren't the only factor.

Cousins defenses didn't average 24 ppg given up btw. You forget that Cousins leads the league in turnovers resulting in TDs since 2015 (I am sure that has no impact on his team's ability to win) so in reality it is like 22 points ppg given up. Which would have had them around where the 7-9 Redskins were this year, with Alex Smith, Colt McCoy and guys signed off the street. There is also the fact that QBs can have a significant impact on how many drives their team has to defend, how short of field they have to defend, and can have a big impact on ppg given up in that way.

Finally, you point out that Brady is a .500 QB in games where his defense gave up 24 or more? Cousins is 6 in 31. He is a guy who will win when everything goes right, and lose when faced with adversity. Which is why he is a .500 QB. That is just who he is, and we paid 84 million guaranteed for it.

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The REAL reason why I haven't been a fan of Cousins lately Sept 2, 2019 15:55:21 GMT -6 Reignman and Funkytown like this

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Post by whoskmoon on Sept 2, 2019 15:55:21 GMT -6

Sept 2, 2019 15:17:40 GMT -6 JHitTheB said:

Sept 2, 2019 12:16:34 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Right, And team defense has nothing to do with it. IT's all on the QB. Got it.

Average ppg given up by Brady's defense in games he's played 18.6
Average ppg given up by Cousins defense in games he's played 24.0
Brady's win percentage in games were his defense gave up 24 points per game or more. 51% Wow, look at that, a .500 QB when his team gives up 24 ppg or more. But yeah, it's all the QB that's responsible for win-loss.

The Patriots have posted 15 top 10 scoring Ds in the last 19 seasons with a good number in the top 5. That is just insane. Defense wins championships. But of course, Tom gets all the credit.

Cousins is a good QB. He's just not clutch at all - disappears in big games and in crunch time. I think if Dalvin stays healthy this year a lot of the pressure is off his shoulders though.

Brady helps his defense out a ton by keeping them off the field. Same with Rodgers.

You remove those two or they have a down year like Rodgers did this year, and the defense regresses.

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The REAL reason why I haven't been a fan of Cousins lately Sept 2, 2019 16:16:04 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikecycle on Sept 2, 2019 16:16:04 GMT -6

Sept 2, 2019 15:55:21 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Sept 2, 2019 15:17:40 GMT -6 JHitTheB said:

The Patriots have posted 15 top 10 scoring Ds in the last 19 seasons with a good number in the top 5. That is just insane. Defense wins championships. But of course, Tom gets all the credit.

Cousins is a good QB. He's just not clutch at all - disappears in big games and in crunch time. I think if Dalvin stays healthy this year a lot of the pressure is off his shoulders though.

Brady helps his defense out a ton by keeping them off the field. Same with Rodgers.

You remove those two or they have a down year like Rodgers did this year, and the defense regresses.

Brady had had multiple years worse then Rodgers 2018 season, with top 10 Ds. 2013 comes to mind.

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JHitTheB
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The REAL reason why I haven't been a fan of Cousins lately Sept 2, 2019 20:59:49 GMT -6 Reignman and Funkytown like this

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Post by JHitTheB on Sept 2, 2019 20:59:49 GMT -6

Kinda speaks volumes as to how good Aaron really is if 4600 yds 25 TDs 2 INTs is a "down year." Almost the same exact stat line as Brady last year except Aaron did it on one leg and with no OL.

I'll be that guy and say Tom on any other team has 0 rings. Maybe 1 or 2 with Sea, Den, or Bal with some of the Ds they have produced but I don't think Tom could ever actually carry a team with a suspect D or OL. Also Beli has a winning record WITHOUT Brady which leads me to believe the system is responsible for their success more than anything. Beli is the undeniable GOAT - and that is coming from a guy that has touched Lombardi's bust in Canton lol.

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The REAL reason why I haven't been a fan of Cousins lately Sept 3, 2019 2:53:15 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Sept 3, 2019 2:53:15 GMT -6

Sept 2, 2019 20:59:49 GMT -6 JHitTheB said:

Kinda speaks volumes as to how good Aaron really is if 4600 yds 25 TDs 2 INTs is a "down year." Almost the same exact stat line as Brady last year except Aaron did it on one leg and with no OL.

I'll be that guy and say Tom on any other team has 0 rings. Maybe 1 or 2 with Sea, Den, or Bal with some of the Ds they have produced but I don't think Tom could ever actually carry a team with a suspect D or OL. Also Beli has a winning record WITHOUT Brady which leads me to believe the system is responsible for their success more than anything. Beli is the undeniable GOAT - and that is coming from a guy that has touched Lombardi's bust in Canton lol.

That's the whole point. Brady on any other team is an average QB. Look at the 20 games the Pats played without Brady. 14-6. 12 of those games the ppg were under 21 points. (10-2) 8 were 24 ppg or more, In those 8 the Pats went 4-4. QB didn't matter.

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The REAL reason why I haven't been a fan of Cousins lately Sept 4, 2019 14:51:27 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Sept 4, 2019 14:51:27 GMT -6

Sept 2, 2019 20:59:49 GMT -6 JHitTheB said:

Kinda speaks volumes as to how good Aaron really is if 4600 yds 25 TDs 2 INTs is a "down year." Almost the same exact stat line as Brady last year except Aaron did it on one leg and with no OL.

I'll be that guy and say Tom on any other team has 0 rings. Maybe 1 or 2 with Sea, Den, or Bal with some of the Ds they have produced but I don't think Tom could ever actually carry a team with a suspect D or OL. Also Beli has a winning record WITHOUT Brady which leads me to believe the system is responsible for their success more than anything. Beli is the undeniable GOAT - and that is coming from a guy that has touched Lombardi's bust in Canton lol.

Hey, I finally agree with a Packer fan on something. Yes, the Packers are indeed an Aaron Rodgers away from being the Cleveland Browns. No arguments from me there.

Your take on Brady is pretty funny though. How does playing on a good team make you an average QB? What kind of logic is that? What more could the guy do to prove he is one of, if not the greatest QBs of all time? Win 4 more SBs so he can have a ring on each finger. Wow.

JHitTheB
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The REAL reason why I haven't been a fan of Cousins lately Sept 4, 2019 21:17:20 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by JHitTheB on Sept 4, 2019 21:17:20 GMT -6

Sept 4, 2019 14:51:27 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Sept 2, 2019 20:59:49 GMT -6 JHitTheB said:

Kinda speaks volumes as to how good Aaron really is if 4600 yds 25 TDs 2 INTs is a "down year." Almost the same exact stat line as Brady last year except Aaron did it on one leg and with no OL.

I'll be that guy and say Tom on any other team has 0 rings. Maybe 1 or 2 with Sea, Den, or Bal with some of the Ds they have produced but I don't think Tom could ever actually carry a team with a suspect D or OL. Also Beli has a winning record WITHOUT Brady which leads me to believe the system is responsible for their success more than anything. Beli is the undeniable GOAT - and that is coming from a guy that has touched Lombardi's bust in Canton lol.

Hey, I finally agree with a Packer fan on something. Yes, the Packers are indeed an Aaron Rodgers away from being the Cleveland Browns. No arguments from me there.

Your take on Brady is pretty funny though. How does playing on a good team make you an average QB? What kind of logic is that? What more could the guy do to prove he is one of, if not the greatest QBs of all time? Win 4 more SBs so he can have a ring on each finger. Wow.

Well, what has Brady ever been the best at? He doesn't have the best arm. He's not the most accurate. He's not going to beat you with his legs. He's ass outside of the pocket. Even in college he was average at best. There's a reason why he lasted till the 7th round.

BUT - he does exactly what Beli asks of him and that is all that is needed for that team to be successful. Beli's system doesn't need to rely on elite QB talent. Cassel took the team to a 10-6 record the 1 time Brady was out and they only missed the playoffs that year due to a tie breaker. Jimmy G started his career in NE undefeated. Brady is the epitome of a system QB. He stands in the pocket and delivers quick strikes to guys schemed open and hands off to the RB. He's not going to beat you if the play breaks down like a Rodgers or Mahomes can. He simply moves on to the next play. The Patriots are stacked on both sides of the ball every year. They always have a solid OL, a good run game and stellar defense. 15 top 10 scoring Ds in 18 seasons (this will be season 19) with many of those being top 5 (7 top 5). No other QB in the history of the game can say that. No TEAM can say that. In fact, the WORST scoring defense Tom has ever had behind him is 15th once, 17th 2x. I would argue Peyton, Brees, Rivers, Ryan, Rodgers would all have more rings than Tom with that kind of defense behind them year in and year out. Tom on any other team is just a regular guy. Slightly above average at best. He simply doesn't possess the talent to carry a team on his own. He has benefited from the greatest coach/defensive mind of all time and major talent around him, especially on defense, in a very weak division that hasn't been very competitive the last 20 years and an uncanny ability to avoid injury. Most seasons the AFCE was basically 6 free wins for NE.

Shall we break down the rings? Tuck rule, Adam Vinateri x2, Malcolm Butler INT, Defense holding ATL's offense to 1 score over the final 38 minutes along with one of the luckiest/craziest catches you will ever see by Edelman. I put that catch right up there with Antonio Freeman's catch against the Vikes.

Oh - stats you say? Well sure. If you play long enough eventually you will rack up enough stats to break records. Even if I drive my car only 3,000 miles every year I will eventually get to 100,000 and beyond. It took a Peyton Manning neck injury and retirement for Tom to catch his numbers.

Defense wins championships and championships are a TEAM stat. But of course, QBs always get all the credit.

But let's also not forget, the Patriots absolutely do cheat:

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The REAL reason why I haven't been a fan of Cousins lately Sept 4, 2019 22:03:15 GMT -6 Reignman and Funkytown like this

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Post by Danchat on Sept 4, 2019 22:03:15 GMT -6

Sept 4, 2019 21:17:20 GMT -6 JHitTheB said:

Well, what has Brady ever been the best at? He doesn't have the best arm. He's not the most accurate. He's not going to beat you with his legs. He's a$$ outside of the pocket. Even in college he was average at best. There's a reason why he lasted till the ~~7th~~ 6th round.

You're not wrong... so what has Brady been the best at? Clutch situations. When it's late and Brady needs to step it up and win the game? He almost always does - that's why they call him the GOAT. Doesn't matter if it's a primetime game, on the road, against a team with a winning record, a playoff game... he gets the job done. Belichick is the greatest NFL coach of all time and that gives Brady an amazing supporting staff, but he still has to go out there and play ball. All of the clutch situations, the big time throws, Brady did it all. The dude's 42 now, why hasn't Belichick replaced him with a cheaper alternative? The answer's easy - he's still a top tier QB at such an advanced age.

Outside of New England, would Brady have less rings? Yeah, I think so. But I still believe he would develop into a very good QB who has that "it" factor and can do it in clutch situations.

Sept 4, 2019 21:17:20 GMT -6 JHitTheB said:

Shall we break down the rings? Tuck rule, Adam Vinateri x2, Malcolm Butler INT, Defense holding ATL's offense to 1 score over the final 38 minutes along with one of the luckiest/craziest catches you will ever see by Edelman. I put that catch right up there with Antonio Freeman's catch against the Vikes.

Uh, you realize Brady had to get the ball to where Vinatieri made those kicks, right? Are you putting those two rings on Vinatieri alone?

I don't put W-L records on QBs directly, it's a team game. QBs have the biggest influence on the record, but they should never be solely responsible for it. Even when the Patriots lose, it's usually not on Brady - how about the latest Patriots-Eagles Super Bowl? Brady had one of the best games of his career, but his team still lost because his defense forgot how to play football. When's the last time you ever watched a Patriots game, they lost, and you found yourself saying "Brady lost that one" or "Brady had a bad game!". I've never seen such a long run of consistently great football from a QB like him before.

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The REAL reason why I haven't been a fan of Cousins lately Sept 4, 2019 23:32:05 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by Reignman on Sept 4, 2019 23:32:05 GMT -6

Sept 2, 2019 15:52:50 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

You forget that Cousins leads the league in turnovers resulting in TDs since 2015 (I am sure that has no impact on his team's ability to win) so in reality it is like 22 points ppg given up.

I don't know about fumbles, but here are the pick-6 leaders since 2015 and their W-L record. I would say guys aren't winning a whole lot of games when they give up a pick-6 lol, but Cousins has been the better QB at overcoming them.

               PICK-6  W-L
K.Cousins          8   4-4
P.Rivers           8   2-6
B.Bortles          7   0-7
M.Stafford         6   2-4
M.Mariota          6   2-4
M.Ryan             5   2-3
D.Carr             5   0-5
E.Manning          4   0-4
D.Brees            4   2-2
C.Newton           4   0-4
M.Cassel           4   0-4
R.Tannehill        4   1-3
J.Rosen            4   0-4
T.Brady            3   2-1
A.Rodgers          1   1-0

And this is since 2006:

               PICK-6  W-L
E.Manning         20   5-15
P.Rivers          20   8-12
D.Brees           19   5-14
C.Palmer          17   5-12
P.Manning         16   7-9
J.Cutler          16   7-9
M.Stafford        16   3-13
M.Ryan            15   6-9
M.Schaub          14   3-11
B.Roethlisberger  13   4-9
T.Romo            13   3-10
R.Fitzpatrick     11   1-10
A.Dalton          11   6-5
B.Bortles         11   0-11
B.Favre           10   3-7
J.Flacco          10   2-8
A.Luck            10   4-6
K.Cousins         10   4-6
T.Brady            6   3-3
A.Rodgers          2   1-1

There are a bunch of guys between Brady/Rodgers and Cousins here, just wanted to put them on the list for comparison.

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

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The REAL reason why I haven't been a fan of Cousins lately Sept 5, 2019 7:31:44 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Sept 5, 2019 7:31:44 GMT -6

Sept 4, 2019 23:32:05 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Sept 2, 2019 15:52:50 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

You forget that Cousins leads the league in turnovers resulting in TDs since 2015 (I am sure that has no impact on his team's ability to win) so in reality it is like 22 points ppg given up.

I don't know about fumbles, but here are the pick-6 leaders since 2015 and their W-L record. I would say guys aren't winning a whole lot of games when they give up a pick-6 lol, but Cousins has been the better QB at overcoming them.

               PICK-6  W-L
K.Cousins          8   4-4
P.Rivers           8   2-6
B.Bortles          7   0-7
M.Stafford         6   2-4
M.Mariota          6   2-4
M.Ryan             5   2-3
D.Carr             5   0-5
E.Manning          4   0-4
D.Brees            4   2-2
C.Newton           4   0-4
M.Cassel           4   0-4
R.Tannehill        4   1-3
J.Rosen            4   0-4
T.Brady            3   2-1
A.Rodgers          1   1-0

And this is since 2006:

               PICK-6  W-L
E.Manning         20   5-15
P.Rivers          20   8-12
D.Brees           19   5-14
C.Palmer          17   5-12
P.Manning         16   7-9
J.Cutler          16   7-9
M.Stafford        16   3-13
M.Ryan            15   6-9
M.Schaub          14   3-11
B.Roethlisberger  13   4-9
T.Romo            13   3-10
R.Fitzpatrick     11   1-10
A.Dalton          11   6-5
B.Bortles         11   0-11
B.Favre           10   3-7
J.Flacco          10   2-8
A.Luck            10   4-6
K.Cousins         10   4-6
T.Brady            6   3-3
A.Rodgers          2   1-1

There are a bunch of guys between Brady/Rodgers and Cousins here, just wanted to put them on the list for comparison.

Surprised to see Dalton is the only QB with a winning record when throwing a pick six.

Why 2006 btw? Cousins has the least starts of anyone on that list outside of maybe Fitz. Most by quite a bit.

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The REAL reason why I haven't been a fan of Cousins lately Sept 5, 2019 8:55:30 GMT -6

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Post by Oracle Bone Diviner on Sept 5, 2019 8:55:30 GMT -6

Sept 4, 2019 21:17:20 GMT -6 JHitTheB said:

Sept 4, 2019 14:51:27 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Hey, I finally agree with a Packer fan on something. Yes, the Packers are indeed an Aaron Rodgers away from being the Cleveland Browns. No arguments from me there.

Your take on Brady is pretty funny though. How does playing on a good team make you an average QB? What kind of logic is that? What more could the guy do to prove he is one of, if not the greatest QBs of all time? Win 4 more SBs so he can have a ring on each finger. Wow.

Well, what has Brady ever been the best at? He doesn't have the best arm. He's not the most accurate. He's not going to beat you with his legs. He's a$$ outside of the pocket. Even in college he was average at best. There's a reason why he lasted till the 7th round.

BUT - he does exactly what Beli asks of him and that is all that is needed for that team to be successful. Beli's system doesn't need to rely on elite QB talent. Cassel took the team to a 10-6 record the 1 time Brady was out and they only missed the playoffs that year due to a tie breaker. Jimmy G started his career in NE undefeated. Brady is the epitome of a system QB. He stands in the pocket and delivers quick strikes to guys schemed open and hands off to the RB. He's not going to beat you if the play breaks down like a Rodgers or Mahomes can. He simply moves on to the next play. The Patriots are stacked on both sides of the ball every year. They always have a solid OL, a good run game and stellar defense. 15 top 10 scoring Ds in 18 seasons (this will be season 19) with many of those being top 5 (7 top 5). No other QB in the history of the game can say that. No TEAM can say that. In fact, the WORST scoring defense Tom has ever had behind him is 15th once, 17th 2x. I would argue Peyton, Brees, Rivers, Ryan, Rodgers would all have more rings than Tom with that kind of defense behind them year in and year out. Tom on any other team is just a regular guy. Slightly above average at best. He simply doesn't possess the talent to carry a team on his own. He has benefited from the greatest coach/defensive mind of all time and major talent around him, especially on defense, in a very weak division that hasn't been very competitive the last 20 years and an uncanny ability to avoid injury. Most seasons the AFCE was basically 6 free wins for NE.

Shall we break down the rings? Tuck rule, Adam Vinateri x2, Malcolm Butler INT, Defense holding ATL's offense to 1 score over the final 38 minutes along with one of the luckiest/craziest catches you will ever see by Edelman. I put that catch right up there with Antonio Freeman's catch against the Vikes.

Oh - stats you say? Well sure. If you play long enough eventually you will rack up enough stats to break records. Even if I drive my car only 3,000 miles every year I will eventually get to 100,000 and beyond. It took a Peyton Manning neck injury and retirement for Tom to catch his numbers.

Defense wins championships and championships are a TEAM stat. But of course, QBs always get all the credit.

But let's also not forget, the Patriots absolutely do cheat:

Hilarious. At least Vikings fans aren't the only deluded ones...

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The REAL reason why I haven't been a fan of Cousins lately Sept 5, 2019 9:24:00 GMT -6

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Post by JHitTheB on Sept 5, 2019 9:24:00 GMT -6

Sept 4, 2019 22:03:15 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Sept 4, 2019 21:17:20 GMT -6 JHitTheB said:

Well, what has Brady ever been the best at? He doesn't have the best arm. He's not the most accurate. He's not going to beat you with his legs. He's a$$ outside of the pocket. Even in college he was average at best. There's a reason why he lasted till the ~~7th~~ 6th round.

You're not wrong... so what has Brady been the best at? Clutch situations. When it's late and Brady needs to step it up and win the game? He almost always does - that's why they call him the GOAT. Doesn't matter if it's a primetime game, on the road, against a team with a winning record, a playoff game... he gets the job done. Belichick is the greatest NFL coach of all time and that gives Brady an amazing supporting staff, but he still has to go out there and play ball. All of the clutch situations, the big time throws, Brady did it all. The dude's 42 now, why hasn't Belichick replaced him with a cheaper alternative? The answer's easy - he's still a top tier QB at such an advanced age.

Outside of New England, would Brady have less rings? Yeah, I think so. But I still believe he would develop into a very good QB who has that "it" factor and can do it in clutch situations.

Sept 4, 2019 21:17:20 GMT -6 JHitTheB said:

Shall we break down the rings? Tuck rule, Adam Vinateri x2, Malcolm Butler INT, Defense holding ATL's offense to 1 score over the final 38 minutes along with one of the luckiest/craziest catches you will ever see by Edelman. I put that catch right up there with Antonio Freeman's catch against the Vikes.

Uh, you realize Brady had to get the ball to where Vinatieri made those kicks, right? Are you putting those two rings on Vinatieri alone?

I don't put W-L records on QBs directly, it's a team game. QBs have the biggest influence on the record, but they should never be solely responsible for it. Even when the Patriots lose, it's usually not on Brady - how about the latest Patriots-Eagles Super Bowl? Brady had one of the best games of his career, but his team still lost because his defense forgot how to play football. When's the last time you ever watched a Patriots game, they lost, and you found yourself saying "Brady lost that one" or "Brady had a bad game!". I've never seen such a long run of consistently great football from a QB like him before.

I appreciate your view but I disagree with Brady being the best at being clutch - give me ARod with the game on the line any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Beli puts his team in the right call, in the right situation to succeed every time (helps when you know the other team's play calls). Yes, the plays have to be executed. But not just by the QB. EVERYONE has to execute. Which is my point. If someone fails to execute for Brees, Mahomes, Wilson or Rodgers they can still beat you on a busted play. Brady can't. Not with his arm or his legs. That's just facts. Brady isn't asked to do much other than hit the quick read. His "highlight reel" is basically step step step balls out.

And let's be honest - a lot of Tom's "clutch moments" are horrible calls/no calls going the Pats way. A quick search will turn up many poor Tom performances (too lazy to make a list right now)...and many instances of the Pats cheating right on national TV. They just aren't talked about because the Pats have been the NFL's poster boys since 9/11 - but that's a different discussion entirely.

100% agree W-L records are overrated because that is a TEAM stat. No QB is winning without an OL in front of him and defense behind him. Certain players might be able to steal a game or 2 but no QB - I don't care how talented - is going to be successful on his own.

I'm sorry but I just don't see Brady elevating a mediocre team. If Brady and Rodgers were swapped for their careers - do you honestly think Tom could carry the Packers horrible OL and D over the last decade AND overcome MM mismanaging games? He'd get obliterated every year not being able to escape all the sacks. The Bears and Vikes have put together some wicked defenses in the last decade that have sacked the bejesus out of and even injured ARod, despite his escapability - which I think we can all agree is leaps and bounds above Tom's, more than once. You think Tom is going to last taking all those hits? You think Tom was getting away from Urlacher? Or Barr? Or Mack? Or Kendricks? Do we agree the NFCN has been way more competitive than the AFCE over the last 20 years?

We've seen what the Pats do without Brady. They still win, even with ROOKIES starting.

We've seen GB without Aaron - less than .500

But 6 rings! 6 rings! 6 rings! Yeah. 15 top 10 scoring defenses in 18 seasons - 7 of those top 5. Even without Brady the Pats would have rings. Now obviously just being a QB on those teams doesn't automatically = wins but a decent game manager that can do what is asked of him within that system will be successful. Alex Smith would have 6 or more. Big Ben...Wilson...Rodgers...Manning (both of them)...Brees...Rivers...Ryan...would all have just as many if not MORE rings than Tom on those teams.

Edit:

Here is an excellent example of what the Pats do. Nothing fancy. They simply figure out what you're doing and then figure out how to beat it and then draw up plays that get their guys in position to be successful. They waited patiently till they got the look and match up they wanted and then exploited it. No heroic, superman type performance from one player needed.

www.nfl.com/videos/do-your-job/0ap3000001051013/Belichick-McDaniels-break-down-SBLIII-s-lone-TD-drive-Do-Your-Job-III

Last Edit: Sept 5, 2019 11:22:34 GMT -6 by JHitTheB

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The REAL reason why I haven't been a fan of Cousins lately Sept 5, 2019 13:34:16 GMT -6 Reignman and Funkytown like this

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Post by Will on Sept 5, 2019 13:34:16 GMT -6

It would be interesting to know if Cousins would have been willing to restructure his contract. It would also be interesting to know if the Vikings were interested in extending his deal after his performance in 2018.
As a Vikings fan, I don't care about Cousins' individual stats. I care about Wins - especially playoff wins. Cousins has the individual talent to win more games, and the Vikings have the player and coaching talent to win more this year. While he is not an elite QB, he is good, and if he plays well this year, that performance probably qualifies him as a franchise QB, and it probably means an extension. If he plays poorly on this team with better coaches and a better scheme, he probably qualifies as an expensive bust!
I want the Vikings to win a Super Bowl, and the Vikings will be a pleasure to watch this year if they win big games against good teams. Here's to hoping they win big games and go far in the playoffs. Skol Vikes!