Why do you think Zimmer is a good HC?

Reignman
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Why do you think Zimmer is a good HC? Oct 2, 2019 13:12:37 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan likes this

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Post by Reignman on Oct 2, 2019 13:12:37 GMT -6

Oct 2, 2019 10:58:52 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

You give Zimmer's offenses Brady, Roethlisberger, Wilson, or Brees, and the consistency that comes with them over the past handful of years - and his winning percentage goes up significantly, does it not? Let's not minimize the winning he's been able to do with zero consistency at the QB position. It matters.

Why doesn't Zim shoulder the blame for some of the inconsistency at QB? Doesn't he have a say in what QB we have? If not, why not? Did he want Teddy? Because that's where our inconsistencies began. He chose a QB who was all wrong for what Norv was trying to run, or he chose an OC who was all wrong for what he was trying to run. Then he chose Flipper, a guy who was pass happy. How did that interview go? Did Flipper lie to them about how often he likes to pass, or did they not think to ask him? Did Zim have any input on bringing Cousins in? I don't think I'd like either answer. Why wouldn't the GM trust what his HC thinks about QB's? And why would Zim want a turnover prone gunslinger like Cousins if his philosophy is to play it safe and protect his defense? When you add everything up, Zim either doesn't seem to know what he's doing, or his opinion isn't included on major decisions. Not good either way.

Oct 2, 2019 11:15:07 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

I'm pretty sure Zimmer emphasizes scoring points and taking care of the football, but what do I know? I'm sure he even told Stefanski and Kubiak to do just that - not that he should have to though; they should probably already know the basics...

Based on his play it safe philosophy, I would say he either doesn't care about scoring points, or he doesn't know what it takes to score points because playing it safe is not the best way to score points. In the AIR/YAC thread, I showed how it was better to be more aggressive. Do coaches not know this? I figured that's why they went out to get Cousins because they finally figured out that you can't fill trophy cases with game managers. But nope, we're right back to game managing and mediocrity.

Worst of all, someone got rid of Sloter. Ignore everything you want about Sloter, but you can't ignore how he was a winner. He was clutch, he was everything you wanted in a QB that you can't teach, and we threw him away because he was apparently bad at a few things that are teachable. Because why? We didn't have the patience? I see nothing but evidence that suggests Zim doesn't know the first thing about QB's or offense or how to score points in this league, so I'm feeling less sorry about the QB situation he most likely put himself in. He wanted to be a HC but he's still acting like a DC.

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

bdillon0820
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Why do you think Zimmer is a good HC? Oct 2, 2019 14:16:32 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by bdillon0820 on Oct 2, 2019 14:16:32 GMT -6

Oct 2, 2019 13:12:37 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Oct 2, 2019 10:58:52 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

You give Zimmer's offenses Brady, Roethlisberger, Wilson, or Brees, and the consistency that comes with them over the past handful of years - and his winning percentage goes up significantly, does it not? Let's not minimize the winning he's been able to do with zero consistency at the QB position. It matters.

Why doesn't Zim shoulder the blame for some of the inconsistency at QB? Doesn't he have a say in what QB we have? If not, why not? Did he want Teddy? Because that's where our inconsistencies began. He chose a QB who was all wrong for what Norv was trying to run, or he chose an OC who was all wrong for what he was trying to run. Then he chose Flipper, a guy who was pass happy. How did that interview go? Did Flipper lie to them about how often he likes to pass, or did they not think to ask him? Did Zim have any input on bringing Cousins in? I don't think I'd like either answer. Why wouldn't the GM trust what his HC thinks about QB's? And why would Zim want a turnover prone gunslinger like Cousins if his philosophy is to play it safe and protect his defense? When you add everything up, Zim either doesn't seem to know what he's doing, or his opinion isn't included on major decisions. Not good either way.

Oct 2, 2019 11:15:07 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

I'm pretty sure Zimmer emphasizes scoring points and taking care of the football, but what do I know? I'm sure he even told Stefanski and Kubiak to do just that - not that he should have to though; they should probably already know the basics...

Based on his play it safe philosophy, I would say he either doesn't care about scoring points, or he doesn't know what it takes to score points because playing it safe is not the best way to score points. In the AIR/YAC thread, I showed how it was better to be more aggressive. Do coaches not know this? I figured that's why they went out to get Cousins because they finally figured out that you can't fill trophy cases with game managers. But nope, we're right back to game managing and mediocrity.

Worst of all, someone got rid of Sloter. Ignore everything you want about Sloter, but you can't ignore how he was a winner. He was clutch, he was everything you wanted in a QB that you can't teach, and we threw him away because he was apparently bad at a few things that are teachable. Because why? We didn't have the patience? I see nothing but evidence that suggests Zim doesn't know the first thing about QB's or offense or how to score points in this league, so I'm feeling less sorry about the QB situation he most likely put himself in. He wanted to be a HC but he's still acting like a DC.

LOL at the Sloter comments. How often did Sloter play against the starters? Sure, he looks great against 3rd stringers, but have you actually seen him play against an opposing team's starting line up? I think there is a reason why Sloter never beat out the QBs ahead of him on this team.

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Why do you think Zimmer is a good HC? Oct 2, 2019 15:21:26 GMT -6

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Post by Mondry on Oct 2, 2019 15:21:26 GMT -6

Oct 2, 2019 13:12:37 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Oct 2, 2019 10:58:52 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

You give Zimmer's offenses Brady, Roethlisberger, Wilson, or Brees, and the consistency that comes with them over the past handful of years - and his winning percentage goes up significantly, does it not? Let's not minimize the winning he's been able to do with zero consistency at the QB position. It matters.

Why doesn't Zim shoulder the blame for some of the inconsistency at QB? Doesn't he have a say in what QB we have? If not, why not? Did he want Teddy? Because that's where our inconsistencies began. He chose a QB who was all wrong for what Norv was trying to run, or he chose an OC who was all wrong for what he was trying to run. Then he chose Flipper, a guy who was pass happy. How did that interview go? Did Flipper lie to them about how often he likes to pass, or did they not think to ask him? Did Zim have any input on bringing Cousins in? I don't think I'd like either answer. Why wouldn't the GM trust what his HC thinks about QB's? And why would Zim want a turnover prone gunslinger like Cousins if his philosophy is to play it safe and protect his defense? When you add everything up, Zim either doesn't seem to know what he's doing, or his opinion isn't included on major decisions. Not good either way.

Oct 2, 2019 11:15:07 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

I'm pretty sure Zimmer emphasizes scoring points and taking care of the football, but what do I know? I'm sure he even told Stefanski and Kubiak to do just that - not that he should have to though; they should probably already know the basics...

Based on his play it safe philosophy, I would say he either doesn't care about scoring points, or he doesn't know what it takes to score points because playing it safe is not the best way to score points. In the AIR/YAC thread, I showed how it was better to be more aggressive. Do coaches not know this? I figured that's why they went out to get Cousins because they finally figured out that you can't fill trophy cases with game managers. But nope, we're right back to game managing and mediocrity.

Worst of all, someone got rid of Sloter. Ignore everything you want about Sloter, but you can't ignore how he was a winner. He was clutch, he was everything you wanted in a QB that you can't teach, and we threw him away because he was apparently bad at a few things that are teachable. Because why? We didn't have the patience? I see nothing but evidence that suggests Zim doesn't know the first thing about QB's or offense or how to score points in this league, so I'm feeling less sorry about the QB situation he most likely put himself in. He wanted to be a HC but he's still acting like a DC.

I had very similar thoughts, like if you just want to run the ball and move the chains while limiting mistakes they should have just kept Teddy. Instead we have a super expensive, more turnover prone QB but almost zero of the upside that comes with it. It's pretty clear Zimmer is happy to turn the offense over to someone else so he doesn't have to be responsible and there is always a scape goat to blame.

I just don't think this formula can work, even if we did find a genius coordinator to run the offensive side of the ball, they'd just be poached immediately like Pat Shurmur and we'll be starting all over again.

Another part of the formula that I think we have wrong is investing HEAVY draft capital (3 first round CB's, a top 10 pick in Anthony Barr, multiple other early round picks, etc) into the defensive side of the ball. One of the benefits of having a defensive minded coach is that he should be able to do more with less and if we could invest heavily into the offense while still having a top 10 defense that'd be a benefit. As it is now, I don't see the benefit, I would think there is a good number of defensive coordinators that could coach this much talent to the top 10. Turning guys like Holton Hill into viable starters so we don't have to spend first round pick after first round pick at CB would be a huge advantage for example and if we stick with Zimmer I hope to see more of that going forward.

Last Edit: Oct 2, 2019 15:22:50 GMT -6 by Mondry

Reignman
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Why do you think Zimmer is a good HC? Oct 2, 2019 15:59:45 GMT -6

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Post by Reignman on Oct 2, 2019 15:59:45 GMT -6

Oct 2, 2019 15:21:26 GMT -6 Mondry said:

Another part of the formula that I think we have wrong is investing HEAVY draft capital (3 first round CB's, a top 10 pick in Anthony Barr, multiple other early round picks, etc) into the defensive side of the ball. One of the benefits of having a defensive minded coach is that he should be able to do more with less and if we could invest heavily into the offense while still having a top 10 defense that'd be a benefit. As it is now, I don't see the benefit, I would think there is a good number of defensive coordinators that could coach this much talent to the top 10. Turning guys like Holton Hill into viable starters so we don't have to spend first round pick after first round pick at CB would be a huge advantage for example and if we stick with Zimmer I hope to see more of that going forward.

I don't think anyone has made a better point about Zimmer lol. Ofc we've wasted a few top picks on offense along the way, Treadwell, Teddy etc. But yeah a guru should be able to get more out of less. Isn't that what BB does in New England?

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

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Why do you think Zimmer is a good HC? Oct 2, 2019 16:07:08 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan likes this

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Post by Reignman on Oct 2, 2019 16:07:08 GMT -6

Oct 2, 2019 14:16:32 GMT -6 bdillon0820 said:

Oct 2, 2019 13:12:37 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Worst of all, someone got rid of Sloter. Ignore everything you want about Sloter, but you can't ignore how he was a winner. He was clutch, he was everything you wanted in a QB that you can't teach, and we threw him away because he was apparently bad at a few things that are teachable. Because why? We didn't have the patience? I see nothing but evidence that suggests Zim doesn't know the first thing about QB's or offense or how to score points in this league, so I'm feeling less sorry about the QB situation he most likely put himself in. He wanted to be a HC but he's still acting like a DC.

LOL at the Sloter comments. How often did Sloter play against the starters? Sure, he looks great against 3rd stringers, but have you actually seen him play against an opposing team's starting line up? I think there is a reason why Sloter never beat out the QBs ahead of him on this team.

Well that wasn't the argument and I'm not going to rehash it here, so I'll direct you to where I've thoroughly explained the argument 100 times already xD.

Here's the perfect post for you to start with. In fact it should be the only post you need. *thumb_up*

purplepainforums.com/post/97396/thread

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

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Why do you think Zimmer is a good HC? Oct 2, 2019 17:38:02 GMT -6

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Post by Oracle Bone Diviner on Oct 2, 2019 17:38:02 GMT -6

Oct 2, 2019 9:39:03 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Sept 15, 2019 22:00:40 GMT -6 @keeniac said:

13-25 vs winning teams.

We beat up Kirk all the time because of his record vs. winning teams. Zimmer has the same problem.

To be fair, 13-25 (.342) is slightly above league average which is .326 since 2002. However, with the Oracle Bone Diviner -tem, Zim is 13-21-1 (.386) and the league average is .411.

Cousins is well below average with both systems.

Don't be fooled by Reignman's sleight of hand...he still does not understand that the Nemisystem^tmis not approved for use in that fashion. The Nemisystemtm^tmis only a snapshot of where a team stands at any given point in any given single season. Using it for analyses that cross multiple seasons violates that rule.

There's a ringing in my ear and I think it's the Call of the Wild

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Why do you think Zimmer is a good HC? Oct 2, 2019 18:57:13 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by Danchat on Oct 2, 2019 18:57:13 GMT -6

Oct 2, 2019 13:12:37 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Why doesn't Zim shoulder the blame for some of the inconsistency at QB?

Well... because his original QB's knee blew up, and his replacement's knee wouldn't stop swelling up. That ain't on Zimmer.

It's his fault we're stuck with Cousins, but as for the inconsistency at the QB position 2016-2017, there's nothing he could have done. Plus, for all the inconsistency, they played pretty darn well. When Mike McCarthy can't get consistency at the QB position, they're a 7-9 team under him at best. At least with Zimmer you have the upside of being a playoff team even if your starting QB is out.

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Why do you think Zimmer is a good HC? Oct 2, 2019 19:08:34 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by OdinHammer on Oct 2, 2019 19:08:34 GMT -6

Oct 2, 2019 18:57:13 GMT -6 Danchat said:

It's his fault we're stuck with Cousins

It felt to me like Zimmer wanted Teddy but Spielman wanted Cousins. I have no evidence of this; that's just what it seemed like to me from a distance. Does anyone know if there were any interviews or anything on that?

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Why do you think Zimmer is a good HC? Oct 2, 2019 19:46:30 GMT -6 via mobile OdinHammer likes this

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Post by Funkytown on Oct 2, 2019 19:46:30 GMT -6

Oct 2, 2019 19:08:34 GMT -6 OdinHammer said:

Oct 2, 2019 18:57:13 GMT -6 Danchat said:

It's his fault we're stuck with Cousins

It felt to me like Zimmer wanted Teddy but Spielman wanted Cousins. I have no evidence of this; that's just what it seemed like to me from a distance. Does anyone know if there were any interviews or anything on that?

Rumor has it Zimmer preferred Bridgewater and/or Bradford, but because of the injuries/unknowns associated with their overall health and long-term availability...

...he, actually, then, preferred Keenum over Cousins. He wanted to stick with the guy he knew, save some money, and have a little more to work with in free agency and/or his defense.

I've asked this before, but I'll ask it again. Does it really seem like a Zimmer move to spend $84 million guaranteed on a QB he's never worked with? Or does a move like that seem more like it comes down from Spielman and/or the Wilfs? Just think about it. Really think about it.

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Why do you think Zimmer is a good HC? Oct 2, 2019 20:37:05 GMT -6 Reignman and Oracle Bone Diviner like this

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Post by Danchat on Oct 2, 2019 20:37:05 GMT -6

Oct 2, 2019 19:08:34 GMT -6 OdinHammer said:

It felt to me like Zimmer wanted Teddy but Spielman wanted Cousins. I

Oct 2, 2019 19:46:30 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

I've asked this before, but I'll ask it again. Does it really seem like a Zimmer move to spend $84 million guaranteed on a QB he's never worked with? Or does a move like that seem more like it comes down from Spielman and/or the Wilfs? Just think about it. Really think about it.

I remember reading articles that the decision on who the QB would be in 2018 was going to be between Spielman, Zimmer, and DeFillipo (I remember reading that they wanted the new OC to be directly plugged into their QB conversation). I know Zimmer loved Teddy, but I don't think he was ready to risk the 2018 season on Teddy's knee.

It seemed this group thought that they could get Cousins away from Washington's incompetent system and get him to improve his already solid stats. They just couldn't count on Teddy and Sammy's health, and we all know Zimmer couldn't trust Keenum. Cousins really did look like the best option, as the only other real option in Alex Smith had already proven he didn't have what it took to get to the next level.

Zimmer is this team's head coach, I can't imagine that Spielman simply demanded Cousins and Zimmer acquiesced. This is his team, and he had the chance to add the QB he wanted. I don't think Cousins has played at all like he imagined when they originally signed him. Something along the lines of "he can be a game manager, but when they need him to, he can bring the team back if they're trailing late (2018 W2 for example)". The miscalculations in this process were that 1) the O-line sucked, 2) DeFillipo appeared to have little idea what he was doing and 3) Cousins actually regressed the more he's played as a Viking. They also probably should have taken a look at his number of fumbles and realized that he was more of a headcase in Washington than we originally thought.

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Why do you think Zimmer is a good HC? Oct 2, 2019 20:55:56 GMT -6

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Post by Oracle Bone Diviner on Oct 2, 2019 20:55:56 GMT -6

Oct 2, 2019 19:46:30 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Oct 2, 2019 19:08:34 GMT -6 OdinHammer said:

It felt to me like Zimmer wanted Teddy but Spielman wanted Cousins. I have no evidence of this; that's just what it seemed like to me from a distance. Does anyone know if there were any interviews or anything on that?

Rumor has it Zimmer preferred Bridgewater and/or Bradford, but because of the injuries/unknowns associated with their overall health and long-term availability...

...he, actually, then, preferred Keenum over Cousins. He wanted to stick with the guy he knew, save some money, and have a little more to work with in free agency and/or his defense.

I've asked this before, but I'll ask it again. Does it really seem like a Zimmer move to spend $84 million guaranteed on a QB he's never worked with? Or does a move like that seem more like it comes down from Spielman and/or the Wilfs? Just think about it. Really think about it.

I can see Zimmer, in his ignorance of all things offense, believing that Cousins could be the next Teddy Bridgewater for many years to come. And they are sort of treating him the same with the run heavy game plan.

There's a ringing in my ear and I think it's the Call of the Wild

itinerant, noun; a person who works and wanders.

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Why do you think Zimmer is a good HC? Oct 3, 2019 4:08:53 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan likes this

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Post by Reignman on Oct 3, 2019 4:08:53 GMT -6

Oct 2, 2019 18:57:13 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Oct 2, 2019 13:12:37 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Why doesn't Zim shoulder the blame for some of the inconsistency at QB?

Well... because his original QB's knee blew up, and his replacement's knee wouldn't stop swelling up. That ain't on Zimmer.

What I meant by that is, forget the inconsistency, if Teddy was Zim's guy, and the knee never blows up, then what? We'd have consistency at QB but we'd be in the same mediocre situation. Consistency isn't always a good thing. No way we get to the NFCCG with Teddy in 2017, and we're sitting here with a QB who can't throw 20 TD's a season as we plod along to our annual 1-and-done wildcard appearance wondering why we never address the QB situation that's holding our team back lol. It's the same conversation.

Oct 2, 2019 19:08:34 GMT -6 OdinHammer said:

It felt to me like Zimmer wanted Teddy but Spielman wanted Cousins. I have no evidence of this; that's just what it seemed like to me from a distance.

Oct 2, 2019 19:46:30 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Rumor has it Zimmer preferred Bridgewater and/or Bradford, but because of the injuries/unknowns associated with their overall health and long-term availability...

I fail to see how this reflects well on Zimmer. Y'all act like Teddy is some lights out, winning, Super Bowl caliber QB and had we only held onto him we'd suddenly be contenders right now lol.

Who cares what Zimmer wanted. He's the problem here, his offensive philosophy. If Zimmer wants or thinks he's going to win anything with a play it safe game manager QB then Zimmer shouldn't be the HC period. I mean I can't believe everyone thinks our only options are Teddy or Cousins. What about door #3, anything else? How bout we try something new? I want to blow my brains out over how many fans want to go back to something that wasn't working. Something that never showed any signs of working. How low are the expectations around here? Are our only aspirations to be above .500 and eek into a wildcard spot every year? I'm beginning to think so. There's a culture of mediocrity around here.

Oct 2, 2019 19:46:30 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

I've asked this before, but I'll ask it again. Does it really seem like a Zimmer move to spend $84 million guaranteed on a QB he's never worked with? Or does a move like that seem more like it comes down from Spielman and/or the Wilfs? Just think about it. Really think about it.

I have thought about it and it only makes me wonder why they'd do that. That would mean they don't trust Zimmer. Why don't they trust him? Do they see the same failed offensively philosophy that I do, and they're trying to guide him into a philosophy that would be more successful? Sure Cousins and Flipper didn't work out, but at least Spielman and Wilf have the right idea, which is how we need to be more aggressive on offense and pass oriented. They seem to understand better than Zim that this is a passing league now and game managers only win participation trophies.

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

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Why do you think Zimmer is a good HC? Oct 3, 2019 9:28:19 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

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Post by Mondry on Oct 3, 2019 9:28:19 GMT -6

Oct 2, 2019 15:59:45 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Oct 2, 2019 15:21:26 GMT -6 Mondry said:

Another part of the formula that I think we have wrong is investing HEAVY draft capital (3 first round CB's, a top 10 pick in Anthony Barr, multiple other early round picks, etc) into the defensive side of the ball. One of the benefits of having a defensive minded coach is that he should be able to do more with less and if we could invest heavily into the offense while still having a top 10 defense that'd be a benefit. As it is now, I don't see the benefit, I would think there is a good number of defensive coordinators that could coach this much talent to the top 10. Turning guys like Holton Hill into viable starters so we don't have to spend first round pick after first round pick at CB would be a huge advantage for example and if we stick with Zimmer I hope to see more of that going forward.

But yeah a guru should be able to get more out of less. Isn't that what BB does in New England?

I don't know that he gets more out of less, but he has figured out how to find guys with traits that can excel at what he will need them to do in his system at a fairly high rate, even if they don't look like great players in other systems or no one else wants them. There have been a number of draft picks by NE that looked like head scratchers / reaches at the time but BB had identified them as a good fit for what he would need them to do and more often than not it's worked out.

Say what you will about having Brady and everything else but that is probably the most important reason they continue to have long term success in that they can let players go, not break the bank, and find someone else to do the same job as good or better at a much better price.

We are essentially the opposite, we over pay to keep the guys we have and hold on to ones like Rudolph who are long past useful contributors.

Last Edit: Oct 3, 2019 9:33:26 GMT -6 by Mondry

diehardtwinsfan
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Why do you think Zimmer is a good HC? Oct 3, 2019 9:33:59 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Oct 3, 2019 9:33:59 GMT -6

Oct 3, 2019 9:28:19 GMT -6 Mondry said:

Oct 2, 2019 15:59:45 GMT -6 Reignman said:

But yeah a guru should be able to get more out of less. Isn't that what BB does in New England?

I don't know that he gets more out of less, but he has figured out how to find guys with traits that can excel at what he will need them to do in his system at a fairly high rate. There have been a number of draft picks by NE that looked like head scratchers / reaches at the time but BB had identified them as a good fit for what he would need them to do and more often than not it's worked out.

Say what you will about having Brady and everything else but that is probably the most important reason they continue to have long term success in that they can let players go, not break the bank, and find someone else to do the same job as good or better at a much better price.

We are essentially the opposite, we over pay to keep the guys we have and hold on to ones like Rudolph who are long past useful contributors.

He does that well... and Rick does a good job finding them. Those are definitely traits needed for a successful coach... but as I've seen over and over again, he can stubbornly get in his way, and his teams are usually unprepared and out coached for big games....

The simple fact of the matter is the 2017 Rams game where he out coached McVay is more the exception than the rule....

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Why do you think Zimmer is a good HC? Oct 3, 2019 9:37:54 GMT -6 Mondry likes this

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Post by Reignman on Oct 3, 2019 9:37:54 GMT -6

Oct 3, 2019 9:28:19 GMT -6 Mondry said:

We are essentially the opposite, we over pay to keep the guys we have and hold on to ones like Rudolph who are long past useful contributors.

Amen to that brother. Most teams do that however, they pay for that loyalty a year or 2 too long. It's fine if you want to win participation trophies, or don't know how to find the replacement talent to fit your system, but it's not going to fill the trophy case. This is supposed to be a copycat league, but very few teams copy the little things that the Patriots do, like knowing how to finish a game thereby sending a message to your own players and the rest of the league. *whistle*