How much of a difference does a top QB really make?

Raptorman
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How much of a difference does a top QB really make? Jun 22, 2019 15:20:04 GMT -6 Funkytown and diehardtwinsfan like this

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Post by Raptorman on Jun 22, 2019 15:20:04 GMT -6

So in a discussion about Cousins on another forum I posted this. Now I don't claim that his is and end all be all assessment of QB's. But it is an indication of how much QB play really plays into wining. Bet you that most people would have never guessed that Culpepper out played Brady when he was with the Vikings. At least stat wise.

2000-2004 Comparison of 3 QB's. So Believe it or not, statistically, Culpepper was better than Brady those 5 years. Yet Brady won 3 Super Bowls during that time period. Why? If QB play is all that it's cracked up to be, why did the Vikings and the Packers not even make it to the Big game during those years?

	Passing Per Game					Passing 2000-2004						

Player	        Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate

Tom Brady	19.4	31.5	217.6	1.5	0.8	1243	2018	61.6	13925	97	52	87.5

D. Culpepper	21.1	32.8	254.8	1.8	1.0	1539	2391	64.4	18598	129	74	93.2

Brett Favre*	20.6	33.2	235.5	1.8	1.1	1647	2652	62.1	18840	141	85	87.8

What did NE have that the Packers and Vikings didn't have? Ummmm..... I wonder. Could it be that Brady had a defense that gave up less than 19 points per game during the regular season? The best defense Culpepper had was 23rd in ppg. 23rd.

Player	      Games	Wins	Losses	Ties	PPG	 SB's

Tom Brady	64	48	14	0	18.2      3

D. Culpepper	73	36	37	0	24.4      0

Brett Favre*	80	53	27	0	20.5      0




Defense ranked ppg 2000-2004.


Patriots.  17, 6, 17,  1,  2.   Average  8.6         BTW, the 6, 1 and 2 are the years they won the SB. 

Packers    14, 5, 12, 11, 23.   Average 13.0

Vikings    24 26, 30, 23, 26.   Average 25.8




So please, keep thinking that Brady is such a great freaking QB that NE couldn't win without him and that Cousins and our QB's are the reason for not getting back to the Super Bowl.   
The average Vikings defense in ppg since their last appearance in the Super Bowl and Zimmer being hired is 17.  In that time period, 37 years, the Vikings defense was a top 10 
defense in PPG 6 times.  Since Zimmer has been here, 5 years, they have been a top 10 team 4 of those, on the one that they weren't they were 11.  



So Yes, I am optimistic about my team's chances.  And yes, the QB does matter.  But not as much as people want to push and believe.

Last Edit: Jun 22, 2019 19:42:30 GMT -6 by Funkytown

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How much of a difference does a top QB really make? Jun 22, 2019 19:49:21 GMT -6 via mobile Danchat likes this

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Post by Funkytown on Jun 22, 2019 19:49:21 GMT -6

I'm just on mobile, so I can't see the whole picture as well as I want, but ...

Anything about offensive efficiency? TOP? Things like that? Sometimes Brady's ability to dink and dunk down the field, keep drives alive, keep the defense rested, etc. goes a long way. They come out looking like effing geniuses every year in the playoffs doing just that... it's sickening. lol.

No doubt a clutch QB like Brady helps a ton, but Belichick is the real genius over there...

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How much of a difference does a top QB really make? Jun 22, 2019 22:20:01 GMT -6

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Post by James on Jun 22, 2019 22:20:01 GMT -6

I mean if we're going off stats alone, Kirk Cousins is a top 5 QB. That means him, Case Keenum, Eli Manning out played Brady this past season. lol What separates Brady from the pack is that he is a really smart QB. He is also very clutch and I agree that coaching is a BIG part to his success as well. Last season, 8 other QBs had better stats than Brady. 6 out of those 8 QBs didn't even take their team to the playoffs.

Brady is known for making plays when it matters the most. He's not just padding stats and still losing games. Something that Cousins has done alot with the Redskins and partially here as well. Not that I'm putting full blame on him. But he's not able to extend drives or comeback from behind like Brady.

And I like Culpepper but lets not forget he had Randy Moss. Brady had Moss too for a little while but won every super bowl without him. Brady has won super bowls with nobodies as WRs. Whereas people like Cousins needs for the entire team to be stacked in order for him to be successful. Which is what we assumed because even that has not been proven yet. We assumed the team we have not is good enough to get into the playoffs.

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How much of a difference does a top QB really make? Jun 23, 2019 11:37:06 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Jun 23, 2019 11:37:06 GMT -6

Jun 22, 2019 22:20:01 GMT -6 James said:

I mean if we're going off stats alone, Kirk Cousins is a top 5 QB. That means him, Case Keenum, Eli Manning out played Brady this past season. lol What separates Brady from the pack is that he is a really smart QB. He is also very clutch and I agree that coaching is a BIG part to his success as well. Last season, 8 other QBs had better stats than Brady. 6 out of those 8 QBs didn't even take their team to the playoffs.

Brady is known for making plays when it matters the most. He's not just padding stats and still losing games. Something that Cousins has done alot with the Redskins and partially here as well. Not that I'm putting full blame on him. But he's not able to extend drives or comeback from behind like Brady.

And I like Culpepper but lets not forget he had Randy Moss. Brady had Moss too for a little while but won every super bowl without him. Brady has won super bowls with nobodies as WRs. Whereas people like Cousins needs for the entire team to be stacked in order for him to be successful. Which is what we assumed because even that has not been proven yet. We assumed the team we have not is good enough to get into the playoffs.

Thanks for helping me prove my point. When you have a good defense you don't need to be stacked at every position. You need a good QB that limits mistakes. Brady isn't the only QB that won SB with "no name" WR's. Without looking it up who was Kurt Warner throwing too? Brett Favre? Brad Johnson? Trent Dilfer? The whole point being that you don't need to be stacked to win the Super Bowl. What Belichick has done in NE should be something every team strives for. Consistency on defense with a good core of players. The players don't have to be top notch, they have to "buy" into the system and not make stupid mistakes. What's the one thing all those QB's above had? A good defense. What's the one reason why those teams only had one or two SB's before falling off? They weren't able to maintain that defense for an extended period of time. Or they did not maintain the QB position with the same player. Granted there will always be exceptions to the theory. But as far as I am concerned, as long as the Vikings continue to be a top 10 defense in Point per game, their chance of winning the Super Bowl goes up every year.

Last Edit: Jun 23, 2019 11:38:00 GMT -6 by Raptorman

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How much of a difference does a top QB really make? Jun 23, 2019 12:27:26 GMT -6

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Post by James on Jun 23, 2019 12:27:26 GMT -6

Jun 23, 2019 11:37:06 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Jun 22, 2019 22:20:01 GMT -6 James said:

I mean if we're going off stats alone, Kirk Cousins is a top 5 QB. That means him, Case Keenum, Eli Manning out played Brady this past season. lol What separates Brady from the pack is that he is a really smart QB. He is also very clutch and I agree that coaching is a BIG part to his success as well. Last season, 8 other QBs had better stats than Brady. 6 out of those 8 QBs didn't even take their team to the playoffs.

Brady is known for making plays when it matters the most. He's not just padding stats and still losing games. Something that Cousins has done alot with the Redskins and partially here as well. Not that I'm putting full blame on him. But he's not able to extend drives or comeback from behind like Brady.

And I like Culpepper but lets not forget he had Randy Moss. Brady had Moss too for a little while but won every super bowl without him. Brady has won super bowls with nobodies as WRs. Whereas people like Cousins needs for the entire team to be stacked in order for him to be successful. Which is what we assumed because even that has not been proven yet. We assumed the team we have not is good enough to get into the playoffs.

Thanks for helping me prove my point. When you have a good defense you don't need to be stacked at every position. You need a good QB that limits mistakes. Brady isn't the only QB that won SB with "no name" WR's. Without looking it up who was Kurt Warner throwing too? Brett Favre? Brad Johnson? Trent Dilfer? The whole point being that you don't need to be stacked to win the Super Bowl. What Belichick has done in NE should be something every team strives for. Consistency on defense with a good core of players. The players don't have to be top notch, they have to "buy" into the system and not make stupid mistakes. What's the one thing all those QB's above had? A good defense. What's the one reason why those teams only had one or two SB's before falling off? They weren't able to maintain that defense for an extended period of time. Or they did not maintain the QB position with the same player. Granted there will always be exceptions to the theory. But as far as I am concerned, as long as the Vikings continue to be a top 10 defense in Point per game, their chance of winning the Super Bowl goes up every year.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the Vikings still a top 10 defense last season? They did regress a little from 2017 but our defense wasn't that bad if that's what you're getting at. It's hard to much when opposing offenses have great field position due to consecutive 3 and outs on opening drives and sub par special teams play.

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How much of a difference does a top QB really make? Jun 23, 2019 16:02:52 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Jun 23, 2019 16:02:52 GMT -6

Jun 23, 2019 12:27:26 GMT -6 James said:

Jun 23, 2019 11:37:06 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Thanks for helping me prove my point. When you have a good defense you don't need to be stacked at every position. You need a good QB that limits mistakes. Brady isn't the only QB that won SB with "no name" WR's. Without looking it up who was Kurt Warner throwing too? Brett Favre? Brad Johnson? Trent Dilfer? The whole point being that you don't need to be stacked to win the Super Bowl. What Belichick has done in NE should be something every team strives for. Consistency on defense with a good core of players. The players don't have to be top notch, they have to "buy" into the system and not make stupid mistakes. What's the one thing all those QB's above had? A good defense. What's the one reason why those teams only had one or two SB's before falling off? They weren't able to maintain that defense for an extended period of time. Or they did not maintain the QB position with the same player. Granted there will always be exceptions to the theory. But as far as I am concerned, as long as the Vikings continue to be a top 10 defense in Point per game, their chance of winning the Super Bowl goes up every year.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the Vikings still a top 10 defense last season? They did regress a little from 2017 but our defense wasn't that bad if that's what you're getting at. It's hard to much when opposing offenses have great field position due to consecutive 3 and outs on opening drives and sub par special teams play.

Yes they were. But look at the teams that scored more than 19 ppg. NE, Green Bay Chicago, and the Rams. Those are the teams that have to be held to lower point totals. Not just the bad ones. Like I said, it's a team games. The QB can't do it by himself. Does he need to step up some games? Yes, but you can't count on any QB to carry a team every time the defense takes a game off.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.