Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread

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Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread Dec 12, 2018 12:37:55 GMT -6

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Post by Oracle Bone Diviner on Dec 12, 2018 12:37:55 GMT -6

Dec 12, 2018 10:57:32 GMT -6 purplectic said:

Dec 12, 2018 10:00:49 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner said:

I'm not seeing the Kirk love in DC that purplectic claims to exist. I've been visiting skins forums regularly and there are a few supporters but not that many. After recent games most are saying told ya so.

I never said that. Re-read my post.

I wasnt referring to that post alone, it has seemed to me like you have said that on a number of occasions. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but that's the impression I've gottten from a lot more than one of your posts.

The only thing I can think of that you got from my post is that I would like to ask these fans who they want now. The town was mostly in KC's camp during his time there but many were naturally hesitant to give him the money he wanted but overall the vast majority banged on management for first letting it go on so long and not signing him when it could've been less expensive to do so (before 2 franchise tags). Understand, many were pissed at Redskins management. Many. Over the course of a year, many of those have moved on.

I have definitely seen that crowd too, so you are right about that. Some just didn't think Kirk deserved a big contract, but were OK with him otherwise.

There's a ringing in my ear and I think it's the Call of the Wild

itinerant, noun; a person who works and wanders.

Deleted Ghosted Member Posts: 0 Likes:	Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread Dec 12, 2018 17:02:24 GMT -6 via mobile Reignman likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 17:02:24 GMT -6 Perspective

Danchat
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Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread Dec 12, 2018 19:26:25 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

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Post by Danchat on Dec 12, 2018 19:26:25 GMT -6

Dec 12, 2018 17:02:24 GMT -6 @keeniac said:

Perspective

What's even more egregious is that Matt Ryan is making $30M a year now and he's not even that good, definitely a few steps down from Rodgers. Despite having Julio and a passable O-line they've been awful... Steve Sarkisian has been a terrible OC, worse than DeFilippo, but they somehow haven't fired him yet.

We did see that the 6 highest paid QBs are all in position to not bring their teams to the playoffs except for the Vikings...

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Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread Dec 12, 2018 21:01:03 GMT -6 Reignman and Funkytown like this

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Post by EricTheViking on Dec 12, 2018 21:01:03 GMT -6

Dec 12, 2018 19:26:25 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Dec 12, 2018 17:02:24 GMT -6 @keeniac said:

Perspective

. . .
We did see that the 6 highest paid QBs are all in position to not bring their teams to the playoffs except for the Vikings...

Yeah that certainly is an interesting fact. And this is assuming the Vikings even make the playoffs. Maybe, in regards to quarterback salaries, we are seeing a bubble. One that is about to burst

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Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread Dec 13, 2018 11:37:48 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

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Post by purplectic on Dec 13, 2018 11:37:48 GMT -6

Dec 12, 2018 12:01:51 GMT -6 Purple Pain said:

Dec 12, 2018 5:41:55 GMT -6 purplectic said:

You need to take into account that those Redskins teams he carried sucked. It's none too evident when they have to trot out a 3rd string QB and see what the team can do against a Giants team with a losing record that let up after running out to a 40-0 lead without their best player. Stats don't tell the entire story. Kirk didn't play bad against the Rams, Saints and did all he could against Seattle for the Vikes in primetime. It's not all on him...there are 22 players and coaches included.

Fair. It's not all on him, but he's been part of the offensive struggles.

You say that he carried the Redskins teams, so why aren't we seeing more wins? If he can "carry" a bad team in Washington and keep them average, what's going on here? We could use some carrying!

If you're going to compare last year's Redskins to this year's Redskins, then wouldn't it be fair to compare last year's Vikings to this year's? Cousins was handed a 13-3 team. Yes, some things changed, but the fact is, he was handed a very good football team. Why isn't he getting it done here when he supposedly was in Washington?

You're right. Stats don't tell the whole story. But this is why we should use advanced statistics a bit more and consider overall efficiency compared to volume stats. Who cares about 4000 yds and 25 tds when we aren't winning football games? Someone on the outside looking in could say, "Cousins had a good year, so he can't be the issue there in Minnesota." But how many of those yards and TDs are from the 4th quarter when the game is already out of reach because it was straight-trash-homie for the first 3 quarters?

Cousins has had one good game in the last five. Football in November and December matters a great deal if you want to play in January. He absolutely needs to do better. The same goes for the rest of the offense.

We can also compare last year's Vikings team with this one. One that allows 7 points more per game from defense than last year. One that runs far less (#12 overall to what, 30 now?). And look at Case Keenum today. Was he an aberration or benefitting from better play-calling and defense? He's got a 15/10 ratio this year. A lot of ways to approach this. All I know is that Kirk was cruising early and now that the offense is in a rut with the running game near zero and the protection falling apart that some here point the finger at the QB. If it's true, I'd like to know how/why. There aren't many more consistent throwers in the league. If you can't win with a 4.5K passer with very decent ration of TD/INT (24/9) who has proven durable (a big deal here) then something's amiss especially with the reputation and talent on the other side of the ball. I don't claim to know the answers here but to mindlessly point the finger at the QB is a bit lazy. I agree with you there.

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Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread Dec 13, 2018 12:13:57 GMT -6

Quote

Post by EricTheViking on Dec 13, 2018 12:13:57 GMT -6

Dec 13, 2018 11:37:48 GMT -6 purplectic said:

Dec 12, 2018 12:01:51 GMT -6 Purple Pain said:

Fair. It's not all on him, but he's been part of the offensive struggles.

You say that he carried the Redskins teams, so why aren't we seeing more wins? If he can "carry" a bad team in Washington and keep them average, what's going on here? We could use some carrying!

If you're going to compare last year's Redskins to this year's Redskins, then wouldn't it be fair to compare last year's Vikings to this year's? Cousins was handed a 13-3 team. Yes, some things changed, but the fact is, he was handed a very good football team. Why isn't he getting it done here when he supposedly was in Washington?

You're right. Stats don't tell the whole story. But this is why we should use advanced statistics a bit more and consider overall efficiency compared to volume stats. Who cares about 4000 yds and 25 tds when we aren't winning football games? Someone on the outside looking in could say, "Cousins had a good year, so he can't be the issue there in Minnesota." But how many of those yards and TDs are from the 4th quarter when the game is already out of reach because it was straight-trash-homie for the first 3 quarters?

Cousins has had one good game in the last five. Football in November and December matters a great deal if you want to play in January. He absolutely needs to do better. The same goes for the rest of the offense.

All I know is that Kirk was cruising early and now that the offense is in a rut with the running game near zero and the protection falling apart that some here point the finger at the QB. If it's true, I'd like to know how/why. There aren't many more consistent throwers in the league. If you can't win with a 4.5K passer with very decent ration of TD/INT (24/9) who has proven durable (a big deal here) then something's amiss especially with the reputation and talent on the other side of the ball.

I already told you why. As have others. Here's more:

Kirk Cousins takes blame for John Defilippo firing

Cousins: I take ownership of Vikings' offensive woes

"Myself, I'd be the first one to say, if I had played at a higher level, we're probably not talking about the things we're talking about," Cousins said Wednesday, via the Pioneer Press. "So I take ownership as well."

At least he's honest though I know some will say he's just saying that to say it because he's being a nice guy.

Last Edit: Dec 13, 2018 12:15:43 GMT -6 by EricTheViking

purplectic
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Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread Dec 14, 2018 21:36:23 GMT -6

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Post by purplectic on Dec 14, 2018 21:36:23 GMT -6

Dec 13, 2018 12:13:57 GMT -6 EricTheViking said:

Dec 13, 2018 11:37:48 GMT -6 purplectic said:

All I know is that Kirk was cruising early and now that the offense is in a rut with the running game near zero and the protection falling apart that some here point the finger at the QB. If it's true, I'd like to know how/why. There aren't many more consistent throwers in the league. If you can't win with a 4.5K passer with very decent ration of TD/INT (24/9) who has proven durable (a big deal here) then something's amiss especially with the reputation and talent on the other side of the ball.

I already told you why. As have others. Here's more:

Kirk Cousins takes blame for John Defilippo firing

Cousins: I take ownership of Vikings' offensive woes

"Myself, I'd be the first one to say, if I had played at a higher level, we're probably not talking about the things we're talking about," Cousins said Wednesday, via the Pioneer Press. "So I take ownership as well."

At least he's honest though I know some will say he's just saying that to say it because he's being a nice guy.

That explains nothing. It's just words related to accountability. Big deal. Bunch of tired clichés. It doesn't get to the root cause analysis.

You still haven't demonstrated why the pass protection has diminished with the same personnel and why Kirk's numbers have dropped. And claiming he's a choker doesn't cut it. That's lazy. Explain what has changed from the first half of the season when he was throwing downfield with ease to now. Really direct and simple question. I don't know myself which is why I ask. Patting yourself on the back isn't really an answer.

I have thrown out the missing David Morgan's blocking prowess could be related to the lack of running and the timing of the offensive struggles does align with this but I don't know for certain. Maybe not enough outlets to the TE and RB out of the backfield. Throw me a bone.

Purple Pain Hall of Fame Nominee Posts: 8,673 Likes: 2,848	Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread Dec 14, 2018 21:55:10 GMT -6 EricTheViking likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Purple Pain on Dec 14, 2018 21:55:10 GMT -6

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Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread Dec 14, 2018 23:30:29 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by Reignman on Dec 14, 2018 23:30:29 GMT -6

The most passing attempts in a season through 13 games since 2002:

 RK  YEAR                    CMP  ATT   PCT   YDS   AVG  TD INT  SK  YDS  1ST RATING
  1. 2012 Matthew Stafford   350  579  60.4  4004  6.92  17  12  26  173  219   82.4
  2. 2010 Peyton Manning     378  569  66.4  4028  7.08  26  15  14   78  217   91.2
  3. 2016 Joe Flacco         358  549  65.2  3582  6.52  17  12  25  275  168   84.8
  4. 2018 Ben Roethlisberger 366  546  67.0  4184  7.66  28  13  18  132  204   97.0
     2002 Rich Gannon        376  546  68.9  4205  7.70  23   9  26  154  196   98.7
  6. 2014 Andrew Luck        337  544  61.9  4305  7.91  36  13  24  150  212   98.8
  7. 2011 Drew Brees         385  543  70.9  4368  8.04  32  11  23  150  217  105.9
  8. 2016 Drew Brees         382  541  70.6  4184  7.73  30  14  20  137  214  100.9
  9. 2015 Philip Rivers      359  540  66.5  3976  7.36  23  10  35  230  190   94.6
 10. 2013 Peyton Manning     366  539  67.9  4522  8.39  45   9  15   96  241  114.5
 11. 2014 Drew Brees         373  538  69.3  3983  7.40  28  12  20  120  205   98.8
 12. 2015 Tom Brady          345  537  64.2  4138  7.71  33   6  32  194  202  103.6
     2012 Andrew Luck        295  537  54.9  3792  7.06  18  18  32  202  183   74.5
 14. 2012 Drew Brees         330  535  61.7  4025  7.52  32  18  23  177  208   90.8
 15. 2012 Carson Palmer      324  533  60.8  3805  7.14  22  14  26  199  177   85.3
 16. 2018 Andrew Luck        358  530  67.5  3742  7.06  34  13  16  125  196   99.0
 17. 2012 Tony Romo          349  526  66.3  3928  7.47  20  16  31  224  187   88.5
 18. 2013 Matthew Stafford   306  525  58.3  3973  7.57  27  14  15  103  190   88.2
     2013 Matt Ryan          344  525  65.5  3665  6.98  21  13  31  224  188   88.8
 20. 2010 Drew Brees         361  524  68.9  3850  7.35  28  18  18  142  195   93.6
     2018 Kirk Cousins       370  524  70.6  3698  7.06  24   9  32  226  193   98.4  <---
 22. 2013 Tom Brady          318  523  60.8  3685  7.05  21   9  36  235  193   88.3
 23. 2016 Blake Bortles      305  520  58.7  3187  6.13  21  15  28  166  174   77.9
 24. 2013 Drew Brees         353  519  68.0  4107  7.91  33   8  26  171  197  106.5
     2007 Drew Brees         352  519  67.8  3504  6.75  23  15  10   73  184   89.5

Cousins isn't even #1 in 2018 haha. He's #3.

Other Vikings through the first 13 games:

 RK  YEAR                    CMP  ATT   PCT   YDS   AVG  TD INT  SK  YDS  1ST RATING
123. 2002 Daunte Culpepper   266  456  58.3  2959  6.49  14  20  37  176  148   69.7
320. 2003 Daunte Culpepper   233  363  64.2  2769  7.63  20   8  32  165  122   96.5
136. 2004 Daunte Culpepper   311  447  69.6  3729  8.34  31  10  37  171  187  108.6
     2005 Daunte Culpepper   139  216  64.4  1564  7.24   6  12  31  164   81   72.0
203. 2006 Brad Johnson       259  421  61.5  2642  6.28   9  15  26  167  131   71.8
     2007 Tarvaris Jackson   112  193  58.0  1263  6.54   6   7  13   39   65   73.0
419. 2008 Gus Frerotte       178  301  59.1  2157  7.17  12  15  29  166  102   73.7
171. 2009 Brett Favre        295  433  68.1  3341  7.72  27   6  27  189  174  106.0
347. 2010 Brett Favre        212  351  60.4  2446  6.97  10  18  21  128  111   69.6
     2011 Christian Ponder   132  237  55.7  1637  6.91  11  11  24  110   81   73.4
242. 2012 Christian Ponder   251  401  62.6  2396  5.98  14  12  27  149  135   78.3
     2013 Christian Ponder   152  239  63.6  1648  6.90   7   9  27  124   83   77.9
407. 2014 Teddy Bridgewater  192  310  61.9  2136  6.89  11   8  28  178  104   83.5
292. 2015 Teddy Bridgewater  249  382  65.2  2708  7.09   9   8  37  272  129   85.1
185. 2016 Sam Bradford       304  428  71.0  2954  6.90  14   3  28  221  149   98.0
238. 2017 Case Keenum        270  405  66.7  2983  7.37  18   7  15  122  154   95.9
 20. 2018 Kirk Cousins       370  524  70.6  3698  7.06  24   9  32  226  193   98.4
     Vikings average         231  359  64.3  2531  7.05  14  10  28  163  126   86.5

TEAM RECORDS                          COUSINS PACE
ATT      606 Warren Moon 1995              645 <--
CMP      395 Sam Bradford 2016             455 <--
PCT     71.6 Sam Bradford 2016            70.6
YDS     4717 Daunte Culpepper 2004        4551
AVG     8.71 Randall Cunningham 1998      7.06
TD        39 Daunte Culpepper 2004          30
TD%     8.02 Joe Kapp 1969                4.58
INT       32 Fran Tarkenton 1978            11
INT%    0.91 Sam Bradford 2016            1.72
SACK      47 Daunte Culpepper 2002          39
RATING 110.9 Daunte Culpepper 2004        98.4

Last Edit: Dec 14, 2018 23:31:26 GMT -6 by Reignman

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

EricTheViking
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Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread Dec 15, 2018 10:19:34 GMT -6 Funkytown, Oracle Bone Diviner, and 1 more like this

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Post by EricTheViking on Dec 15, 2018 10:19:34 GMT -6

Dec 14, 2018 21:36:23 GMT -6 purplectic said:

Dec 13, 2018 12:13:57 GMT -6 EricTheViking said:

That explains nothing. It's just words related to accountability. Big deal. Bunch of tired clichés. It doesn't get to the root cause analysis.

You still haven't demonstrated why the pass protection has diminished with the same personnel and why Kirk's numbers have dropped. And claiming he's a choker doesn't cut it. That's lazy. Explain what has changed from the first half of the season when he was throwing downfield with ease to now. Really direct and simple question. I don't know myself which is why I ask. Patting yourself on the back isn't really an answer.

Clearly we aren't going to even begin to agree on this. You won't accept that a player can have mental blocks which impede his game even though, otherwise, he has tremendous talent.

I think he has a mental impediment. You don't. That's that I guess.

Bleacher Report. Posted 2 days ago (emphasis mine):

QB-Needy Teams, Listen Up: Beware the Next Kirk Cousins

"And Cousins, the free-agent flop of the year, has the Vikings firing coordinators in a flailing attempt to stay in the playoff chase."

From the Washington Post:

The Redskins-Cousins marriage of convenience is mercifully over

"The marriage of convenience is over, thankfully. Kirk Cousins has taken his good-not-great talents to the Minnesota Vikings, who are paying him to be great, not good. The Washington Redskins have moved on. . ."

Last Edit: Dec 15, 2018 10:39:36 GMT -6 by EricTheViking

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Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread Dec 15, 2018 10:30:43 GMT -6 Funkytown and Oracle Bone Diviner like this

Quote

Post by EricTheViking on Dec 15, 2018 10:30:43 GMT -6

Dec 14, 2018 21:36:23 GMT -6 purplectic said:

Dec 13, 2018 12:13:57 GMT -6 EricTheViking said:

That explains nothing. It's just words related to accountability. Big deal. Bunch of tired clichés. It doesn't get to the root cause analysis.

You still haven't demonstrated why the pass protection has diminished with the same personnel and why Kirk's numbers have dropped. . .

I have thrown out the missing David Morgan's blocking prowess could be related to the lack of running and the timing of the offensive struggles does align with this but I don't know for certain. Maybe not enough outlets to the TE and RB out of the backfield. Throw me a bone.

One more thing real quick because I didn't address this: I know there are certainly other blatant problems with the overall lack of offense lately. But I'm focusing on clear and obvious mistakes that Cousin's is making, all on his own, aside from anything else. Mistakes that are occurring far to often.

Last Edit: Dec 15, 2018 10:43:39 GMT -6 by EricTheViking

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Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread Dec 15, 2018 10:47:22 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

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Post by beckmt on Dec 15, 2018 10:47:22 GMT -6

I believe I can speak to this, as I come from a hobby sport that has a phycological component.
I have had a couple of high regional, low national players barred by their team captains from every playing against me. Captains did not like the result returned (one of them started when his partner was a player who has played on US National teams).
I had another person who in a stratomatic baseball league when I was with a girl friend at the time, wanted to play his home games at his house. One time he was to play me, he commented to just fill out and sent him the sheets, it was too painful.
These mental blocks do exist, the Vikings should have checked this out before they signed Cousins. Too late now, it will almost certainly cost Spielman his job if Cousins cannot fix this, and maybe also Zimmer will be gone before the end of the contract.

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Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread Dec 15, 2018 12:41:44 GMT -6 Funkytown and EricTheViking like this

Quote

Post by Oracle Bone Diviner on Dec 15, 2018 12:41:44 GMT -6

Dec 15, 2018 10:19:34 GMT -6 EricTheViking said:

Dec 14, 2018 21:36:23 GMT -6 purplectic said:

That explains nothing. It's just words related to accountability. Big deal. Bunch of tired clichés. It doesn't get to the root cause analysis.

You still haven't demonstrated why the pass protection has diminished with the same personnel and why Kirk's numbers have dropped. And claiming he's a choker doesn't cut it. That's lazy. Explain what has changed from the first half of the season when he was throwing downfield with ease to now. Really direct and simple question. I don't know myself which is why I ask. Patting yourself on the back isn't really an answer.

Clearly we aren't going to even begin to agree on this. You won't accept that a player can have mental blocks which impede his game even though, otherwise, he has tremendous talent.

I think he has a mental impediment. You don't. That's that I guess.

Bleacher Report. Posted 2 days ago (emphasis mine):

QB-Needy Teams, Listen Up: Beware the Next Kirk Cousins

"And Cousins, the free-agent flop of the year, has the Vikings firing coordinators in a flailing attempt to stay in the playoff chase."

From the Washington Post:

The Redskins-Cousins marriage of convenience is mercifully over

"The marriage of convenience is over, thankfully. Kirk Cousins has taken his good-not-great talents to the Minnesota Vikings, who are paying him to be great, not good. The Washington Redskins have moved on. . ."

Before the season started I questioned whether he had what it takes to move from a no-expectations team with modest contract to a win-it-all-now expectations team with a huge contract. I don't know about the rest of you, but I perform worse under the microscope and high expectations. Some people can do it, and the ones that can are a great find. I still haven't written him off but its not looking like he's one of those who can. If he is, he has 3 games to prove it to me and he has to prove it in all 3.

There's a ringing in my ear and I think it's the Call of the Wild

itinerant, noun; a person who works and wanders.

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Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread Dec 15, 2018 13:12:56 GMT -6

Quote

Post by purplectic on Dec 15, 2018 13:12:56 GMT -6

Dec 15, 2018 10:30:43 GMT -6 EricTheViking said:

Dec 14, 2018 21:36:23 GMT -6 purplectic said:

That explains nothing. It's just words related to accountability. Big deal. Bunch of tired clichés. It doesn't get to the root cause analysis.

You still haven't demonstrated why the pass protection has diminished with the same personnel and why Kirk's numbers have dropped. . .

I have thrown out the missing David Morgan's blocking prowess could be related to the lack of running and the timing of the offensive struggles does align with this but I don't know for certain. Maybe not enough outlets to the TE and RB out of the backfield. Throw me a bone.

One more thing real quick because I didn't address this: I know there are certainly other blatant problems with the overall lack of offense lately. But I'm focusing on clear and obvious mistakes that Cousin's is making, all on his own, aside from anything else. Mistakes that are occurring far to often.

You clearly need to expand your focus. It's not all Cousins. Relevant discussion to root cause and I still have not seen you outline why he was successful and suddenly is not. We don't need to continue this merry-go-round. Getting absolutely nowhere.

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Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread Dec 15, 2018 13:14:00 GMT -6

Quote

Post by purplectic on Dec 15, 2018 13:14:00 GMT -6

Dec 15, 2018 10:19:34 GMT -6 EricTheViking said:

Dec 14, 2018 21:36:23 GMT -6 purplectic said:

That explains nothing. It's just words related to accountability. Big deal. Bunch of tired clichés. It doesn't get to the root cause analysis.

You still haven't demonstrated why the pass protection has diminished with the same personnel and why Kirk's numbers have dropped. And claiming he's a choker doesn't cut it. That's lazy. Explain what has changed from the first half of the season when he was throwing downfield with ease to now. Really direct and simple question. I don't know myself which is why I ask. Patting yourself on the back isn't really an answer.

Clearly we aren't going to even begin to agree on this. You won't accept that a player can have mental blocks which impede his game even though, otherwise, he has tremendous talent.

I think he has a mental impediment. You don't. That's that I guess.

Bleacher Report. Posted 2 days ago (emphasis mine):

QB-Needy Teams, Listen Up: Beware the Next Kirk Cousins

"And Cousins, the free-agent flop of the year, has the Vikings firing coordinators in a flailing attempt to stay in the playoff chase."

From the Washington Post:

The Redskins-Cousins marriage of convenience is mercifully over

"The marriage of convenience is over, thankfully. Kirk Cousins has taken his good-not-great talents to the Minnesota Vikings, who are paying him to be great, not good. The Washington Redskins have moved on. . ."

Media opinion provides proof for you, huh? Sad.