Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million)

Minniman
Moderator

Posts: 13,636

Likes: 8,134

Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 1, 2018 9:47:48 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Minniman on Mar 1, 2018 9:47:48 GMT -6

Mar 1, 2018 9:12:42 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Mar 1, 2018 7:01:25 GMT -6 Minniman said:

Is that a given? The NFL may go the other way, and the Vikings could end up like the Wild and be in cap purgatory for several years for a quarterback that has won nothing up to this point.

Looking at past trends, the cap is going to keep increasing but $10M a year sounds too high to me. At this point I'm not worried about salary cap hell if they sign Cousins - it would take multiple bad deals on top of the Cousins to suffocate the cap and their guy who manages payroll, Rob Brzezinski, has been noted by several sources to be one of the best cap managers in the NFL.

By my viewpoint, signing Cousins to a massive deal only infringes on one thing for the Vikings - signing top FAs at other positions. They have room to extend their own guys and already have some under contract cheap (look at Thielen's deal!). Only problem is if you want to add guys like Andrew Norwell for big bucks, it'll be hard to squeeze them onto the roster.

But that is just what the Wild did, and now they are in mediocrity purgatory until the two albatross contracts are off the books.

Diggs contract is coming due, and don't be surprised if Thielen threatens to hold out before his contract is done. I am not against bringing in a player like Cousins, but I don't believe the hype, and I am not willing to destroy the future of this team for one player that is not a Hall of Fame elite quarterback.

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

Danchat
Content Creator

Posts: 19,021

Likes: 16,602

Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 1, 2018 10:08:58 GMT -6 TAFKASP likes this

Quote

Post by Danchat on Mar 1, 2018 10:08:58 GMT -6

Mar 1, 2018 9:47:48 GMT -6 Minniman said:

Mar 1, 2018 9:12:42 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Looking at past trends, the cap is going to keep increasing but $10M a year sounds too high to me. At this point I'm not worried about salary cap hell if they sign Cousins - it would take multiple bad deals on top of the Cousins to suffocate the cap and their guy who manages payroll, Rob Brzezinski, has been noted by several sources to be one of the best cap managers in the NFL.

By my viewpoint, signing Cousins to a massive deal only infringes on one thing for the Vikings - signing top FAs at other positions. They have room to extend their own guys and already have some under contract cheap (look at Thielen's deal!). Only problem is if you want to add guys like Andrew Norwell for big bucks, it'll be hard to squeeze them onto the roster.

But that is just what the Wild did, and now they are in mediocrity purgatory until the two albatross contracts are off the books.

Diggs contract is coming due, and don't be surprised if Thielen threatens to hold out before his contract is done. I am not against bringing in a player like Cousins, but I don't believe the hype, and I am not willing to destroy the future of this team for one player that is not a Hall of Fame elite quarterback.

I think there's a big enough difference between the potential Cousins deal and both Ryan Suter and Zach Parise deals which are 13 years (!!) for $98M total and 100% of both deals are guaranteed. That's $15M a season for a full 13 years and with the Wild's cap at $73M, that's a pretty big constraint. Cousins maybe gets 3 or 4 years at most fully guaranteed.

I cannot see a single deal "destroying the future of this team". Even if the team is constrained by salary limitations, it will be important to continue to draft well in the next few years as getting good players for cheap will be crucial. And it's possible if the defense declines after a Cousins deal it's more due to bad drafting then not being able to spend.

beckmt
Hall of Fame Inductee

Posts: 12,218

Likes: 1,584

Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 1, 2018 10:51:29 GMT -6

Quote

Post by beckmt on Mar 1, 2018 10:51:29 GMT -6

Mar 1, 2018 10:08:58 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Mar 1, 2018 9:47:48 GMT -6 Minniman said:

But that is just what the Wild did, and now they are in mediocrity purgatory until the two albatross contracts are off the books.

Diggs contract is coming due, and don't be surprised if Thielen threatens to hold out before his contract is done. I am not against bringing in a player like Cousins, but I don't believe the hype, and I am not willing to destroy the future of this team for one player that is not a Hall of Fame elite quarterback.

I think there's a big enough difference between the potential Cousins deal and both Ryan Suter and Zach Parise deals which are 13 years (!!) for $98M total and 100% of both deals are guaranteed. That's $15M a season for a full 13 years and with the Wild's cap at $73M, that's a pretty big constraint. Cousins maybe gets 3 or 4 years at most fully guaranteed.

I cannot see a single deal "destroying the future of this team". Even if the team is constrained by salary limitations, it will be important to continue to draft well in the next few years as getting good players for cheap will be crucial. And it's possible if the defense declines after a Cousins deal it's more due to bad drafting then not being able to spend.

Top flight defensive talent cost money. If you pay Cousins in year 2 or 3 of the deal, you start shedding defensive talent. Starting with Barr.

Deleted
Ghosted Member

Posts: 0
Likes:

Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 1, 2018 11:01:50 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2018 11:01:50 GMT -6

Mar 1, 2018 10:51:29 GMT -6 beckmt said:

Mar 1, 2018 10:08:58 GMT -6 Danchat said:

I think there's a big enough difference between the potential Cousins deal and both Ryan Suter and Zach Parise deals which are 13 years (!!) for $98M total and 100% of both deals are guaranteed. That's $15M a season for a full 13 years and with the Wild's cap at $73M, that's a pretty big constraint. Cousins maybe gets 3 or 4 years at most fully guaranteed.

I cannot see a single deal "destroying the future of this team". Even if the team is constrained by salary limitations, it will be important to continue to draft well in the next few years as getting good players for cheap will be crucial. And it's possible if the defense declines after a Cousins deal it's more due to bad drafting then not being able to spend.

Top flight defensive talent cost money. If you pay Cousins in year 2 or 3 of the deal, you start shedding defensive talent. Starting with Barr.

They can front load the contract this year so all of your worries about not signing Barr, Kendricks, etc. are alleviated.

Deleted
Ghosted Member

Posts: 0
Likes:

Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 1, 2018 11:12:13 GMT -6 via mobile Reignman likes this

Quote

Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2018 11:12:13 GMT -6

Mar 1, 2018 7:28:29 GMT -6 Minniman said:

Mar 1, 2018 6:27:50 GMT -6 James said:

Yes he is worth it. We need him and he needs us. I think for atleast 28 mill a year, that seems fair. No higher than that though.

Kirk Cousins 2017 season:

Passing TD 8th

Passing Int 21st-26th (tied for 7th worst)

Passing Int % - outside of top 10

YPA 9th

Adjusted YPA - outside of top 10

Net YPA - outside of top 10

Net Adjusted YPA - outside of top 10

Passing % 9th

Passer Rating 12th

Kirk Cousins 2016 season:

Passing TD 13th

Passing Int 15th-16th (tied for 15th worst)

Passing Int % - outside of top 10

YPA 3rd

Adjusted YPA - 4th-5th (tied)

Net YPA - 3rd

Net Adjusted YPA - 4th

Passing % 8th

Passer Rating 7th

The questions are:

Does this player deserve top three money in the NFL?

Is he a good starter, or is he elite?

Is he top 10; is he top 5?

What could he be with the Vikings?

How do those numbers look compared to Keenum, Teddy, and Bradford?

We're starting to see the market being set for QBs around the league, so Cousins price tag today doesn't bother me. It appears if you're a top 15 QB you're getting at $24+ million.

By the time other extension candidates come around like Rodgers, Ryan, Wentz he'll be paid like a top 10 QB.

Deleted
Ghosted Member

Posts: 0
Likes:

Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 1, 2018 11:52:52 GMT -6 via mobile Reignman and Danchat like this

Quote

Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2018 11:52:52 GMT -6

Worst case scenario is we sign Case for one year and he regresses. If next year's draft is weak we may have no 2019 options. Cousins has been consistent and healthy. Possibly the only three to five year option we currently have. QBs will only continue to get more expensive. His contract may look like a bargain in three years.

twinssouth
Bench Warmer

Posts: 312

Likes: 257

Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 1, 2018 12:53:09 GMT -6 beckmt likes this

Quote

Post by twinssouth on Mar 1, 2018 12:53:09 GMT -6

The thing that I keep coming back to is why did the Skins franchise tag Cousins not once but twice? Did they try to sign him to a long term deal and he turned it down or they weren't sure he was the QB of the future, so they kept him on 1 yr "Tag" deals for him to prove it or relationship went south and Cousins wanted out. The term Franchise tag should apply to the teams best or better player. Something here doesn't add up

If Skins were 100% sold on Cousins, they would of had a deal done by now, instead they traded for A Smith. Are they not sold on Cousins?

Both my son and son in law see Cousins as an average QB, I'm beginning to think this too. Any enlightment on this unique situation would be greatly appreciated.

Danchat
Content Creator

Posts: 19,021

Likes: 16,602

Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 1, 2018 14:18:13 GMT -6 Reignman, twinssouth, and 1 more like this

Quote

Post by Danchat on Mar 1, 2018 14:18:13 GMT -6

Mar 1, 2018 12:53:09 GMT -6 twinssouth said:

The thing that I keep coming back to is why did the Skins franchise tag Cousins not once but twice? Did they try to sign him to a long term deal and he turned it down or they weren't sure he was the QB of the future, so they kept him on 1 yr "Tag" deals for him to prove it or relationship went south and Cousins wanted out. The term Franchise tag should apply to the teams best or better player. Something here doesn't add up

If Skins were 100% sold on Cousins, they would of had a deal done by now, instead they traded for A Smith. Are they not sold on Cousins?

Both my son and son in law see Cousins as an average QB, I'm beginning to think this too. Any enlightment on this unique situation would be greatly appreciated.

I'm going to go on a little dig on what exactly has been going on with this situation:

2017 Offseason:

A source with knowledge of the situation told Profootballtalk.com that "internal disagreement exists" within the Redskins' organization "regarding (Kirk) Cousins' actual value."

"Internal disagreement" has existed in Washington's front office regarding Cousins' value for several years, and the leaks are coming out now with just days left before the deadline for teams to sign franchise-tagged players long term. Per Bleacher Report's Jason Cole, ex-Redskins GM Scot McCloughan "wanted to give Cousins a contract extension before 2015," but the "front office declined." The "front office" was/is Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen, who have messed this up from the get go and appear to be in no rush for a resolution.

NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reports the Redskins made their best contract offer to franchise-tagged Kirk Cousins in May.

The offer was up from the ridiculous $20 million per year Washington had been offering, but the annual average still fell short of the $24 million Cousins will earn this year on the tag and only contained two guaranteed years, according to Pelissero. These details show the Redskins were not serious about signing Cousins to a long-term deal, so it is not surprising he seems more than happy to play out this season under the terms of the tag.

Although Cousins' camp leaked word Sunday that they are open to a long-term deal with Washington after the season, no one behind the scenes buys that Cousins wants to stay in D.C. at all.

In a public statement, the Redskins placed the blame squarely on franchise player Kirk Cousins' camp for the sides' inability to reach a long-term agreement by Monday's 4pm ET deadline.

CBS' Jason La Canfora reports "those close" to Kirk Cousins viewed the Redskins' release of their supposed contract offer as "bush league and unnecessary."

As a summary, it seems the Redskins have low-balled Cousins for the past couple seasons for a long term deal and Kirk grew tired of these unrealistic deals. Seeing former GM Scott McCloughan ousted in a power struggle and having an inept new front office take over also irked him. Washington is reeking of dysfunction and he wants to get out of there. For what it's worth, this new front office of Snyder/Allen didn't think Cousins was worth the money, so maybe that's the answer you where looking for.

twinssouth
Bench Warmer

Posts: 312

Likes: 257

Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 1, 2018 14:30:46 GMT -6

Quote

Post by twinssouth on Mar 1, 2018 14:30:46 GMT -6

Really good stuff, much appreciated. Really clears the air and helps understand what both parties felt. What I felt most disturbing is Skins leaking to the press a offer that hasn't been agreed to by the player. Negotiations should be kept private.

twinssouth Bench Warmer Posts: 312 Likes: 257	Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 1, 2018 14:33:39 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by twinssouth on Mar 1, 2018 14:33:39 GMT -6 On even further thought, I don't blame the player for wanting out. Awesome work, Danchat

James
Franchise Player

Posts: 3,328

Likes: 2,409

Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 1, 2018 14:34:37 GMT -6 TAFKASP likes this

Quote

Post by James on Mar 1, 2018 14:34:37 GMT -6

Mar 1, 2018 11:52:52 GMT -6 @norsemanjack said:

Worst case scenario is we sign Case for one year and he regresses. If next year's draft is weak we may have no 2019 options. Cousins has been consistent and healthy. Possibly the only three to five year option we currently have. QBs will only continue to get more expensive. His contract may look like a bargain in three years.

Somebody who gets it, finally. I mean I understand Cousins is no Rodgers, Brees, or Brady but he is ceiling is still high and he's the best you can ask for in the terms of a FA QB. Because FA QBs of even his caliber do not come around often. All of your elite to close to elite QBs are going to stay under contract with their teams. Statically Cousins has consistently put up good numbers compared to the 3 we had last season. And yes the QB spot will get more expensive over the years. It is the most important position on the team. Something the Vikings lost sight of since Fran Tarkenton. lol Which is sad.

One of the main reasons, we should want Cousins is because he gives us consistency at the QB position. I for one am tired of changing QBs every 2-3 years. Neither Bradford, Keenum, and Teddy could provide atleast two 16 game seasons. Cousins provided three consistent 16 game seasons. Over 4000 yards, and over 25+ TDs in those 3 seasons. Imagine what the Vikings could do with a QB who can throw 4000 yards and 25+ TDs a season. And some fans are saying he's not worth it? You gotta be kidding. I guess fans just rather keep going through average to below average QBs every 2-3 years, coming up short of the playoffs or the super bowl each season.

Funkytown
Owner

Purple Pain Big Dog

Posts: 67,623

Likes: 31,546
Fan Since: 1998
Member is Online

Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 1, 2018 20:12:22 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Funkytown on Mar 1, 2018 20:12:22 GMT -6

Several agents who don’t represent Cousins but who have knowledge of the upcoming market for quarterbacks said they consider the Vikings the favorite to sign Cousins, who’s eligible for unrestricted free agency after three straight 4,000-yard passing seasons for the Washington Redskins.

An executive with one NFL team expected to be in the market for a quarterback said he also expects Cousins to pick the Vikings.

“We think he’ll end up in Minnesota,” that executive said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because Cousins technically is not available at this point.

Link: www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2018/03/01/vikings-emerge-as-favorites-to-land-kirk-cousins-at-nfl-combine/?utm_term=.19544ed79c34

Funkytown
Owner

Purple Pain Big Dog

Posts: 67,623

Likes: 31,546
Fan Since: 1998
Member is Online

Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 1, 2018 20:16:05 GMT -6 Danchat likes this

Quote

Post by Funkytown on Mar 1, 2018 20:16:05 GMT -6

Go for it: Kirk Cousins, Vikings pairing is perfect move for both sides - Souhan

Once again, Vikings General Manager Rick Spielman is taking a risk. The safest route available to him was placing the franchise tag on Keenum, ensuring he would retain the services of a popular starting quarterback for the 2018 season.

Instead, Spielman appears to be gambling that he can either improve on Keenum, or bring him back on a deal that would benefit the Vikings more than the one-year, approximately $24 million contract he would get under the terms of a franchise tag.

In Spielman’s profession, gambling gets you fired. But so do bland moves, or any combination of aggressiveness and passiveness that doesn’t lead to the playoffs.

Give him credit. Spielman has won with many of his gambles.

Percy Harvin, Everson Griffen and Dalvin Cook were considered character risks coming out of college. Harvin performed well before bringing value in a trade, Griffen is a star and Cook might have become the rookie of the year had he remained healthy last season.

And when it comes to quarterbacks, Spielman has learned that “safe” can be a synonym for “bland.”

Christian Ponder was a safe pick. He was athletic, intelligent and likable and played for an excellent program. None of that mattered. He couldn’t keep his job.

Think Spielman won’t move aggressively to sign Cousins?

Remember what Spielman did about 18 months ago. He made a move nobody expected, trading for Sam Bradford just before the start of the 2016 season.

And if Spielman’s offensive line had held up that season, or Bradford’s knee had held up in 2017, Bradford would be the Vikings quarterback of the present and future.

Spielman is aggressive in a specific manner. He wants to win a Super Bowl. He is not willing to settle for an inspirational season, a great playoff moment, and a ticket to the NFC Championship Game.

Is Cousins better than Keenum? Maybe.

Is Cousins more of a sure thing than Keenum? Absolutely.

Link: www.startribune.com/go-for-it-kirk-cousins-vikings-pairing-is-perfect-move-for-both-sides/475332493/

beckmt
Hall of Fame Inductee

Posts: 12,218

Likes: 1,584

Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 1, 2018 20:38:39 GMT -6

Quote

Post by beckmt on Mar 1, 2018 20:38:39 GMT -6

Mar 1, 2018 20:16:05 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Go for it: Kirk Cousins, Vikings pairing is perfect move for both sides - Souhan

Once again, Vikings General Manager Rick Spielman is taking a risk. The safest route available to him was placing the franchise tag on Keenum, ensuring he would retain the services of a popular starting quarterback for the 2018 season.

Instead, Spielman appears to be gambling that he can either improve on Keenum, or bring him back on a deal that would benefit the Vikings more than the one-year, approximately $24 million contract he would get under the terms of a franchise tag.

In Spielman’s profession, gambling gets you fired. But so do bland moves, or any combination of aggressiveness and passiveness that doesn’t lead to the playoffs.

Give him credit. Spielman has won with many of his gambles.

Percy Harvin, Everson Griffen and Dalvin Cook were considered character risks coming out of college. Harvin performed well before bringing value in a trade, Griffen is a star and Cook might have become the rookie of the year had he remained healthy last season.

And when it comes to quarterbacks, Spielman has learned that “safe” can be a synonym for “bland.”

Christian Ponder was a safe pick. He was athletic, intelligent and likable and played for an excellent program. None of that mattered. He couldn’t keep his job.

Think Spielman won’t move aggressively to sign Cousins?

Remember what Spielman did about 18 months ago. He made a move nobody expected, trading for Sam Bradford just before the start of the 2016 season.

And if Spielman’s offensive line had held up that season, or Bradford’s knee had held up in 2017, Bradford would be the Vikings quarterback of the present and future.

Spielman is aggressive in a specific manner. He wants to win a Super Bowl. He is not willing to settle for an inspirational season, a great playoff moment, and a ticket to the NFC Championship Game.

Is Cousins better than Keenum? Maybe.

Is Cousins more of a sure thing than Keenum? Absolutely.

Link: www.startribune.com/go-for-it-kirk-cousins-vikings-pairing-is-perfect-move-for-both-sides/475332493/

Cousins is looking to be the highest paid QB in the NFL. Everything I see says he will be taking visits(probably while waiting for Rodgers to sign and maybe Brees too), before he can get to his goal. Not here hopefully. Zimmer that I have seen has made 2 comments
1. He does not want his defense to be shortchanged.
2. Picking the wrong QB will probably end up with Zimmer being fired.

Do not see how Cousins fits in here with these parameters.

Deleted
Ghosted Member

Posts: 0
Likes:

Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 1, 2018 20:38:49 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

Quote

Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2018 20:38:49 GMT -6

The one guy in the Vikings building who should know Kirk Cousins inside out is Flip.He has seen him first hand playing in the same division.
One of the main reasons Rick went after Bradford was the fact that Shurmur had worked with Sam and gave the thumbs up.

I have no doubt that Flip would have torn Cousins game tape apart and analysed it closely,so if it's Cousins we get then I'll run with it because I trust Flip more than I trust Rick when it comes to selecting QB's