Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million)

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Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 11, 2018 22:53:57 GMT -6 Danchat likes this

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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 22:53:57 GMT -6

Mar 11, 2018 22:43:29 GMT -6 vikecycle said:

Mar 11, 2018 12:41:16 GMT -6 @norsemanjack said:

I don't know what kind of money they're going to get. You don't know what kind of money they're going to get. Nobody knows what kind of money they're going to get. The market will determine that beginning tomorrow. It will be fun to watch.

Others have ran numbers that suggest signing Cousins will not prevent us from retaining all of our pieces going forward. Rick has managed this well and gotten us in a great position, knowing we would eventually have to pay franchise QB money to somebody. The key enabler, in my opinion, is the fact that we've done so well in recent drafts (Treadwell not withstanding). Because of their low cost and motivation to get paid, the second and later choices who work out are in several respects better than a first rounder who doesn't absolutely excel. I think Belichek figured this out before anybody. If it wasn't for our desperate need at G, I wouldn't mind seeing us trade out of the first round this year for a second and third. Unfortunately, we need Price, Hernandez or Wynn; and they'll all be gone at or soon after our pick (hopefully not before).

Ok, noone has ran numbers suggesting we won't lose most of our prices going forward.

Structuring the contract right can kick the can down the road, but signing Cousins means cap wise we are going have to let alot of talent go sooner or later.

I believe that you are mistaken. I don't have it at my fingertips, but analyses have been posted that demonstrate how we can easily extend Diggs, Kendricks, Hunter and Barr without any issues. This is at current market rates for guaranteed money. Funky posted a link to a blog that I believe was written by one of our new forum members. Maybe somebody else can post a link. The analysis demonstrated that we have the money to do this without significant future liabilities. Sorry, I just don't have the link right now.

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Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 11, 2018 23:12:48 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikecycle on Mar 11, 2018 23:12:48 GMT -6

Mar 11, 2018 22:53:57 GMT -6 @norsemanjack said:

Mar 11, 2018 22:43:29 GMT -6 vikecycle said:

Ok, noone has ran numbers suggesting we won't lose most of our prices going forward.

Structuring the contract right can kick the can down the road, but signing Cousins means cap wise we are going have to let alot of talent go sooner or later.

I believe that you are mistaken. I don't have it at my fingertips, but analyses have been posted that demonstrate how we can easily extend Diggs, Kendricks, Hunter and Barr without any issues. This is at current market rates for guaranteed money. Funky posted a link to a blog that I believe was written by one of our new forum members. Maybe somebody else can post a link. The analysis demonstrated that we have the money to do this without significant future liabilities. Sorry, I just don't have the link right now.

Yes, if we can structure correctly we can push the cap train down the road.

But we cannot avert it.

You realize how ridiculous it is to claim we can essentially just circumvent the cap salary, right? We can structure things to kick the can down the road, not avert it. This is simply the reality of the cap.

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Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 11, 2018 23:16:09 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 23:16:09 GMT -6

Mar 11, 2018 23:12:48 GMT -6 vikecycle said:

Mar 11, 2018 22:53:57 GMT -6 @norsemanjack said:

I believe that you are mistaken. I don't have it at my fingertips, but analyses have been posted that demonstrate how we can easily extend Diggs, Kendricks, Hunter and Barr without any issues. This is at current market rates for guaranteed money. Funky posted a link to a blog that I believe was written by one of our new forum members. Maybe somebody else can post a link. The analysis demonstrated that we have the money to do this without significant future liabilities. Sorry, I just don't have the link right now.

Yes, if we can structure correctly we can push the cap train down the road.

But we cannot avert it.

You realize how ridiculous it is to claim we can essentially just circumvent the cap salary, right? We can structure things to kick the can down the road, not avert it. This is simply the reality of the cap.

That's not what the numbers show. We are currently in fantastic shape cap wise and signing Cousins to a mega deal will drop us to good shape. Dang it, I wish I had the link. The only thing worse that being in bad cap shape because you have too many good players is that you're in great shape because you have no good players (ref: Cleveland and NYJ).

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Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 11, 2018 23:19:03 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikecycle on Mar 11, 2018 23:19:03 GMT -6

Mar 11, 2018 23:16:09 GMT -6 @norsemanjack said:

Mar 11, 2018 23:12:48 GMT -6 vikecycle said:

Yes, if we can structure correctly we can push the cap train down the road.

But we cannot avert it.

You realize how ridiculous it is to claim we can essentially just circumvent the cap salary, right? We can structure things to kick the can down the road, not avert it. This is simply the reality of the cap.

That's not what the numbers show. We are currently in fantastic shape cap wise and signing Cousins to a mega deal will drop us to good shape. Dang it, I wish I had the link. The only thing worse that being in bad cap shape because you have too many good players is that you're in great shape because you have no good players (ref: Cleveland and NYJ).

"That's not what the numbers show"

Your claiming that the numbers somehow show that we can circumvent the entire system of the salary cap?

I mean this respectfully, but no. You misunderstood the article you read. You pay it you cap it.

If we give Cousins top 3 QB money, we are eventually going to lose alot of surrounding talent due to decreased cap space. Yes, we can structure it as to push that issue farther down the road, but we cannot avert the cap entirely, that is just complete silliness.

"Hey Hey! Cheer up!

Our Sich Riflemen came out, to a bloody fray

To free our fellow Ukrainians from the shackles of Moscow"

Deleted Ghosted Member Posts: 0 Likes:	Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 11, 2018 23:25:08 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 23:25:08 GMT -6 I think this is the post you are looking for @norsemanjack purplepainforums.com/post/46454/thread

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Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 11, 2018 23:27:56 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 23:27:56 GMT -6

Mar 11, 2018 23:19:03 GMT -6 vikecycle said:

Mar 11, 2018 23:16:09 GMT -6 @norsemanjack said:

That's not what the numbers show. We are currently in fantastic shape cap wise and signing Cousins to a mega deal will drop us to good shape. Dang it, I wish I had the link. The only thing worse that being in bad cap shape because you have too many good players is that you're in great shape because you have no good players (ref: Cleveland and NYJ).

"That's not what the numbers show"

Your claiming that the numbers somehow show that we can circumvent the entire system of the salary cap?

I mean this respectfully, but no. You misunderstood the article you read. You pay it you cap it.

If we give Cousins top 3 QB money, we are eventually going to lose alot of surrounding talent due to decreased cap space. Yes, we can structure it as to push that issue farther down the road, but we cannot avert the cap entirely, that is just complete silliness.

Of course you can't circumvent the salary cap system. You can either manage it wisely or stupidly. Rick has done the former. NFL salary cap is odd, in that if you "save" for future years, you earn negative interest. The value of a dollar saved is less next year than if you spent it today. We've saved a lot and this is a good time to spend.

vikecycle
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Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 11, 2018 23:33:37 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikecycle on Mar 11, 2018 23:33:37 GMT -6

Mar 11, 2018 23:27:56 GMT -6 @norsemanjack said:

Mar 11, 2018 23:19:03 GMT -6 vikecycle said:

"That's not what the numbers show"

Your claiming that the numbers somehow show that we can circumvent the entire system of the salary cap?

I mean this respectfully, but no. You misunderstood the article you read. You pay it you cap it.

If we give Cousins top 3 QB money, we are eventually going to lose alot of surrounding talent due to decreased cap space. Yes, we can structure it as to push that issue farther down the road, but we cannot avert the cap entirely, that is just complete silliness.

Of course you can't circumvent the salary cap system. You can either manage it wisely or stupidly. Rick has done the former. NFL salary cap is odd, in that if you "save" for future years, you earn negative interest. The value of a dollar saved is less next year than if you spent it today. We've saved a lot and this is a good time to spend.

Ok again, your idea that signing Cousins isn't going to at some point severely inhibit our ability to maintain our loaded defensive roster is just naive beyond all notion.

No, that's not how it works. It doesn't matter how much you insist so. You pay it, you CAP it. You obviously don't understand both the long term or short term effects on paying top 3 QB money, which makes me think you never applied any thought to the subject prior to the issue of us signing Cousins arose.

"Hey Hey! Cheer up!

Our Sich Riflemen came out, to a bloody fray

To free our fellow Ukrainians from the shackles of Moscow"

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Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 11, 2018 23:38:10 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 23:38:10 GMT -6

Mar 11, 2018 23:33:37 GMT -6 vikecycle said:

Mar 11, 2018 23:27:56 GMT -6 @norsemanjack said:

Of course you can't circumvent the salary cap system. You can either manage it wisely or stupidly. Rick has done the former. NFL salary cap is odd, in that if you "save" for future years, you earn negative interest. The value of a dollar saved is less next year than if you spent it today. We've saved a lot and this is a good time to spend.

Ok again, your idea that signing Cousins isn't going to at some point severely inhibit our ability to maintain our loaded defensive roster is just naive beyond all notion.

No, that's not how it works. It doesn't matter how much you insist so. You pay it, you CAP it. You obviously don't understand both the long term or short term effects on paying top 3 QB money, which makes me think you never applied any thought to the subject prior to the issue of us signing Cousins arose.

Wow. That's pretty harsh. I think if you review many of my recent forum posts you'll see ample evidence that I've given a lot of thought to the topic. "Naïve beyond all notion," really?

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Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 11, 2018 23:43:13 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 23:43:13 GMT -6

Mar 11, 2018 23:33:37 GMT -6 vikecycle said:

Mar 11, 2018 23:27:56 GMT -6 @norsemanjack said:

Of course you can't circumvent the salary cap system. You can either manage it wisely or stupidly. Rick has done the former. NFL salary cap is odd, in that if you "save" for future years, you earn negative interest. The value of a dollar saved is less next year than if you spent it today. We've saved a lot and this is a good time to spend.

Ok again, your idea that signing Cousins isn't going to at some point severely inhibit our ability to maintain our loaded defensive roster is just naive beyond all notion.

No, that's not how it works. It doesn't matter how much you insist so. You pay it, you CAP it. You obviously don't understand both the long term or short term effects on paying top 3 QB money, which makes me think you never applied any thought to the subject prior to the issue of us signing Cousins arose.

There have been several article posted on this sight and other Viking sights that clearly demonstrate that the Viking can afford that Cousins deal with the way the salary cap is increasing.One of those is posted near the beginning of this thread,a thread that Norseman has been actively engaged in since it was started a couple weeks ago.
I suggest that before you post,you read the entire thread and get a handle on the various points of view rather than call people out and say they have no idea what they are talking about.

vikecycle
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Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 11, 2018 23:51:26 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikecycle on Mar 11, 2018 23:51:26 GMT -6

Mar 11, 2018 23:43:13 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

Mar 11, 2018 23:33:37 GMT -6 vikecycle said:

Ok again, your idea that signing Cousins isn't going to at some point severely inhibit our ability to maintain our loaded defensive roster is just naive beyond all notion.

No, that's not how it works. It doesn't matter how much you insist so. You pay it, you CAP it. You obviously don't understand both the long term or short term effects on paying top 3 QB money, which makes me think you never applied any thought to the subject prior to the issue of us signing Cousins arose.

There have been several article posted on this sight and other Viking sights that clearly demonstrate that the Viking can afford that Cousins deal with the way the salary cap is increasing.One of those is posted near the beginning of this thread,a thread that Norseman has been actively engaged in since it was started a couple weeks ago.
I suggest that before you post,you read the entire thread and get a handle on the various points of view rather than call people out and say they have no idea what they are talking about.

(Facepalm)

I never said we couldn't *afford* it, rather that there is NO way. NONE. That we sign Cousins WITHOUT significantly hampering our ability to sign and retain core/star players later down the road. Which is true no matter how many don't like it. The best we can do is push the hot down the road by way of structuring.

Perhaps you should take your own advice and you would know this.

"Hey Hey! Cheer up!

Our Sich Riflemen came out, to a bloody fray

To free our fellow Ukrainians from the shackles of Moscow"

vikecycle
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Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 11, 2018 23:53:03 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikecycle on Mar 11, 2018 23:53:03 GMT -6

Mar 11, 2018 23:38:10 GMT -6 @norsemanjack said:

Mar 11, 2018 23:33:37 GMT -6 vikecycle said:

Ok again, your idea that signing Cousins isn't going to at some point severely inhibit our ability to maintain our loaded defensive roster is just naive beyond all notion.

No, that's not how it works. It doesn't matter how much you insist so. You pay it, you CAP it. You obviously don't understand both the long term or short term effects on paying top 3 QB money, which makes me think you never applied any thought to the subject prior to the issue of us signing Cousins arose.

Wow. That's pretty harsh. I think if you review many of my recent forum posts you'll see ample evidence that I've given a lot of thought to the topic. "Naïve beyond all notion," really?

I'm not saying your naive beyond all notion, but the idea that we sign a top 3 QB that doesn't severely inhibit our ability to alot cap room and money to other players down the road is.

"Hey Hey! Cheer up!

Our Sich Riflemen came out, to a bloody fray

To free our fellow Ukrainians from the shackles of Moscow"

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Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 12, 2018 5:57:27 GMT -6

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Post by Minniman on Mar 12, 2018 5:57:27 GMT -6

As in all economic transactions, a price in rents must be paid. The rents paid come with opportunity costs because funds are limited and are, in this case, capped.

Any rents paid that are above the normal convergence of supply and demand will incur greater opportunity costs. That is, if a football organization overpays for one player, they will have to underpay another or potentially forgo the opportunity to sign another player in the future. Being that the quarterback position often demands the highest rents, to overpay that position will incur higher opportunity costs than any other position.

That is the economics of it. Long term quarterbacks contracts are the greatest risk in the NFL.

Last Edit: Mar 12, 2018 6:22:00 GMT -6 by Minniman

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

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Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 12, 2018 6:34:37 GMT -6 via mobile Danchat likes this

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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 6:34:37 GMT -6

Mar 11, 2018 23:51:26 GMT -6 vikecycle said:

Mar 11, 2018 23:43:13 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

There have been several article posted on this sight and other Viking sights that clearly demonstrate that the Viking can afford that Cousins deal with the way the salary cap is increasing.One of those is posted near the beginning of this thread,a thread that Norseman has been actively engaged in since it was started a couple weeks ago.
I suggest that before you post,you read the entire thread and get a handle on the various points of view rather than call people out and say they have no idea what they are talking about.

(Facepalm)

I never said we couldn't *afford* it, rather that there is NO way. NONE. That we sign Cousins WITHOUT significantly hampering our ability to sign and retain core/star players later down the road. Which is true no matter how many don't like it. The best we can do is push the hot down the road by way of structuring.

Perhaps you should take your own advice and you would know this.

Could you map out the exact number you think the Vikings can afford at QB? And which players we're going to lose down the road because of signing Cousins?

Because I've seen plans on several websites outside of this one where the Vikings can afford every 'star' player and still pay Cousins $30 million a season.

Deleted Ghosted Member Posts: 0 Likes:	Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 12, 2018 7:05:33 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 7:05:33 GMT -6

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,627 Likes: 31,562 Fan Since: 1998	Is Kirk Cousins worth it? (3 years, $84 million) Mar 12, 2018 7:31:22 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Mar 12, 2018 7:31:22 GMT -6 Good news: